This Site is in need of some CONTROVERSY so....!!

Your man Donald has banned transgender people from enlisting??? This is America's president who. as far as I can see...never served his country..so...what are you thought's people? Does he have any rights to say who could potentially defend America based on their gender when, realistically he dodged the Vietnam draft based on this...

https://www.bustle.com/p/donald-trumps-vietnam-draft-documents-are-going-viral-in-light-of-his-transgender-military-ban-72718

I'm absolutely opposed to this (shocking some of you, I know lol) but I have been on this journey in the past year or so to try and come up with the "least creepy explanation" as to why people do what they do. It helps me remove my feelings and not be so incredibly overwhelmed over what I can't control. I have a vote and I can speak out and yes I get that, but I literally cannot call Trump up and change his mind. Wish I could. Gimme a phone. I'll do it! lol

"we're talking about a cost somewhere between $2.4 million and $8.4 million — pocket change when you consider total health care costs and military spending. "

Playing devil's advocate here, I see that he is claiming finances are a huge reason (insert eye roll), and 2.4-8.4 million is tossed out in this article like it isn't a lot of money. But it is. Maybe not in the grand scheme and like they state, it's pocket change in comparison. Yes, that's absolutely true. But what needs to be done is reforming other things instead of just saying "well let's just throw more money at it". Reforming and changing and making healthcare more affordable. This isn't by giving free healthcare to everyone (stay with me, folks), but it's to DECREASE the cost of liability, open insurance lines to make it more competitive where you can shop around, change the way our Medicaid system works. I did medical billing for years, and it's appalling to see how it works.

Say you have a bill for $100.
Medicare (senior insurance)'s allowable is $102. They pay about 20% ($20)
Medicaid's "allowable" is $98 (of the original CPT code)
You have to write off 100% of the bill, because it's over their allowable.

80% is now written off. 20% is more likely covering the true cost, but y'know. Greed.

So then we have other insurances (let's take mine for example, Blue Cross).
I just had an emergency room visit (I boiled my hand, I don't advise it). The total bill was $802 (don't get me started, they did NOTHING and I sat there for 5 hours, tried to push oxy on me. MY HAND IS BURNT I NEED BURN CREAM. Okay. I'm done I promise)

My insurance applied $100 to my co-pay. Okay sure, I knew that was coming up.
Then they applied $402 and change to my deductible - $1,500 deductible and since I never goto the doctor, that made sense, too. Even though we pay $400/mo for insurance and never use it, but sure.

They paid $190 and wrote off the remaining balance per their contract with the hospital.
If I had Medicaid, the whole balance would've been written off. So they have to increase their prices to get it covered. It's a flippin' mess.

If we had some true insurance reform (because really they dictate healthcare sadly enough) then maybe we could cut HEAPS of cost all across the board with the VA, Medicare, Medicaid (the three that taxpayers pay into)..

and then we wouldn't be able to use finances as a poor excuse to belittle and wound transgender people.

If someone, ANYONE, and this includes illegal immigrants/transgender, gay/straight/confused/celibate/purple/Christian/Muslim/Atheist/insertwhateveryouwant here, and put their life on the line and sacrifice their time and family for this country, WHY WOULD WE STOP THEM. What if we had the best Navy Seal team EVER that was a group of transgender people - bet they'd look the other way then.

Ugh this makes me so mad.

Utterly despicable. Fortunately, his ridiculous ban is being opposed and resisted. I want to say, "there's no way this shit will fly," but I also thought there was no way my country would elect this ass-clown as POTUS, and we did. Hellon, did you hear about Trump's speech to Boy Scouts? YUCK. I miss the Obamas...

Thinking about the current President puts acid in my stomach.

Even I miss the Obamas, and I'm the resident Conservative around here lol.

I try not to get too excited over what he puts on twitter.

I wait.

I know that by noon someone in his own admin will walk in & tell the emperor he's wearing no clothes.

OK I normally dodge stuff like this but it's hooked me, be warned I will swear at some point.

Britt, I get your point about the financial side of things and of the health care system in general. Here we contribute roughly about 8 percent of our earrings to fund our national health service. I don't mind, even though I'm generally never ill ( one day I will be). It's the ones who screw the system and won't work that grip my sh!t. Hey ho you're always gonna get that.

I digress, and to the bones of the post.

