WW3

The world in 2011 is fundementally shifting; the speed of which it's been doing so is extreme and incredibly frightening.

War with Iran is seemingly very likely in the near future; whilst the UK and many other countries begin to shut down diplomacy -
Iran it's self seems to be under attack - a missile base has been destroyed; one source by the Times (a western intelligence official),
put the blame onto Israel. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2099376,00.html, http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2011/11/israels-hand-of-god-and-iran.html.
The US were already concerned that Israel might instigate a attack on Iran, increasing their military presence whilst keeping a tighter view of Israel. http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/04/u-s-concerned-israel-could-strike-iran/

Whilst a Chinese General has stated ""China Will Not Hesitate To Protect Iran Even With A Third World War" -
despite this threat many top US officials have been calling for war on Iran for nearly a decade due to the extensive
human right abuses by the Iranian president and his pursuit of a nuclear programme. More worringly as the 'western' world
has been positioning it's self for perhaps another 'no fly zone' in Syria - Russia has put their missile systems into combat alert,
ready to retalitate to any effort to attack on the Syrian government despite their increasingly brutal methods of killing protestors.
Russia has also been arming the Syrian army in preperation of a NATO attack, http://www.infowars.com/russia-arms-syria-with-missiles-to-defend-against-nato-attack/,
Syria borders Iran and it seems likely that with the latest massive dip in relations with Iran, western forces will want to enter syria not just so they can
help the protestors and rebels but so they can watch Iran from their as well as Iraq (which also borders Iran).

President Obama seems unlikely to call for war on Iran though he has admitted it could be a possisbilty, however elections are coming up and some of his credible opposition
are calling for war on Iran, though top US officials have been doing so for more than a decade. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/8887887/Barack-Obama-to-consider-all-options-to-stop-Iran-getting-nuclear-weapons.html

Theirs loads, and i mean loads more - events in the world are unfolding at a riddicolous rate and much of the news you will not find in your newspapers, or your TVs.
You get some nuggets on aljazeera, bbc world service, and sometimes russia today, but your best bet is twitter (which i've only just realised is amazing)
Sorry if this seems all seems a bit muddled. i wanted to talk about the recession etc which is also increasingly darker and darker too lol.

It concerns me that China is backing Iran... I mean why?

Nice thread, and pretty pin point accuracy with most of your facts, in all honesty i'm not too worried, I don't think anyone in the world right now has the ability to finance such a war on Iran, not after what has been proven as a major failure in iraq, as much as they advertise for it, Bombing Iran will never be a serious possibility

Sean.

War is never obsolete and peace, never final.

Given the current circumstances and the symptoms, another heavy wave of recession has been predicted, which will probably sink the European economy down further and US will be affected as well. Asia it seems, has been told to survive if not show growth.

There really isnt much that an individual can do.

^ Agree with "Fat giraffe". Financing a war isnt feasible.

"humanity has been trying to wipe itself out since the dawn of time man, now..we finally have the technology to finish the job"

The Comedian, Watchmen.

We are advancing technologically too far and fast for our cultural and ethical evolution to catch up. I blame alot of this retardation on religion, which crippled the advancement of ideas and is still doing so, particularly in American politics. If we were more advanced in general as a species in our ideas about ethics and rights, war would be much harder to sell to people.

I really hope there isn't another World War, but I think it's highly unlikely anyone would go to war with the USA and it's allies, not even China.

^ Damn Kevin.

Watchmen is probably the most brilliant thing I've read.

In my opinion, we arent advancing technologically too fast. Infact we are slow. We are consuming resources at an accelerated rate. For further resources mankind will have to dig up other planets. But with no resources left, we will be stuck on this planet. The population has hit 7 billion already, to satisfy the hunger, more resources will be needed. A supernova within 3000 light years could actually destroy the ozone layer completely, but as no candidate star in our galaxy is on the death bed, a couple of ten thousand years are sure to been seen by us. But a solar flare powerful enough can disrupt the magnetic field of Earth, which will still cause a huge problem.

But I will agree, religious confrontations are a hurdle to the progress of human intellect.

Are you kidding me? Belief in God is crippling us?? Hahaha wow.

Believing in god isnt the problem Britt.

Kevin meant that, the dispute caused because of it, is a hurdle.

Plus the existence of God is subjective.

Subjective to you, perhaps, but not to me.

I don't think Thats what Kevin meant..

It is subjective in general. Some do not believe in God, while some do believe in god.

The idea revolves around the confrontation caused due to religion.

Each to his own Britt. I can post a lengthy answer as to how gods existence is futile in such an ordained cosmos. But I am sure you wouldnt want to read such a long post :P

And if Kevin meant, religion in itself is the root cause, then I am with you on this. Religion isnt against the progress of human kind. Nor can we deny the fact that humans are savage in nature.

