vegans.. vegetarians.. the dreaded v's

i was just wondering if anyone here was vegetarian/vegan. i am vegan. an animal activist as well. it would be nice to talk to like-minded people. message me if u want.

inna

go vegs, go

i'm not a vegan/vegetarion but i'm open-minded. i think i've started a debate here whether we should eat meat or not. what do you want to talk about anyways?

i would recommend reading a book called "you dont need meat". it is filled with facts, studies, and research that supports the idea that humans are, in fact, herbivores by nature. its a good read, even if ur not a veg.

hey im a vegetarian!! i oppose cruelty to animals in any way, its disgusting the way animals are treated!

yes, animals are the most abused living things on this planet!!! animals are not ours to wear, eat, or exploit!!! FUR IS DEATH

Maybe you can find some bit of satisfaction with a recent California criminal prosecution. A conviction for animal cruelty resulted in the trial judge handing down a prison sentence of 25-years to life.

The man convicted had killed his dog in a violent fit of rage following a fight with his girlfriend whose name happened to be the same as the dog's.

you guys up for a debate?

i know i am

ok, i'll write some stuff people say pro and cons about vegetarian/vegan .

PRO- killing animals is cruel. some are endangered because people wanted to peel off their skin for outer wear. they once grazed and breathed and accompanied us.
---- say you have a neighbor who is an incredibly smart pig. let's call him Mr. P. Our pig is awfully smart that he can have a normal conversion with us humans. Mr. P. participates in the community and does everything he can to make the world a better place. he's extremely nice and forgiving to everyone. Humans eat pigs. would it be right to call a butcher and eat Mr. P?

CON- if we don't eat meat/animals, we don't get enough protein and energy. plus, lots of animals are born everyday. if we don't eat them- there'll be overpopulation which is bad for us humans.
-----say you were driving on a highway. a deer jumps in front of you, gets hit and dies. now the deer is already dead and there's nothing you can do about it. you bring it home and eat it. is that wrong?

~can't think of anything else right now, so...~

I am not a vegetarian, or a vegan and nor do intend to become one. I have no problem with other people do so, but I believe that is unecessary to refuse to eat animals. They were put on this earth for us. Were any cavemen vegetarians?

They weren't put on this earth for us to eat, humans made it that way. By refusing to eat animals we are standing up for what we believe in, simple as that. Here's one of my favourite quotes... it's so true!

People often say that humans have always eaten animals, as if this is a justification for continuing the practice. According to this logic, we should not try to prevent people from murdering other people, since this has also been done since the earliest of times.
--Isaac Bashevis Singer (1904- )

Oh, and you guys might find this site interesting. It's just a bunch of quotes and stuff regarding similar topics... lol hope you like ...

http://members.iinet.net.au/~rabbit/arquotes.htm

that is a GREAT site!! thanks so much for that!!

and that whole response about cavement eating animals, so there fore, so should we, . um... NO COMMENT *ahem ahem*

sarcasm in its purest form
lies just beneath the truth

INNA

... retracts

.. got hate mail. :(

Firt of all.....Homer rocks. :-)

Second of all, I am not a vegan or a vegetarian, I would die without red meat, but I completely respect the feelings of others who don't want to eat it. It is everyone's own perogative to decide what they will or won't eat.

I am a vegetarian! I had to do a report on it and some of the things they do are DISGUSTING and horribly cruel... Plus meat is sooo bad for you. Actually, my mom and best friend Rachel becamwe vegetarians, too after they read it. I find meat disgusting now, and sometimes the smell makes me feel sick (seriously). Anyways, ya....

i base not killing animals on the fact that they suffer. plants do not suffer--they have no sensory cells that allow them to feel pain.

THE REASON LIFE'S A BIITCH IS CUZ IN ORDER TO STAY ALIVE, ONE MUST KILL OTHER LIVING THINGS, ie plants and/or animals. HOWEVER, i believe that humans (just like our ape ancestors) are herbivores. our intestines, shape of teeth, shape of mouth, and other factors suggest this fact.
and i do not get offended when the topic of "murder of plants" comes up. he he

this is what i think
INNA

Ok, to the person who wrote this:
CON- if we don't eat meat/animals, we don't get enough protein and energy. plus, lots of animals are born everyday. if we don't eat them- there'll be overpopulation which is bad for us humans.
-----say you were driving on a highway. a deer jumps in front of you, gets hit and dies. now the deer is already dead and there's nothing you can do about it. you bring it home and eat it. is that wrong?

