Is Homosexuality a Choice or a Predisposition?

dorotea: because you keep saying "being a christian".
Can't you think for yourself, rather not what your religion tells you what is right and wrong?
I was raised christian, I don't believe homosexuality is wrong as long as it makes the person happy. I know plenty of other catholics who also think it's perfectly fine, and I know a homosexual who happens to be a christian. I don't think their choices or decisions are wrong just because the bible says they are.

kaitlin: I find speaking non offensively to those whom I think are idiots is not entertaining

By that logic, Pink, what about stealing, or lying? Is that wrong? Even if it makes the person happy to lie or steal? Or even murder?

And it's not the fact that just the Bible says these things are wrong... It's the fact that God said that it was wrong. If God so condemns such things, then I don't believe He would make people succumb to it, without having some way out of it.

~Ciao Lipton

Pink:
Yes, I do think for myself, but many of my thoughts are based on the Bible because that is what I believe.

As for homosexuality being wrong, that is my opinion. I believe it's a choice to become one or not.. Some people, for instance, claim that they've been a homosexual from the instant they were born. I doubt that. It's more like they chose to follow those 'urges' towards homosexuality whenever they're confused about their sexuality (which I'm sure everyone is at one point of their life).

If you want me to give you one reason why I believe homosexuality is wrong, without saying anything about the bible, then I'll say nature. It is totally against the laws of nature. A woman and a woman or a man and a man can't have kids. Only a man and a woman. That already proves it in my opinion.

There, that's all I have to say for now.

what if they're not having kids? what do children have to do with anything?

and lipton, that is not the same in any case considering that lying and stealing is hurting another person or causing some sort of harm or disruption, you tell me what part of homosexuals loving one another is a harm to our society.
And again, i'm not religous, so I will respect you believe that what God tells you to believe is right.

agh....dorotea

"As for homosexuality being wrong, that is my opinion. I believe it's a choice to become one or not.. "

So what if it is a choice? there are scientific studies by the way that back up some people are actually are born into homosexuality, and yes I am aware it is a choice as some times, but why is that a problem? Some people are happier being able to fall in love with someone their own gender, so they may choose to follow that path. So what? if it makes them happy, what's the problem? because they can't have kids? Why do they need to? and why does nature need to define the way we live? if we went by that, hardly anyone would accomplish a life of happiness.

(Once again, it's hard to discuss this without getting into other things...)

Pink:

I'd be interested in knowing how scientists could find out someone will be a homosexual before they're even born.

Yes, the choice thing is a problem. Here is what I think. A person is born and at some point, is insecure and confused about their sexuality. With so many homosexuals around, that person, when feeling the slightest bit confused on what gender they're attracted to, wonders: Could I be a homosexual too? At that point, the person chooses to either be one or not. They might not actually realize they made the choice, but I believe they have. To me and to Christians, that is a problem 'cause we believe that God made man and woman to love each other, and that it's a sin to have sexual intercourse with someone of the same gender. To you it might not be a problem 'cause you don't believe in God/or are not a Christian.

And, by the way, things that make you happy are not necessarily right.

I can't believe we're discussing this!

It's like asking if it's ok to masturbate or something.

"I'd be interested in knowing how scientists could find out someone will be a homosexual before they're even born. "

i will happily explain.
first, I did not say before they were born...I said born INTO it.
Second: scientific studies of the brain. men and women have different shapes and nerves of the brain that have already been established. No argument in that. These different areas relate to emotions, (notice women usually cry or get a lot more emotional than men), sexual attraction, romantic attraction, -among other things such as-nurturing, the feeling of dominance, feeling of the protector, so forth.
and please no one even try to argue with me about those, they've already been proved and i will site my sources.
Anyway, studies have shown that among some homosexuals they have almost mixed up brain tissue. A transexual's brain was observed (a male) and they found that he posessed the same physcial qualities in the brain which relate to sexual and romantic attraction to that of a female. I have yet to have heard of one about a lesbian's brain (doesn't mean it hasn't been done) but there have been many studies on this.

"A person is born and at some point, is insecure and confused about their sexuality..."
yes some people do do that, but that's not always the situation. Sometime a person just finds the opposite sex repulsive, cannot even bring themselves to fall in love with that gender. They could force themselves to put up with it, but find that they do have the capability to love someone, just of the same sex. Hence they decide to take a new path and fall in love with the person, not the physical sex. And, the majority or all of the time, that person happens to be of the same sex.

