Scientology

I feel really pathetic right now asking this but I have no idea what Scientology is.
I studied it a little but the most useful site I came up with was

"Scientology follows a long tradition of religious practice. Its roots lie in the deepest beliefs and aspirations of all great religions, thus encompassing a religious heritage as old and as varied as man himself.

Though drawing upon the wisdom of some 50,000 years, Scientology is a new religion, one which has isolated fundamental laws of life and, for the first time, developed a workable technology that can be applied to help one achieve a happier and more spiritual existence. Scientology is therefore something one does, not merely something one believes in — an important point which will be greatly clarified as you continue reading.

That Scientology’s development and rapid promulgation was made possible, in part, by advances in the physical sciences through the first half of the twentieth century is significant. Scientology constitutes man’s first real application of scientific methodology to spiritual questions."

and that still doesn't explain to me what it is.

what exactly is Scientology, what are its principles/beliefs, how did it originate, how do its members exercise their beliefs?

Much like you I have little knowledge of Scientology, so I'm wandering off to find out about it.

Back later with thoughts, facts and opinions.

Don't go there.

I'm with Mel. Don't go anywhere near it.

Scientology is a religion that was invented by a man named Ron l Hubbard, who, after becoming a failed science fiction writer, decided to make up a belief system using psychology and bullshit.

Scientologist believe we all need to unlock ourselves so we can reclaim our Alien super powers...some of their books have interesting ideas..but ultimately it's a religion you pay for book by book until you become dependant on them.

It's a cult...and a nasty one at that.

I never said I was getting involved in it, I said I wanted more info on it. You've given me some inffo but I still don't get the big picture. What do they base their beliefs on? do they believe in spiritual beings tied with science or just one or the other? How do they practice their religion?

When I first became interested in psychology I read a sign in Edinburgh that read 'personality test inside'. In I went and sat this massive test which took me near on an hour to complete. Eventually, after the paper was assessed, this guy called me into a room and told me how bad my life was and if I didn't improve it blah blah blah.

The crunch came when he mentioned just what my saviour might be: Scientology! And for the price of ten quid I'd up and running and saving my soul. I soon left - pretty discusted

I remember learning a bit about scientology when I was in highschool.

Scientologists believe in reincarnation and that their past lives can affect their present life. For example if they were a bad person in their past life, then that may be a reason that they are poor in their present life. But if they were good in a past life then that may be a reason why they are wealthy in their present life. And if a person does not handle their transgressions from past lives than they can't progress in their current life.
The way they handle this is by having 'auditing' sessions (which cost enormous amounts of money) which releases harmful energy from the mind and repressed memories from past lives. This supposedly helps the person to be happier in their current life and erases things from their past lives.

From what I learned it's all very expensive and it seems that if you are a poor person (which is your fault by the way in a scientologists point of view) you could never afford an auditing session and you could never progress and you would just continue to be reincarnated until you end up reincarnated into a cockroach or something.

Hinduism believes in reincarnation and has a caste system based on the same principle. It has worked just fine in Asia for millienia, I don't see why you would consider it foolish, Ismail.

http://www.friesian.com/caste.htm

A little less sarcasm, a little more tolerance and understanding, fella.

Irrelevant. It is not your place to judge someone's faith regardless of how plausable you think is or is not.

You said in another post somewhere that you cannot eat pork, which makes you either Jewish or Islamic. If I were to say not eating pork is nonsense or rubbished any other parts of either religion you'd be pretty narked, no?

Ismail:

Of course it may seem foolish to you. I might think Islam is foolish, but it is not my place to say that you are wrong in your beliefs. I don't agree with the Catholic faith, but that does not give me the place to stand up and say, "You all are wrong." It's called, "Religious Tolerance."

Bret never said he BELIEVED in Scientology. He was trying to understand maybe where these people are coming from. He was trying to broaden his horizons... You must not know much about Bret... Every time a religious debate comes up, he is the first to research both sides, and then make his opinion about the whole matter.

Your answer is irrevlevent, because it argues something that has no back up whatsoever.

~Ciao Lipton

Based on the whole money issue I am assuming this thing is a joke. Any religion that requires cash for you to be involved is obviously wrong.