To answer the first one I say that that is COMPLETELY incorrect. Actually, from meat we get too much protein, which leads to early aging and sometimes cancer. And there will not be overpopulation as long as we don't mess around with their natural ways. How do you think they survived before we were here?
And to the second one: I answer your question with another question. What if a person dies? Do we eat them so that they are not wasted? Besides, if we don't kill the animals and they do die, there is a reason, and we probably don't want to eat them anyways. I, personally, think that if that happened to me, I would bury it and put flowers on its grave. (Of course I ADORE all animals) And another thing, getting hit by a car and bleeding to death is a lot less painful then the way they are killed in a slaughter farm.

And BTW i was not yelling at you, I was debating =) sorry I LOVE debating, 'specially about vegetarians! *MEAT IS MURDER* Anyways, in a slaughter farm, cows are skinned alive, cut down their throat, and hung upside down by one foot, while still alive. (Obviously you can't still be alive after you are skinned, but you get the picture) And 1/5 birds are thrown into bioling pots alive.

Chicky says: I AM NOT A NUGGET

Ahem...

Oh, and one more thing *i love doin this* the reason plant-killing is not cruel is cuz they have central-nervous systems. Actually, some vegetarians eat bugs, cuz they don't have central nervous systems, either.

i am part of peta. they are wonderful people with wonderful morals and high standards. although they may not have made the "best" decisions in the past, why do they get so outcasted? honestly, you people don't know what ur talking about. (not the people in this post, just the people who have been messaging me about it)

what is happening to the youth these days? sheesh!!!

inna
you are what u eat

Well said Erica and Inna!
Inna - how did you get involved in PETA? It sounds interesting, is there anything I can do to help, or become part of it?

tanya :D

... retracts

.. got hate mail. :(

tanya: go to www.peta.org then register to become a member and an activist. then watch the video called "meet ur meat" and if that doesnt turn u vegan, then i dont know what will.

inna

TO ERICA: don't worry about it. i looove debates also. sometimes, the more aggresive the better:)

my rebuttal for ("...how do you think we survived before we were here?...") is... i merely think animals ate each other. food chain. they spring at each other, lap up their meat, and leave their remains for other animals to feast on and rot. that's nature isn't it? have you ever watched the animal channel?

rebuttal for ("...what if a person dies?do we eat them...): no, we don't eat them. we give them a proper burial because it is the right thing to do and it's morally wrong to eat a human being. (LOOK AT THE NEXT POST) an ignorant way to put this is we wouldn't eat dead people because we already have meat & other food to eat. a more educated answer would be- you didn't have to eat the deer so it's not 'wasted'. it's just the question if you have sinned because you have accidentally killed an animal who jumped in front of you. the descent thing to do is yes, give it a proper burial also. but you've said it yourself that getting hit by a car is less painful than the way they do it in slaughter farm. you didn't slaughter the deer. you haven't expressed any cruelty to the deer as of now. some may say you have no right to eat the deer but then again... would it have been wrong if you ate the deer which you did not intend to kill?

RANDOM THOUGHTS FROM THE PREVIOUS POST:

(i saw this one from a riddle/logical thinking site)

what if you were stuck in an island with your partner (wife/husband/family member) and another stranger. you haven't eaten for a really long time and all three of you got separated. the stranger returns with 'meat' he claimes to be 'albatross' meat. you eat it and if you haven't you would've died. you got rescued the following day but only you and the stranger are found. you find out later that the supposed 'albatross' was really your partner. you've eaten them without knowing. have you sinned? would you have done it too (even if you do/don't know what you're eating)?

pls. answer this via email or create another thread so that we wouldn't go off-topic from the vegans/vegetarian debate!!!