It concerns me that China is backing Iran... I mean why?
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China and Iran has been really close political allies since the days of the 50's britt

China relies heavily on Iranian gas 1st and far most,
and in return, china has helped the Iranian rebel government since the early 70's in alot of aspects
mainly military aid, everything from technical support to missile construction along with missile technology development and missile factories and radars and also Test equipment.

if my memory hasn't failed me, China was one of the first countries to approve of the new Rebel government back when the shah was overthrown in late 78/early 79
both governments shared ideological themes of anti-imperialism and third world solidarity helped solidify the relationship but they became allies as a way to counterbalance the Soviet Union and the United States during the Cold War.
They have been very close friends in the UN as well, Iran relies heavily on China's importance with their Veto in the security council to protect it from military actions that the United States or the UN can for take, much like the way Israel relies on the influence that the united states have within the UN

anyways, a war on Iran right now isn't even in the picture, or in the near future, it has very strong tight relationship with very powerful allies that neighbor it, which are, the Syrian government which is protected heavily by the Russians, and Hezbollah which resides on the south of Lebanon, not to mention the strong bonds it has with China, and Russia.

I have a question for you brit,
Exactly why would it concern that china decides to back up Iran, what is it that you have to fear from the Iranians?

^ Fat Giraffe

I see you have an in depth knowledge of the political establishments. While my political knowledge is less, as I choose to stay away from such a topic. I will not further comment in response to your post.

But a war during an upcoming recession will drop the economies drastically. So most countries wont opt for a war.

Rabea I didn't know all that history. I'm trying to learn my own countries history as is (my school was mediocre at best), so it was a surprise to me.

Our political and religious differences are just that - huge differences. You won't understand my reasonings for backing Israel and not trusting Iran, and I know I won't change your mind. Just as you probably think I am criminally insane for backing Israel but you won't change my mind, either. I think at this point before wasting our time in debate, we just appreciate the differences.

War won't get us out of recession/depression, whatever they're calling it these days. I think all our men and women need to come home and we should mind our own business unless something becomes our business (ie - we are directing involved or at risk.. and not because a leader 'thinks' so). Starting up a huge war, one of WW3 status would be biblical (there we go again, sorry Kev).

You probably think I am criminally insane for backing Israel but you won't change my mind.
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Not really, On the contrary, I can't place my hate or even blame you for whatever reasons you support israel, after all you're free to support whoever you wish

I also agree on what you had to say about your country men returning home, that would make everyone happy including your own.

Interesting thread... there are many signs that a third world war is near, and I've talked about this before with others, but you never know what happens. Sometimes the signs signify other events.

Fat giraffe, i'm curious - you said near enough pin point accuracy on MOST of my facts, i tried to verify everything i've found between atleast 2 good sources due to the nature of what i'm saying - is there anything untrue about it?

trust me i'd rather be wrong about much of what i say :P

Oh and Britt, war is perhaps one of the few things which can reset the worlds deepening recession which might perhaps turn into depression very soon. it's worked twice before...

That's at a different time in the world though. Americans used to make things and we don't anymore. We outsource everything due to high corporate taxes. People can hate on the rich all they want but they got rich for a reason and are going to maintain it...even if it means taking jobs overseas. And that's precisely what's been happening. I don't think a war would reset our economies anymore. We have our economies toed globally to each other now and that would cause a financial collapse. Europes debt and woes are causing our markets to plummet and its affecting our economy.. what happens elsewhere affects here and vice versa. Global economies tied together don't work.

A world war would most certainly give many countries the very boost it needs to kick-start their manafacturing again.

This is a unconfirmed news source, i'll try to find it - but it stated that the US and Europe have plans to actually cause a complete financial collapse - why?

It would quite litteraly make the west putty, able to be moulded in whatever fashion it chooses - cause a problem, propose solution for problem, become loved and adored by all for fixing it and able to wield complete power because of it.

Alright, very conspiracy theory i know. but the very fact that our economies are so mashed together causes alot of problems - war again is one of the few things which would seperate our economies, makes a huge push for the need of factories, smarter robots, better planes, cleverer missiles, etc etc etc etc.

Money is a system based on faith and faith alone.....it doesn't really exist, it doesn't really make sense anymore, the fundemental things that have lead to this recession are unavoidable unless complete change occurs, boom and bust.

The fascinating thing is how similar events are to the years before WW2 and even 1, i might make a comparison thread :P

Please do make a comparison thread, I think that would be really interesting to see! I completely believe our current government and their friends (George Soros) is trying to collapse to rebuild into something more their style (socialism). I get called crazy and a conspiracy theorist all the time, and trust me, I hope I am wrong. I want to be.