Before you boys get back into it I have a couple questions:
-They use the symbol of the cross on some of their websites, I don't understand this. Do they believe in Christ or a whole other spiritual being, or one at all?
-How exactly is science and technology involved in the religion? I read that they believe to make peace with what science has given us and to use technology to create a peaceful world, but I don't get how they preach this or try to use this as part of a religion.

If there are any Scientology followers on the site, do join. I think we need an expert

Lads, I didn't even consider the caste system as part of my argument at all, although I did indeed research it. My point is all about respecting another's beliefs and being tolerant and open minded about it regardless of your own opinion.

Ismail, You might think that reincarnation and paying now for past sins is a load of old tosh, but it's religion, an incredibly major part of the 3rd largest religion known to mankind. Have you ever considered the fact that your religion might be wrong and theirs might be right? They only way you will know for sure is when you pop your clogs, mate.

Pink,

Money.. Catholics have a collection every week, I donate to my local free church gladly. Money is always a focal point for religion because money is always needed to survive. What I do not agree with is those wanky televangeists. I truly believe they exploit people of good faith for their own personal gain and I will never speak to one, let alone donate money to their cause.

The cross is most interesting and I did wonder about it myself. I think it might be a selling point, much like the use of Satan by LaVey's Satanism. Everybody needs a logo after all. It is on the official site, so i think it must be an integration of some sort. (I'll look into that more)

Science. Evolutionists see it black and white, "I believe in science, not God." I think Scientologists view it in a similar way that I do; as a way of further explaining God's work. this way science, technology and religion can be combined with out argument.

I too would love to hear the opinion of a Scientologist.

Ismail:

In case you haven't noticed (which apparently, you haven't) when someone begins to involve themselves in a debate with me, and I'm not around, Bret sometimes comes in and backs me up, or defends me. I was just repaying a favor. I'm sorry you were offended at my post.

Oh, and this is a discussion board, open to ALL users, not just you and whomever you happen to be talking to.

And if you really think about it (looking at this from a Scientologist point of view) then their reincarnation reasonings make sense. If you're bad in one life, your next life will be cursed. Same thing with most all beliefs. If you live out a bad life now, then once you die, the outcome will be negative, and vise versa.

It's not that Scientologists are trying to explain why Africa is all dying and poor, anyway.

~Ciao Lipton

And as Bret said, I would love to hear the insight of an actual Scientologist...

~Ciao Lipton

bret: I know about the collection plates, I've been doing the Catholic thing for 16 years. What I meant was money to be involved in the first place. Catholics have collection plates to pay for what they have, but money to set up a meeting? That's not right. The difference is whether or not the religion requires money. To request it or to demand it is a difference, or merely just to manipulate (I'm sure you're familiar with indulgences, 1517 I think)

Very good point, Pink.

Maybe new religion is a business as well these days, hence the marriage with technology. Maybe you can also buy Scientology cell phones and watches. Cynical with certainty, but more than a hint of truth?

Although it could be reverse psychology... after all most religions set the hook first, maybe Scientology is a pay as you go religious service (tip included in the initial fee). You get what you pay for in life afterall.

If I was a Hindu or Scientologist and said "I believe, with all of my being, that paying for my sins (or being rewarded for my actions) of a previous life in this one is central to my beliefs" what would your reply be?

At no point have you said that although it is not part of your religion you respect it as a basis of someone else's. You stated very clearly that that line of belief is just wrong. That is intolerance, Ismail. If that was not your intention then just say so and rephrase your thoughts.

Ismail:

"If a child had down-syndrome, i would not say to that child, it is because you were a horrible person in your previous life, that you got this. That is a horrid thing to say. I am tolerant and accepting of what is, and finding a foolish answer to poverty, disability and suffering in re-incarnation is the most foolish thing i have heard. I have heard the christians interpretation and i have seen a big distinction between the two."

You, apparently, didn't read my post.

~Ciao Lipton

If you don't have money then there is no need to be in the scientology cult. They tend to like rich people hense movie stars. Because the more you pay out the more "power" you get untill you reach the status of high clam.

Stupid in my book, but to each there own I guess.

I remember my friend Robert, who was at one time one of the best Cult counsellers in Edinburgh and Glasgow, telling me about a conversation Ron L Hubbard [ the guy who invented Scientology] has with a reporter friend of his who later went on to fight against Hubbard when he saw what negative effects his creation was having.

