Hey Cindy

My beautiful Friend I wish you were here...I missed you,your tender loving so much... ~~tears~~
You are always in my mind... I hope you can feel me...

I feel and share your pain.

Lovely thread to remember an important member of the site and a lovely lady, Alfred.
I personally only got to know her through numerous emails and messages towards the end of her life but I came to understand how hard she fought day in and day out, how brave she was and how important this site and its members were to her.

To be honest, I thought this thread will be locked or deleted...
I posted this because I loved her and I wish she could give me some positive guidance right now like before,
because my life is falling apart...
Thank you guys for replying here... it means so much to me!!

I wish I had known Cindy better. She seemed like a courageous, strong, and lovable person. We have tragically lost some wonderful PnQ poets/friends, and it touches my heart when people here make an effort to remember or honor them. This is a moving post, and I am sorry for your pain.

I know what you mean Koan...I too wish she was
here right now with us...

missing you heaps Cindy.... :(

Cindy was the most manipulative member on this site....actually she was the most manipulative person I've ever came across...

Hellon, surely there's a line. Personal feuds aside, the lady is gone and she went through and overcame some immense struggles in her life. For all the joy and warmth that has been brought to this site recently - largely by you - I have to speak out against your post, not least because she is no longer here to defend herself. However, lessons learnt from past threads mean I won't say a thing more about this. Your view and mine and I'm sure we won't agree so my piece is said.

*she also has a son and sister who are members here, and so some consideration is due them I would think.

No one is without fault, but I found Cindy to be supportive and often straight to the heart with needed advice.

Seriously Hello, have you known Cindy personally and for how long!?
I don't think you have any right to say such things about her if you don't know her.
She is the most supportive and caring person and anyone who knows her
will not stand by watching you say such things.

Absolutely agree with Meena .No one has the right to speak so .Found Cindy to be the most loving and compassionate one.Going through such hardships she was there for one and all .......she touched my heart ......miss her immensely.

Going to try again. Cindy was not a manipulative person. Knew her over 9 years. She was kind and caring and always worried about the club members and site members. This is from Cindy and nothing that I made up. Hellon and Cindynhad some type of issue and Cindy refused to talk about it or gossip with others. She seemed to be very hurt over whatever transpired. I do hope this stops here. I have major medical issues and in last stages of the diseases. Stress saps my energy but I felt I must answer Hellons negative remark. It makes me sad that it has happened and I can imagine the remarks that will be made when I succumb to my diseases. LOL

Sweet Cindy has left us....lets just let go of past negative energy, please.

Lovely thread illu...

Cindy is dead and she cannot defend herself. Your comment is low, Hellon. Not only low, but unnecessary. I understand you think your opinion on Cindy is “the truth,” but there is nothing noble, helpful, or insightful about your post. Its pettiness serves only to pain others. Time to let go of the grudge.

Thanks guys for voicing your opinions!
It really hurt me reading that post from Hellon... and I was just about to post something that would banned me for good again..
It is easy to make her hypocrisy hurt, but we should punish her with kindness...
Im glad I didn't do it! I think Hellon wanted to instigate me, because that's what she does the best.. Maybe looking for a fight or whatever...

As Koan said...thank you all for coming in and voicing your opinion...

I don't know which of you to answer because some admit they didn't know Cindy very well while others ask how well I knew her. To the ones who didn't know her very well then what qualifies you to judge me for what I said? To the ones who ask how well I knew her..very well, probably better than those of you who even have to ask.

When you imply that it's not appropriate to speak badly of the dead well...Hitler's dead, does that mean I can't say he killed over 6 million jews?

Meena & Alfred...you thanked everyone for voicing their opinion but I assume that did not include me and yet, I am still entitled to one.

Sylvia....I really am sorry for your health problems and I hope you feel better soon.