Thanks Inna :D

If everyone here beleived in christianity then this would be an easy debate but since we don't another debate that will probably never be solved. I have no opinion when people who don't eat meat don't eat it because they don't like it or that they are just compassionate and don't like the fact they are eating something that was slaughtered, But too say meat is murder or that is it wrong is saying a little too much, i know that is your opnion but this is mine. Just let me humor myself and about the christianity thing, only if you beleive in it, But when noah built the ark, along with two animals of every kind God also told him to take seven of every cattle.... so they could eat, i believe cattle was put here for out food.

When cattle is slaughtered, they are not wasted, we eat the meat use their skin, almost everything is used. We keep on bringing up back in the day, well back in the day that is how people survived. They ate the meat and used the blatter for bags, they used the skin for blankets and clothes. THe animals are here for that purpose. You can't make shoes out of a plant, or a blanket, that is how people did before they had anything, so if they were vegetarians then no one would be alive today because you can't make it through a snowy winter making everything out of plants.
I know this will bring up other argumetns but the when farmers gather the wheat with their tractors animals are killed. They wheat many vegetariand only eat, is the cause of many deaths of animal. BUt the difference is these animals are wasted, they aren't used for food or to make anything. I know that is a long shot but it is true. You eat the grain that is plowed and in order to plow that an innocent animal is completely wasted. (i would like to give credit to maddox for this information, even though his was much more convincing then mine).
don't eat meat if you think it is cruel or you don't like it, but i think it is a pretty strong statement to actually tell others it is wrong and murder. That is why they are here.

just a note: vegetarians are people who choose not to EAT meat. vegans are people who choose not to USE anything made of animals (skins etc.)

to answer "do we need to eat animals now?" would be a great challenge. true, we probably don't need to slaughter them and eat them, but then again, why not? yes, it's cruel and it's barbaric. but what if you've been eating it your whole life? don't you feel the certain 'need' to eat it again?
this is probably a lame example but then again, we know that humans in the past also fought each other for entertainment or to protect themselves etc. but what about boxing and wrestling and those kinds of sports? do we need to fight and do them now?

yeah, i never thought there are people who would completely give up anything made of animals. considering our economy today, that's a pretty hard thing to maintain huh? :)

"He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man..."
--Isaiah 66:3

I'm not Christian but that disproves the theory that animals were put on earth for the sole purpose to be eaten. And Concealing Words, you said that saying killing animals is murder and is wrong is a strong statement, well so is saying animals are here to be eaten!
Animals are not the play things of humans, they aren't inferior to us, animals suffer, just the same as humans do, and in suffering animals are our equals.
If someone murders a baby or child they are looked upon as monsters, murders etc because they are killing something weaker than them, something unable to defend themselves.. yet killing animals is the exact same thing, the only difference is that the animals can't speak and tell us how much they are hurting, but that doesn't make it alright.

hmm... i remember reading this certain story in the bible but that was a long time ago when i read it. i think it's when God sent manna and birds for the people Moses carried with him so that they wouldn't starve.

the irony of this story is that it serves both sides. He sent manna which is bread... but also let birds fly low so that the people could catch them and eat them...

Isaiah 66:3
Speaks of offerings, and sacrifices, burning incences to the gods. He said that this is wrong and it is an abomination. It does have anything to do with consuming the ox/bull.

here is the whole passage:
==============================
Isaiah 66
Judgment and Hope
1 This is what the LORD says:

"Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
Where is the house you will build for me?
Where will my resting place be?
2 Has not my hand made all these things,
and so they came into being?"
declares the LORD .

*** (meaning that we do not need to build anything for Him, because everything was made by Him. Unlike the Pagan gods (Rome, Egypt, Norse, who build great temples and sacrifces for thier gods)

continue:
"This is the one I esteem:
he who is humble and contrite in spirit,
and trembles at my word. (this is all he ask, as opposed to ... (below))

3 But whoever sacrifices a bull
is like one who kills a man,
and whoever offers a lamb,
like one who breaks a dog's neck;
whoever makes a grain offering
is like one who presents pig's blood,
and whoever burns memorial incense,
like one who worships an idol.
They have chosen their own ways,
and their souls delight in their abominations;
4 so I also will choose harsh treatment for them
and will bring upon them what they dread.
For when I called, no one answered,
when I spoke, no one listened.
They did evil in my sight
and chose what displeases me."

Here is some more knowledge for Christian Vegetarians, or Vegies concerning
God’s views on eating meat?