They were discussing the human need to believe, and how much potential money was involved in that need, and Hubbard said;

"lets sell them a piece of blue sky"

After that he invented Scientology...which basically tells people to do what they already know and charges them for the priviledge of being an enlightened alien hybrid.

What a croc!

"They were discussing the human need to believe,"

believe in what??

We've pretty much established that this thing is more than a business rather than religion, and the
"lets sell them a piece of blue sky" was actually quite offending. I do not get what they believe in. The symbol of the cross has been displayed on many of their websites, and we know that they believe in a tie between God and technology correct? so, do they believe in Christ? do they follow the bible if so? What could they possibly preach that tells us God speaks to us through science?

I am begging for a scientology follower to join

"They were discussing the human need to believe,"

believe in what??

Believe in anything. Anything that helps make the day turn to night and back to day.

We all cling to something at some basic, primitive level. Hubbard was saying he could make a LOT of money providing that something.

"Ok, fair enough, but alot of people are intolerant, even you. That is how people are."

You're right. I hate stupid and arrogant people. I have no time for them what so ever.

Did I say that? No, I didn't.

My perceptions have nothing to do with that comment. Stop looking for things that aren't there.

My answer recognises the fact that I know my own failings, nothing more, nothing less. I am human and far from perfect.

Ismail:

You should have read my quote. It would have saved you from being redundant.

~Ciao Lipton

Reicarnation isn't the most important facet of the scientologist theory.

They have this phenom called "engrams". Engrams are psychic and psychological scars that we impose on ourselves, or are imposed on us by others when something bad happens...say a car crash or sudden emotional shock...from these we get engrams that influence our behavoiur for the rest of our lives and stop us from evolving into the aliens we are.

Only scientology can remove these blocks...by revisiting the mental scene of the incident and letting it go.

whats funny is that isn't a new thing...in psychology it's called immersion therapy, but Scientologists claim that psychology is the enemy of spiritual developement...AND EVERYTHING THEY DO IS PURE PSYCHOLOGY!!

Check out Cultwatch.org....and then run away.

But, if you feel brave, go and get one of their "free personality tests. They suck...you will always come out as a depressed wasteful slob whose life is not worth living...unless...unless you pay them money so they can tell you how to talk to your kids...and your boss...and your dog.

RUN!!!

ps...can, Ismail, bret and Lipton please stop busting each other in every discussion.....dont make me mod you guys....

You got it, Kev, I was just about done with the carousel anyway.

Concerning Engrams and the like, I wonder if any media group have got anyong on the record concerning these contradictory issues.

I done got to take the personality test!

Nice one Bret, I do but keep the peace.

Go for it concerning the test. I recall last Edinburgh Festival they invaded my local park and placed this huge bright yellow tent right next to the main path thats leads into the heart of the city...and they had droves of peoples handing out flyers....i walked past and this kid, who was like 12 years old and walked right in front of me and handed me a leaflet

"Wanna have a chat about life" he said....
"Aye nae bother, come and talk to me when you've lived a bit more of yours" i replied briskly...though in fairness i ain't usually that quick on the uptake...i was expectly it from him...and he was a lay preacher with them....he frowned and went on to the next person.

A few days later i actually went into the tent...and after saying for the 10th time that i didn't need anyone to follow me around and explain the posters and displays they had, with titles like;

"Family life can be hard, and make you sad..unless you unleath your true communicative potential"

The pictures on these displays were like those awful Jehovah Witness books..all over exagerated characatures and morally simplistic reasoning in blurbs beside them.....i walked round laughing at it all...and once more i was accosted by a young guy...maybe this one was 14..and he tried to engage me in a discussion about life and faith.....needless to say i broke him open...and two adults came over, ushered him away and tried to talk me down...in the end they asked me to leave.

I walked out whistling the X-files tune...and for the rest of the festival they avoided me like the plague.

Pat on the back for me.

: )

Kevin, I dearly wish I could have seen that.
Reminds me of when a Jahova's witness tried to hand me a flyer at an airport, and when I refused she put her hand on my head muttered something about saving my soul, when I tried to leave she kept following me talking about how lost I was in the eyes of God...long story short it ended up with her flyers clogging up the women's restroom toilets and a very happy looking teenager was seen escorted by two large gentleman onto a plane.