Hellon, are you actually comparing speaking badly of Hitler in death to speaking ill of Cindy in hers? Hitler? This thread was started by someone who wanted to remember and acknowledge the impact Cindy had on their lives, and for those who felt the same to add something more. You are absolutely not entitled to gatecrash it with the negative poison you have done. I said I wouldn't say anymore but, quite frankly, I am astonished that you are missing what seems to be so clear to everyone else. I had you pegged as a woman who said what they felt, absolutely, but I also had you pegged as a woman who had the intelligence to realise where the limits lie. You have gone way beyond them and are entirely out of line. Please stop this as I think you may come to realise how offensive you are being. I say again, Cindy is not here to defend herself so in all good conscience, I believe you should leave it there.
I don't post this as an attack, just some well needed advice that I believe you should take from someone who has frequently come to regret going off the deep end.

*Coming back to this, I believe we are all in danger of absolutely shaming ourselves in getting involved in a mudslinging match on a thread that is dedicated to a lady who is no longer with us. I cannot emphasise that enough. Cindy is no longer here - what right do any of us have to debate her character now? I genuinely believe this has the potential to be the most damaging and shameful thread p n q has ever witnessed. Let's leave this here and only add if anyone has anything positive to add about Cindy, who gave so much to the site. Surely, for that alone, she deserves our complete respect as fellow p n q members.

I am not a person who judges others, all of us has flaws and in our life we cross paths with people that we hurt or taint the vision of who we are as a whole person.

My child is going to die soon, she has hurt several people in her 27 years....she knows that those people see her in a different light, but she and I are hopeful, that out of respect for the family and friends that love her as a whole person.... will refrain from public outcast and shaming.

Out of respect for Cindy's friends and family who mourn her passing, please stop.

First of all...heartfelt feelings for Mapple Tree's post above....God Bless You & Your Loved Ones...

Since Cindy passed...this is the first time that I am posting anything here (other than my club PR), I have stopped writing, have stopped even thinking about writing....it has taken a toll on me to even think about expressing myself in her absence.

Dear Hellon, You know who I am (not personally), but you know how close I have been to Cindy.....just out of respect of that...I hope I am not asking too much...can you please let her name stay in peace...PLEASE.

I know you both had differences, not all humans can go together in harmony...forget & forgive dear...atleast knowing that she is not here anymore but her family is...

No matter how many years since she is no longer here....I am still not able to express how I feel about her...will leave here abruptly please...sorry

Illumaniti....Cindy really loved you & talked a lot about your kiddo :)

This is overwhelming for me to talk with & about those golden days of life here...

Hey Hellon......I really have respect for you....& I am requesting you please...

Dear Hellon!
I’m not sure what’s going on in your life that makes you react this way, to find it so important to turn a simple remembrance thread into “this”
Personally, I believe no one is entitled to anything in life...
When I thanked ppl in this thread for their input I was not referring to you! How could I ??? Your words hurt me because I knew my Beautiful Friend!
She, unlike many others, has never asked me for any favour ever, and I was a moderator for a long time... And to compare her to Hitler, well that’s just lunatic! I know you for a very long time and I always cared about you and thought of you as great writer and maybe even a friend! If I ever offended you and that’s why you acting like this, please forgive me!! I know I was an *** holemany times... I’m a very passionate man and sometimes it gets me in trouble...

"Illumaniti....Cindy really loved you & talked a lot about your kiddo :)"

~smiles~ And she was always talking about you brother! My most vivid memory of her is when she talked to my girlfriend, she was just so happy for me, for us... I will never forget that day! ~tears~ Such a genuine, loving, caring lady she was!!!!!
And think about this! She has been struggling death for decades!!!!!! She was and always be an inspiration to me because if i would have to wear her shoes, i would be a miserable prick , probably full of anger and hate...
I love you Cindy and thank you..!

If you reread my post you will surely see that I was not comparing Cindy to Hitler, that is just ridiculous. I was saying that, just because a person is deceased does not mean that certain events never took place nor can they be forgotten.

For those of you who seem to think I bare a grudge against Cindy, that is also ridiculous. I mean, you can't have a grudge against a deceased person, what would be the point of that?

Yes, it would appear that she was a caring loving person to most of you, as you have all clearly stated in your opinion of her. I had a very different experience and gave an opinion that has offended most but it's still my opinion and I won't apologise for it. I do agree, however that this thread is going nowhere so I'll step away from it now. Someone else was also treated in a similar way by Cindy and her family..if they wish to come forward that's up to them.