Iran downs US spy prone

http://www.presstv.com/detail/213765.html

time to watch some drama on T.V

America loves their drones, i can't remember the exact number but loads of them are flying over pakistan every day - part of some strange deal where the US pay them billions and they get to kill civilians and sometimes a 'terrorist' and once in a while a actual terrorist all over the place.

Nah Sean I was trying to give you credit for being very accurate, anyways , Pakistan paid a lot of blood in this so called war on terror, 30 000 dead, and more than one million refuges
I wonder who is paying the bill for that?

^ 30,000 dead? i had no idea it was so many.

Why the *&*% don't i know? I'm a knowledge seeker and what increasingly occurs to me is just how much goes unnoted by mainstream media, i always believed that the press is a free agent but it's becoming clearer to me that they guide news to our ears and eyes shaped by a agenda.

People are opressed in the west; perhaps not by violence or dictators but by unseen manipulators feeding of us believing in certain things, buying the 'right' things and keeping our minds busy on everything but the things that really matter.

When people hear say things such as this they are labelled crazy, paranoid or a consparist - but to be honest i think people have alot invested in denying that 99% of us are sheep, or kinder words it is in our nature to follow the masses even if we don't know why we're doing it.

Off point, bit of a ramble - too many beers.

^ Sean you stole the words from my mind, figuratively =)

Humans indeed are like sheep, never knowing if they are going towards the grazing field or the slaughter house, everyone just follows blindly.

"If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed." - Mark Twain

^ i'm stealing that qoute :P!

Very well, here it is.

Sean, I just read your post on WW3 thread, you conspiracy theory is quite intriguing, but do you think it is actually possible that a war could actually facilitate progress?

Yes, the events before WW1 and WW2 were different. WW2 led to the establishment of the OSI model layer and better computing technology, better weaponry and more. I too am keen on witnessing a huge leap in human society.

But will it not father certain other problems?. . like racism or people fighting on religious grounds or just countries displaying nuclear power?.. Bio weapons could be used as well. At the aftermath, the society might try to rebuild itself again and probably stronger as well, but starting from zero might not be a good idea given that a thermonuclear war might eradicate a huge amount of human population.

I just added the authors name to the quote. Since the author is no longer, you can use it as you like =)

^ my reply to the message which we decided is better placed on here :)

I'm not advocating war it's self - i do not wish it, or want it; humans can progress without it and have done so for thousands of years.

Unfourantly i see it as unavoidable - the powers at be believe keenly that it's pretty much the only solution to many problems - though yes, it will be extremly ugly. most of the war will be very much terrorism - explosive nuclear devices, biological agents and the rest of it....

A land war over the middle east and naval and air wars everywhere else.

The best way to go to zero is to destroy money it's self. Only if to begin again, hopefully without credit cards - lending should be directly between people and only faciltated - no country should be in 'debt'. that is the only way to start again, but corporations own the world and money is the way in which they own it.

They are most certainly the real powers at be and their is alot to gain from war - coca cola gained global dominance by supplying american soldiers across the world with the stuff, setting up factories in other countries... a sugary drink commands more power than most countries...=/ Your points are very valid and should be posted for people to see :)

Human society has been driven by our world wars - we would not have airlines, we would not have the internet, we would not have plastics etc etc etc

I am skipping one of the replies, since it wont contribute and is super short.
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As individuals we are helpless my friend.

No matter how hard we try to suppress the imminent war, it will still take place in the near future.

People have become more self centered. But that is because of the government. People from different countries do not literally hate each other. It is the governments from these countries that are in rivalry, and media adds the fuel to the fire.

We can try to explain it to the masses, but one cannot be saved if he does not want to be saved.

Overtime I have realized, there is nothing much that can be done as an individual. I try to tell people as to how everything works and in return I am called a cynical person. I guess it is futile to speak before the deaf :P

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The end might make others judge my character :P

But if the moderators find anything offending, they can delete certain parts of the post or the post itself without informing me.

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Adding further to the post, I have resided in Oman, in the past and have observed enough. I did travel to a lot of the middle east countries. People are very nice, super religious, but very kind and loving.
Individuals from every religious background are treated equally. I do not understand as to why humans are fixated on destroying each other.

^ i've said far worst things on here :P

^ I've just turned regular. Have yet to attain trust :P

I've glanced over this thread, and all it make me think of is that... we've had about, what... 12,000 years of human civilization? Compared to our physical history, which has been at this stage for about 200,000 years, it's not that long. I feel like despite all the higher things that we are capable of, (like art, music, philosophy, science...) in some ways we are still just monkeys, territorial and social and bloodthirsty and clever. I feel like we haven't had time yet for our minds and spirits - our creative and compassionate potential - to fully come into dialogue with our physiology. Maybe things would be different now if we had turned out less similar to those war-mongering baboons, and more similar to bonobos. ; )

^ Nice post Sibs. .