In Genesis 1:28, God tells Adam and Eve to “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

Later in Deuteronomy 14, Moses restates the law given to him by God as for as dietary laws are concerned. Starting in Deuteronomy 14:4, the law states, “These are the animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the goat, the deer, the gazelle, the roe deer, the wild goat, the ibex, the antelope and the mountain sheep. You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud.” Deuteronomy 14 continues to tell of animal, fish and birds that you can eat and cannot eat.
==============================
Did Jesus eat meat?

Aside from the many passages in the Bible where Jesus eats fish with his disciples, He also ate lamb at least once a year. You must understand that Jesus was a Jew and a practicing Jew at that. Once a year all Jews celebrated Passover. In the Passover ritual, one of the steps was slaying a pure lamb and then cooking and eating the meat.

The Last Supper in the Bible is actually the Passover Supper. Therefore, the night before Jesus was crucified, He ate lamb.
==============================

Genesis 9: 2-3

All animals, birds, reptiles, and fish will be afraid of you. I have placed them under your control, and I have given them to you for food. From now on, you may eat them, as well as the green plants that you have always eaten.
=============================

To say that eating meat is wrong, is to say that God Almighty is wrong. Are you prepared to make that statement.
The way they are treated is wrong.
To eat them is not murder. Murder applies to the image of God, Us, if you kill someone, in a sense you are killing God's image.
-- Would He send us to kill them, eat them, and then condemn us as murderers? Is Jesus disgusting because he ate meat, and fishes. He himself saw the fishes gasping for air in the fish basket and thought nothing of it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you are not a Christian then.. you might have an argument.
BTW.. With much respect to Christians and Jews.
.. I am not a Cristian

Hey, thanks for the info David. And I'm not a Christian either, and I don't follow the bible at all, so if I was looking at it from the Christian perspective saying that eating meat is wrong would be like saying God Almighty is wrong as Jesus ate fish etc.. but you're right, I'm not prepared to make such a statement, because I know alot of people would disagree with me.
But just because God says its ok, does that make it ok? In my opinion it doesnt, because its the individuals own choice, whatever religion they might be.
And in no way am I saying that the beliefs of Christians is wrong at all, so sorry if I've offended anyone..
The way I see it is that every creature, every human, every animal is equal and no-one has the right to take away the life of a living, breathing being... even God....
but thats just me... :)

this whole thing brings us to yet another debatable philisophical question: where does morality come from? yeah, i feel that we're currently attached to this question whichever way we look at it.

Did you guys know that our intestines, which are extremely long, as not designed to easily handle meat, which as i'm sure you all know, teads to rot and putrify after a couple of days in our guts.

Lions and other Carnivores have very small intestines so that the large amounts of meat they eat doesn't sit in their system for a long time and cause them health problems.

I.E...our bodies are naturally set up to process greens, fruit etc....which can sit in our stomachs for a long time, thus we get all the goodness out of them without illness.

Also, back onto the subject of animals, did you guys know the first part of any animal a lion eats is the stomach...specifically whats inside...which is partially digested grass...as they know it's the best part for them...they just can't digest it very well themselves.

Strange that eh?....i know we have teeth for slicing meat...but, well....i like to use those same sharp teeth for slicing apples and carrots.

I eat meat maybe once every few months...and the only the best.

Does it honestly matter?

You're breathing in and out, doing the shutty eye thing and writing. Whether you only eat salad or live on raw veal laced with tabasco is irrelevant.

Live your life the way you want to and let others do the same. Anyway, forcing your opion on someone more often than not makes them rebel against it anyway.

i don't think i could ever bring myself to be a vegan. although i don't eat anything from pigs or cows. and i've always hated fish anyway.

im no vegan, or vegetarian, i imagine i wouldn't enjoy eating if i were, but i respect those who are...why do vegans/vegetarians...think its okay to put down those who eat meat, when a lot of us dont care what you do...why should you care what we choose to do, im not trying to steriotype vegans or anything, but thats usually how it has gone for me, they just get all uppety when i eat, its not like i care if they choose to not eat red meat or fish or anything that lives...i think its silly, but i dont care, when they try with passion to push there eating habbits on me...a ? that id liked answered, and im open-minded...so...go for it