" To me and to Christians, that is a problem 'cause we believe that God made man and woman to love each other, and that it's a sin to have sexual intercourse with someone of the same gender."
I would be careful about what you say Dorotea, because I know of plenty of christians who believe homosexuality is a perfectly fine path to take.
If I believed in God it would still not be a problem to me considering they are not hurting anyone.

"And, by the way, things that make you happy are not necessarily right."
As long as they are not harmful to you, loved ones, or society, yes they are.

"A transexual's brain was observed (a male) and they found that he posessed the same physcial qualities in the brain which relate to sexual and romantic attraction to that of a female"

Some people are born more sexually unstable, which is what I think happened to the guy. He simply, in his confusion, thought that he must be gay and chose that path.

"Sometime a person just finds the opposite sex repulsive, cannot even bring themselves to fall in love with that gender. They could force themselves to put up with it, but find that they do have the capability to love someone, just of the same sex"

Haha, well actually I don't find the opposite sex wonderful either. I mean, who thinks a penis is beautiful? The person just probably hasn't found the right kind of person yet (of the opposite sex) who they could love, and mistook that for homosexuality.

"I would be careful about what you say Dorotea, because I know of plenty of christians who believe homosexuality is a perfectly fine path to take."

Do those christians who you know read the Bible? The bible is for christians, and it clearly states that homosexuality is wrong. Unless they don't read the Bible of course.

"Some people are born more sexually unstable, which is what I think happened to the guy. He simply, in his confusion, thought that he must be gay and chose that path."

What the hell are you talking about? i just explained he had the same tissue as a woman's brain...that's not the same as being sexually unstable, and how the hell is he confused if it has been PROVED that he has the sexual attraction of a woman?

"Haha, well actually I don't find the opposite sex wonderful either. I mean, who thinks a penis is beautiful? "
That's not what I meant Dorotea. i meant that gender as a whole. What men do that women don't, vice versa, how they act. some people just cannot force themselves to fall in love with the opposite gender because they think differently, and there is nothing harmful about that.

"Do those christians who you know read the Bible? The bible is for christians, and it clearly states that homosexuality is wrong. Unless they don't read the Bible of course"

this calls for the ef word.
Are you fucking kidding me?
of course they read the bible, of course they heard the preaches, they decided it's fine because they see no harm in it. end of story.

"The bible is for christians, and it clearly states that homosexuality is wrong. "

All your Christian Bible talk is getting old...but can't they be forgiven?

"I'd be interested in knowing how scientists could find out someone will be a homosexual before they're even born. "

Dorotea: Before they're born? I dont think so. Just like they cannot determine what our tastes in other things will be before we're born. like i posted before, say i like one type of food, but my friend hates it. nobody knows why that is, we just have different tastes and were born like that. scientists cannot determine what type of food a person will like before it is born, so how could they determine if they're going to be homosexual?

your comment wasn't valid on proving your point that homosexuality is always a choice.

"Are you fucking kidding me?
of course they read the bible, of course they heard the preaches, they decided it's fine because they see no harm in it. end of story."

It's not possible for a Christian to pick and choose what he or she thinks is right in the Bible because the second they dismiss the word of God they aren't Christian.

And, no Nat, you can't be forgiven unless you repent and give up homosexuality. Bible talk is getting old... more than 2000 years old in fact. If something lasts that long and continues to grow maybe it's not the bible talk that is getting old.

For all the talk of equality and rights for this and that I see on this forum there sure is a fundamental lack of respect for Christians.

how is that a lack of respect? any disrespect that was implied was because of idiotic statements, like yours.

"It's not possible for a Christian to pick and choose what he or she thinks is right in the Bible because the second they dismiss the word of God they aren't Christian."
This is why i don't like religion.
this is pathetic. You are told what to think, what to believe, and the minute you think twice about something you're a sinner...thats pathetic.
and no Bret, I would still think them a christian considering they do the best they can to follow "God's law" they maintain their faith and they follow what they think is right in creating a peaceful world. I hardly think that thinking for yourself would consider you "not a christian".

"you can't be forgiven unless you repent and give up homosexuality."
I hardly think that doing something that makes you happy is something that needs to be "forgiven".