The pace at which one has to live/function within the boundaries of society, leaves an individual unable to extract enough time to ponder upon the global problems or any problem within his visible vicinity.

A populous, acts outrageously to justify its beliefs, although it is just an excuse to curtain hypocrisy.

Earth formed 4.54 billion years ago, and life appeared on its surface within one billion years.

Human prehistory begins in the Paleolithic Era, or "Early Stone Age". Later, during the Neolithic Era (New Stone Age), came the Agricultural Revolution (between 8000 and 5000 BCE) in the Fertile Crescent, where humans first began the systematic husbandry of plants and animals.

Early civilizations around the Mediterranean and in the Near East (3500-600 BC)

Egyptian civilization (3500 - 0 BC)

Greek - Hellenistic civilization (1000 BC - 100 BC)

Roman state (753 BC - 500 AD)

Major world religions (700 AD - now)

"In some ways we are still just monkeys, territorial and social and bloodthirsty and clever"

^ Humans are still animals, just with a developed conscious. We will tend endlessly, to be territorial and bloodthirsty, display power and hunt each other. You are correct after all.

And as for art, music, philosophy, science, etc - The distinguished personalities have always criticized the society. It is obvious in their quotes, books, articles, there are documentaries on a lot of scientists, artists, leaders, etc, which you are probably aware of, silly me :P

You don't know because the main stream media in the west hides it from you, The issue is that most people chose not to see the truth because it contradicts their society's/religious beliefs, and they wouldn't know how to handle that, along with the fact that when ever you start getting a glimpse of what reality is in the other parts of the world sean, Your media works hard on fixating the masses on something very stupid,
in most cases it's either a celebrity's wedding or a divorce,

""The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.""

I guess the words of Malcom X will explain it better than anyway i could. =-)

^ Fat giraffe.

Excellent post. What you wrote it very true, as true as white on rice. It is a fabricated delivery of information. Its 4 am and I have to hit the bed. But I'll give my input tomorrow.

People from different countries do not literally hate each other. It is the governments from these countries that are in rivalry, and media adds the fuel to the fire.
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respect to that my friend, You should know that one major fact in here is ignorance, people decide to believe what ever they are told and thought by their governments, which is pretty terrible, I'd like to believe that we, as humans,reached the age where ignorance is no longer an excuse, The truth will always prevail, with the facts laying simple and plain on the surface, If you chose to overlook it,
Then it's on YOU, and one way or another, you're going to pay for it.

^ some fantastic stuff coming from all of you guys.

I would like to believe humans have trascended the need to act upon our most basic instincts - we are truly able to reason our emotions, regulate our anger, to be calm in times of true disaster...

But i also agree and i believe that many of our leaders often repersent the worst in us, rarely the best - they are the ones who seek power, the ones who build secretly their empires by trampling, dealing and trading in peoples lives often without regard for the personal tragedies that they cause in their wake. The majority of leaders demonstrate psychopathic and moer often sociopathic tendacies to such a extent it's actually very worrying. However i believe such conditions actually are part of our evolution too, the ones who wish to wield unimaginable power and who can stand the pressure afterall require certain abilities that you or i may not have.

Again a ramble, not very evidenced but i am just about to go to work at 6 in morning, so forgive me ;P

^ Fat giraffe

Agreed. We have approached to the point where ignorance is merely an excuse.

The real truth these days is twisted and manipulated by the leaders to provoke the citizens in providing political and social support.

I will agree, the society is degrading day after day, yet the masses talk about being patriotic, most people are unaware of the political games.

The people that live on a days pay for a days work, are the ones that are lured easily into submission, as per my observations. They desperately seek a better quality of life, which is falsely assured by the political demons. So, ignorance may be an excuse, but ignorance does provide for the overlords in their ivory towers, sucking the nation dry of wealth and senses.

I'm in the military and pretty worried about the current way global politics are heading. But on to the topic at hand, since 1973 Iran has been on the chopping block of we want our own dictator in there from the US. Russia has also stated there would be consequences if Iran was bombed.

As for someone saying why back Iran? Well, because of sovereignty. NATO keeps going around the world putting dictators in countries they bomb into the dirt.

Libya has gone from a developing nation with very high educational standards down to a third world country in three months due to NATO meddling and 11,000 + bombing sorties that have made their infrastructure none existent; whilst killing thousands of civilians.

Pretty sure Iran does not want that happening to them so they are just taking counter measures. What's wrong with them having a nuke? When Israel has over 200+. Why is it our business to fight these wars for these people? What do I care if some people on the other side of the planet fight each other while I'm safe? Spending my tax dollars so you can play police around the world is some pretty retarded logic. Oh yeah I forgot we need to spread democracy by starting a war in Iraq that kills 1.5 million civilians.

A patriot is one that questions their government; not one that follows it blindly.