So what if a person is transgender, gay, bisexual or what ever. Who gives a flying a fu€k. If they have your back and you have theirs, you stand a greater chance of surviving.

If you can do the same job, carry the same weight and shoot that f×cking riffle, I couldn't give a flying f×€k about your sexually or gender. We would be keeping each other alive.

Jesus,! women were not even allowed in active combat not so long ago. Times change, attitudes must do so.

Trump is a buffoon.

That is why I responded to this thread.

Sorry if I sounded a bit techy but it needed said.

Regards

Craig

Funny as an expletive I'm not allowed to type dude.

Once again he seems to have opened his mouth and let his belly rumble without giving much thought to the outcome. Every time I see him on TV and, that's a whole lot, I either cringe or raise my eyebrows in disbelief...on the up side, my face gets a good workout every time Donald's on the telly:) Seriously, what's next? Banning left handed people from signing up because their life span is 10 years less than right handers haha!! Do you still have conscription over there BTW?

Jane, I did watch his Boy Scout speech...what can I say? I'm still trying to figure out what it was all about LOL!!!

Larry, my dad said the same thing. My parents were visiting for a couple days (they just left, I'm sad) and we talked about the transgender ban. He said I shouldn't get excited (yet) because Trump's twitter is a bunch of hot hair. It is difficult for me to remain calm, which is probably obvious by my last post.

"Even I miss the Obamas, and I'm the resident Conservative around here lol."

Britt, this made me laugh. I feel bad that you have such a crappy figure in the White House representing Conservatives. It's truly an injustice.

"Jane, I did watch his Boy Scout speech...what can I say? I'm still trying to figure out what it was all about LOL!!!"

Hellon, good point! The man is certainly not eloquent or to the point. Even his bragging and insults can be hard to follow because he jumps all over the place. Anyway, apparently the Head of the Boy Scouts apologized after Trump's speech. I have to shake my head when the Boy Scouts are apologizing for the President's behavior/speech. We are a joke and I can't stand it.

On Trump's defense:
He's taken George W off the hot seat as the worst pres ever
He has great press (other than the 90% of the news that's "fake")
He's united the country - after all, who was the last president who pissed off the Republicans, the Democrats, the Tea partiers, the liberals, the LGBTs, the Boy Scouts and AARP?

LOL Larry!!!

You only mentioned people he has pissed off in his own country. What about Mr Macron? I'm pretty sure he wasn't impressed by Mr Trump's comments about the great shape his wife was in! Then there's his claim that Japan's first lady had not one word of English when clearly the very smart lady was just ignoring him :) Then there's the weird hand shakes, I mean, what's the deal with them? I heard that he's demanding to ride in the queen's open carriage..WTF! Who does he think he is?

Is there anyone who supports him on this transgender thing? If so, I'd love to hear from you. It's always good to examine both sides of the argument I think.

Larry,

I read this to Jim, he almost peed his pants laughing so hard!

Omg Larry hahahahahahahah yes.

Hellon, I would be shocked if someone agreed with Trumps plan. Half of my family does, the uber conservative Christian ones. Breaks my heart.

Maybe i am over thinking this but i hate seeing people support trans people just because of the military ban. Where are you everyday when we need you most?

Jamie,
Simply because we are vocal about the attempt to ban transgender from the military doesn't mean we're not also vocal the rest of the time as well.

Hey Jamie, I get what you mean. I was surprised by a few people on my Facebook who made posts regarding their outrage over Trump's proposed ban of transgender individuals in the military. I had never heard them voice an opinion about the LGBTQ community until now, and it does make me wonder why. What specifically has struck a chord with so many people? What about this specific comment/intended action by Trump is riling people up who have otherwise remained un-riled?

Maybe this was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I think you're right, Britt.

Really interesting question, Jamie. I can only think that the same brand of American that is stereotyped as a religious transphobe is also a devout gun-totin' patriot, and the latter value is rising up in this case. Like Larry, I'm glad Trump is at least disgusting everyone uniformly here.