"more than 2000 years old in fact."
and maybe it's time to change some things. you ask if I'm talking about the bible? yes, I am.
Things were incredibly different then. There were physical reasons as to why homosexuality was wrong, and those reasons do not exist today. Things need to change.

I'm out for a few hours, be back later

InMyWorld: I didn't say that. Pink did. :)

Britt:

I agree, I have no right to judge. God judges us in the end. The reason why I posted on this thread was because I wanted to explain why I feel that homosexuality is a choice.

I have NEVER said that I haven't sinned. Being a Christian does NOT, by any means, mean that I haven't sinned.

I'm not worried about anything. I'm discussing why I believe homosexuality is a choice with people who think it's a predisposition.

Yeah, I do believe in science, and I didn't say I didn't believe what Pink said.

I'm not being freaked out by homosexuality. This post is about homosexuality, so that is why we're discussing it. Also, I haven't used Christianity as a point in every argument. As I stated before, nature shows, in my opinion (note, this is an opinion) that homosexuality is wrong because only man and woman can reproduce, not man and man or woman or woman.

The only reason I have used the fact that I am a Christian in this post is because in the Bible it clearly states that homosexuality is wrong, and that is what I believe. It goes against my morals. As because this post is for opinions, i stated mine.

I do not wish to offend any homosexuals, because i've found that they're great people! i have friends who are homosexuals and I respect them a lot. Our opinions may differ, but we can still be friends.

Sorry, got to get back to you later.

"how is that a lack of respect? any disrespect that was implied was because of idiotic statements, like yours."

So it was disrespect. And any statement is only idiotic because you singularly disagree.

"This is why i don't like religion.
this is pathetic. You are told what to think, what to believe, and the minute you think twice about something you're a sinner...thats pathetic."

I don't make the rule, or follow them for that matter, I'm just telling you how it is for Christianity. I am, however, more inclined to follow what the Bible says is right over anything you say is right.

"I hardly think that doing something that makes you happy is something that needs to be "forgiven"."

If you go against God's word, ie via homosexuality, and do not repent then will be forgiven by God? No, you won't. It's not a hard premise to grasp.

""more than 2000 years old in fact."
and maybe it's time to change some things. you ask if I'm talking about the bible? yes, I am.
Things were incredibly different then. There were physical reasons as to why homosexuality was wrong, and those reasons do not exist today. Things need to change."

You are not Christian and have no right to make such claims as you ignore the Word yourself. When you become Archbishop of where ever it is I'll prick up my ears and take heed on your views about it. I was stating fact about Christianity and it's views on homosexuality nothing more.

This was supposed to be an interesting discussion, but anyone who disagrees with you (Pink) will be lambasted for short sightedness even when it isn't necessarily our view. Your overzealous need for personal attacks is uncalled for and repetitive to the point of boredom.

I'll pack up my twisted knickers and leave this one now. No point arguing the same point instead of discussing it civilly. You made me quote too... *grumbles*

hahahahahhah

you're definitely one to talk on civil discussions Bret. I recall quite a few times when I attempted to have a polite discussion with you, and you went nuts.
I was disrespectful in this conversation because I thought the points made were ridiculous. I have heard points as to why gay marriage is wrong that I could level with (though I still think it should be permitted) and I have heard points as to why people think that homosexuality is "wrong" that were at least intelligent. I found no such points in this one.

Bret...I was raised Christian, still am, did the whole Sunday school thing, got confirmed, I know the laws of Christianity and I have never heard that you are considered a non Christian if you fail to follow one of God's laws.

Failing to follow and choosing not to follow are two vastly different things.

The only reason you found my post lacking in intelligence, again, is because it puts you in a bad light. And yes, I freely admit losing it in the past with you, but then again I am sure many people can see why. I saw it in myself, didn't like it and won't be doing it again.

Brit, you are correct, Jesus loves all and Jesus saves, but his love and forgiveness alone won't buy you a seat on the plane to heaven you reach the terminal.

Everything everyone does at anytime is disgusting and wrong to someone, there is no avoiding it.

And religion is all about morals, if it should conflict with your beliefs it is essentially immoral.

I don't think anyone here has said anything about hate.

I think you need to scroll up and see my first post. Also I have at no point said I find it immoral or wrong. In the for or against post you'll see my stance.

Thinking of someone, who loves another of the same sex wrong and disgusting, i highly call that moral.. I call that Ignorance.

I have no idea what you are trying to say, fella.