This thread was supposed to be going in only one direction, to remember a loved one, until you decided to dig up a grave and start a verbal assault on a decomposed body... I mean really my friend, ask your husband or your children what they think of your posts...
I just can't understand the why, the need to behave like this... You are more than welcome to continue if that is your desire but make no mistake you are what you reveil of yourself and that my friend as far as I belive is a very negative and immoral image right now...
Peace be with you and if you need to talk to about anything Im here for you...

Andrea, your message is pure and simple (also heart-breaking). The "whole" person. I love that. I feel admiration and respect for the maturity and empathy shown in this thread.

*Didn't realize I was signed into this account. It's Jane. Sorry.

Stuff it....I wasn't going to come back here but I will. Your first post Alfred..let me just remind everyone what it was...

My beautiful Friend I wish you were here...I missed you,your tender loving so much... ~~tears~~
You are always in my mind... I hope you can feel me..

^^^

This was not really about your beautiful friend...it was all about you ~~tears~~ and all

Your second post...

To be honest, I thought this thread will be locked or deleted...
I posted this because I loved her and I wish she could give me some positive guidance right now like before,
because my life is falling apart...
Thank you guys for replying here... it means so much to me!!

Why did you think your thread would be deleted Alfred? I'd love to know really but... in the mean time can I just point out that it was also all about you.

EDIT
Peace be with you and if you need to talk to about anything Im here for you..

^^

OK..maybe in the next world...

I have never, to my memory, posted a public grief thread before. Do you know why? Because I feared my feelings would be critiqued, dissected, or belittled.
All about him? What is so wrong with that anyway? Cindy is gone. Alfred has to live with the grief. It is about him. He probably wishes it wasn't.

I know for every person I have lost, I wish I could mourn them *with* them, but that's not how it works. Grief is for the living. It's brave to reach out for support.

OK..It's becoming more and more obvious to me that there is some misunderstanding about grief and who we should grieve for and the reasons why. Jane,..you have grieved for your orange boy and I believe I have been supportive in your grief because it's real and I can understand that because I too have felt the loss.

Now the internet is something I just do not understand and, please forgive me for that. I have never met you, I have never met Cindy either (although I did phone her a couple of times when she was in hospital) but, I would perhaps feel sad if you passed away but...I have never met you so...how could I grieve?

The same thing could be said about loving a person you have only met online. I see this word used so many times on here..."we loved her" how could you really? You didn't know her in real life.

Cindy has won many hearts on here over the years...perhaps I've won one or two but...I know I've won them by being honest to myself and always putting my opinions out there regardless of how they are received by others, and now...I really am done here.

If you acknowledge we cannot really know someone online, how dare you judge them by calling them manipulative? You are contradicting yourself, Hellon. It strikes me as odd, also, that you would ring such an ill lady up when she was in hospital and then, in death, call her 'manipulative' on a public forum. That just strikes me as two faced. I wonder, if the situation was ever reversed, if Cindy - despite your issues - would ever do the same to you. I can tell you conclusively, she wouldn't.
There is a time and a place to be 'honest' and perhaps even a time and place to boast about that often dubious quality (I have often seen it used as an excuse for simple rudeness) but I can tell you now, Hellon, this isn't the time or the place.
You have been asked repeatedly - not just by ALfred - to stop this and you have shown no remorse or understanding for anyone. I can genuinely say that in my few years here, I have seen no one post anything more unforgivably out of line and damning to themselves and the site in general.
I say again, as I will not be drawn into a personal mudslinging match on this of all threads, this is not a personal attack. I ask you politely, as I have tried through my pm to you, to take a backward step from this thread and think carefully about the direction its going and the people you are genuinely offending. And for what? so you can be 'honest'?

You know what Ben...you really need to stand back here because you have no idea what went on ok? I did not ring up an 'ill lady' at that time I rang up a friend who was ill, so...really...just back off now..ok.

At this point I was still naive enough to thing that you could actually trust people on here...what an eye opener that turned out to be and...it still is, daily I might add so, yeah...you don't know what happened so...stop picking holes in my posts ...like I said in my one and only pm to you regarding this...please don't judge me because you don't know the circumstances...