I am also fully aware of what moral is, re-read my post and think about it. It's all about perspective.

It's all good, I'm just giving you a mental work out.

Yes, you do have to repent and mean it. That's where the conflict comes in because a Homosexual is most unlikely to repent their lifestyle because they believe in it and it would be morally wrong for them to do so.

As a Christian it is wrong to judge, but not to recognise when something or someone is wrong.

So, although homosexuality is considered to be wrong, it is not the Christian's place to judge a person for it. Jesus / God will do the judging when the time comes.

So, being friends with gay people is not wrong, for example.

(I hope that a/ I got that right and b/ it makes sense.)

o geez this is pathetic.

i can't argue with overly religous people, they're too closed minded and don't pay attention. See ya'll in the next forum

this contradicts what i said before...but i'm guessing the reason the bible says homosexuality is wrong is because it considers it to be a choice...God wouldn't punish anything that you're born with...*sigh* this is wearing me out.

"i can't argue with overly religous people, they're too closed minded and don't pay attention. "

Says the one person who leaves.

We're not arguing either, we're discussing.

I think it is considered wrong in the Bible because it goes against God's design of man and woman, whether it is a choice or not.

It is wrong in in the Bible because:

1) God created man to be with woman, and "be fruitful and multiply."
2) God said it, so it be done

And someone said that they know plenty of Christians that think homosexuality is a perfectly fine path to take in life. I'd like to talk to these "Christians" and ask how their thinking pattern became so terribly warped. Once you begin to condone one sin, you begin to condone them all. Accepting something just because it makes someone happy, even if it goes against the Law, is just ignorant. These people cannot begin to call themselves Christians if they try to find loopholes through God's word, or completely ignore it.

~Ciao Lipton

Lip, a few posts up I described judgement, can you clarify that for me please?

To simply condone something just because it makes them happy is a blatant disregard for God's Word, and Christians cannot disregard God's word, because a true Christian is someone who follows God's word.

Of course, the term "Christian" has become so terribly warped, that people think that as long as they acknowledge that there's a God, then they're fine. Guess what? Satan knows there's a God, and he knows that Jesus is the Son of God.

Besides, God specifically said:

Leviticus 18:22
"You shall not lie with male, as one lies with female; it is an abomination."

It is black-and-white in the Bible.

I'm not judging homosexuals. I'm scrutinizing these people that call themselves Christians, but, for some reason, say that it's okay for other people to go against God's word. Condoning a sin like that is the same as saying that it's fine, which, in a way, is lying to that person. For a Christian to be completely fine with the sin around them, is the same as telling them that God couldn't care less.

Yes, it's between the homosexual and God, but for a Christian to sit there, and "just be fine with it" is against what God tells us. If you don't tell the person that God doesn't agree with what they do, then it's just the same as saying, "Well, it's okay." or "God doesn't really care." You become responsible for that person's soul, because you witheld.

And the fact that homosexuals were around during the time of Lot, really has nothing to do with the discussion.

I know what I typed seemed judgmental, but as a Christian, I feel that the whole Christian lifestyle is under attack. People call themselves Christians, but don't even abide by what God told them to do, and it gives true Christians a bad name. It tells everyone else that "God doesn't really care." I'm just telling you that God DOES care.

~Ciao Lipton

Bret:

As I said in my last post, I just feel that the true Christian lifestyle is under attack by all of these other people trying to find loopholes through God's word. I'm friends with gays, and bisexuals, and I don't judge them. They know that I think what they stand for is wrong, but we get along anyway. I was talking about these "Christians" who don't even acknowledge God's word, and I was trying to say that someone who doesn't even do what God says, cannot begin to call themselves a Christian. God tells us to be a witness to others, and by sitting there saying, "God doesn't care if you're gay," is by no means being a witness to anyone.

~Ciao Lipton

Cheers fella.

didnt read all the posts....sorry too many....

but i think that homosexuality is both a choice also not a choice....

like i know someone that was straight and then she had a bad relationship with a guy...like really bad...and then she met another woman that had the same situation....and they got together....so like in that situation its a choice....

but like my biology teacher was telling us how in the brain there is a certain section that is bigger in girls than it is in boys..... and if u look at a gay guys brain, (i assume one that has apparently been gay all along, not just all of a sudden changed) its alot bigger, just like a girls....

so homosexuality can possibly not be a choice....

but i thought that that was interesting.....