Hellon, all that is clear to everyone accept you, is that this is not the time or place to be carrying on the way you are. Please, stop trying to turn this into something personal. Telling me to back off for advising you politely (which is what I tried to do throughout) to think about what you are posting is absurd. I say again, I refuse to be drawn in to a thread that descends into you and I insulting each other again. I have tried repeatedly as have others to simply ask you to stop. There is no question how far out of line you have stepped on this thread, you just need to see it yourself.

I'm going to take my own advice here and try and remember Cindy positively. Hellon, I believe you and I would do well to leave it there.

I came to know Cindy a few months before she passed away when I joined a club that was so precious to her - Phoenix Rising. At the time, me being me, I was flitting around the clubs never really feeling settled but she made me feel so welcome. The club and this site were so important to her, confined to the house as she was; it was a much needed escape into the 'wide open world' for her!
I came to learn of the difficulties and tragedies she had experienced and fought bravely against daily and she sent me numerous emails and pictures of her and her beloved family and a husband that was taken far too soon from her. But she kept fighting and was always ready with a warm word.
What struck me most about her, however, was the courage she faced up to death with. She knew she didn't have long and she was ready to join her husband - and all of that never stopped her thinking of others and advising me when I needed it. Ironically, perhaps if she was still here, my own misadventures on the main boards would have been somewhat curtailed with a carefully placed word from her!

That's my memory of Cindy.

I say again, I refuse to be drawn in to a thread that descends into you and I insulting each other again.

^^

Why are you still here then?

Please, stop trying to turn this into something personal

^^

That's my line...copy violation mods!!!

Only to remember Cindy, Hellon. Take care

Guys, I simply did not want to comment on this thread because everything said and anything to be said, is sensitive to the majority.

Koan expressed his emotions in this Cindy-tribute thread. Many share his feelings of nostalgia and loss for her as a friend and a member of P and Q. I remember some of you have met in real in the past and I am not sure if it involved Cindy and Sylvia and the others. But whether in real life or over the internet, we all feel differently. We see life from different corners and translate emotions differently. We all have our personal vision of relationships in general.

Hellon have voiced her opinion about Cindy, which as I already expressed for her, I think it was harsh and would be deemed in many negative ways by others. I know for me it was not called for because no one will accept any negative comment about their loved ones. Especially that with death everything becomes useless and irreversible.

But as much as I think Hellon's comment was unnecessary, as much as I think replying to them is also useless..they just keep calling her for a reply by the time she now stated she would not comment again.

If I was offended I would simply ignore and focus on the main subject. There is no further need to call her out again. This is how she is, she will say whatever that which is on her mind, be it kind or unkind. She said she had a bad experience with Cindy and obviously did not forget it. For us, this is heartless, for her, this is being honest.

So why don't we all just simply ignore any negativity and focus on what is of interest for us.

I hope Cindy is in peace and hope we just let it be. She was kind to me and I enjoyed my experience with her in PR. Her morning messages brought peace to my heart at some tough times. I cannot expect others who had a different experience to understand and simply not criticize whatever nice image I have about her, because as I said, we have different visions and translate emotions differently..so the best we can do in such a thread is to ignore whatever ignites our sadness and focus on what we are here for.

For those who are close to Cindy, sorry for your loss. For p and q, we lost a member who stayed part of it for a long while.

Please if anyone has any further post to make, I hope it would be in reply to Koan's main subject, after all, that's what's supposed to matter to all of you.

Please if anyone has any further post to make, I hope it would be in reply to Koan's main subject,

^^

Actually, Rania, I did ask the same thing much further up the thread. I have tried repeatedly to put an end to this and keep to the positives. I do appreciate your position though.

I just thought the initiative should have been taken way ahead, but anyway I only saw your last post following my reply, as it was not updated at my end.

**************

May Cindy be resting in peace.

ben, you are truly a wonderful man... thank you for all your sentiments and support.
im so glad you are a member of this site... and again, thanks for everyone for just showing up here with a positive attitude...
i just burnt my left hand in the oven so no uppercase for me for awhile...