I was going to avoid this thread, simply because I have a feeling I'll be public enemy number one for playing devil's advocate but, after reading each post carefully and considering the situation carefully, I can't help feeling the issue has been oversimplified and unfairly analysed by this thread so far, and maybe the public in general. Remember, it's only the ones protesting we hear - there are an awful lot of people who are quiet and probably reasonably happy with Trump's decision.
Firstly, I would like to point out that, in a perfect world, homosexuals, transgender, or anyone with any sexual orientation could all serve harmoniously and - perhaps most importantly - happily in the army. And that's what I would like to see. And that doesn't just apply to the military; wouldn't it be nice if we were all so accepting of each other the world over and in every day life. (I believe that touches on what Jamie said too - the problem is far vaster than the military).
However, the question Trump has to ask is this: Are the armed forces as harmonious, efficient and disciplined when the soldiers who are already there are suddenly sharing bunks with those who are transgender - honestly? Sounds harsh, and this won't be to everyone's liking, but let's call a spade a spade. Some of these guys are hard, old-fashioned men who come from hard, old fashioned military backgrounds and if there is any chance that they are uneasy in this scenario, the forces will not run as efficiently. Also, and perhaps more importantly, the happiness, wellbeing and perhaps even safety for these soldiers who are transgender could be in question. Is that, under any circumstances, acceptable in a military scenario where life and death are literally on the line?
I hate Trump, with a passion in fact. I hate that, in the 21st century, we are even discussing this. But the problem is still there and it's got nothing to do with Trump. If society were so accepting of those who are transgender , it wouldn't even be an option for Trump to ban them from the armed forces - this debate wouldn't exist. The problem needs dealing with at a base level, and acceptance needs building up over time and through education. Throwing people into the lion pit and saying, 'there we are, get on with it, there's no problem there', is dangerous and - ultimately - a lie.
It's very easy to Trump bash - I do it daily - but tarnishing him with the brush of blame for humanities bigotry is short-sighted and far too simple an answer. The fact is, it isn't such a simple problem to solve and everyone will have different opinions (I wonder what the average soldier thinks). I very much doubt Trump does it for any other reason than he is an old-fashioned bigot, not because he has reasoned the fors and againsts of the debate. As above, the problem runs far deeper than that cretin and it isn't as easily solved as this thread has so far made out, in my opinion.
I hope people take this as it's meant and anyone of you who know me at all (and there are a fair few on here) know I am an open-minded and honest sort of chap and hate how minority groups are treated as much as the next guy. I just don't think this argument's black and white.

All the best to you all.

Ben, I appreciate your drawing counters to this thread. It should never be the case one should fear to disagree.

Regarding the arguments you put forth:

First, the "silent majority" is easily attributed but difficult to validate. There are at least four reasons people are silent: 1) they agree with Trump & have no beef with his order, 2) they Disagree with Trump but are happy to let others protest for them, 3) they disagree but are scared to speak out on such an unpopular subject, 4) they just don't care. Fact is the silent are used to justify any given position, yet they remain without any true voice.

Second, remember that no one has suddenly been thrust into sharing bunks with transgenders or anyone else. The policy Trump is rescinding has been in place in one form or another for over 23 years. Clinton instituted the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy in February 1994. The policy developed into "don't pursue, don't harass."
In 2011 the President, the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Secretary of Defense all responded to a mandate by Congress confirming that allowing openly gay persons into the armed forces would not harm military readiness. In 2010 a federal appeals court had already ruled against the ban. Up to this point I am not aware of any instance in which an openly gay enlisted person has jeopardized any operation.

Third, I challenge any argument that policy should cater to the lowest morality held by any few enlisted men. If such an attitude held sway we would still have a racially segregated armed force without women. Transgender soldiers are simply one more issue with which such "hard old fashioned soldiers" must learn to deal.

I fully appreciate your response, Larry, in regards to the information you provide and your opinion. I should perhaps point out, though, I do not 'disagree' with the thrust of the thread, only in oversimplifying a more complex problem and blaming societies bigotry on Trump. I stand by what I said: Trump is not the issue - their are prejudices that run rife throughout society and that's what needs dealing with and then these debates wouldn't even exist. My only real point - and it certainly wasn't one of disagreement - was that perhaps the issue was a little more complex than Trump. The policies you mention are, in truth and in practical terms, a joke. If you are sharing a room or any amount of time with a person, I think most adults of any age will soon start to suspect a transgender, and, in turn, possibly become uncomfortable.
Also, in regards to the safety and acceptance of these soldiers, is it inconceivable that they will then be subjected to bullying of the worst kind, considering what we have seen leaked of our soldiers' behaviour towards innocents in the middle east in the past? Telling people to 'learn to deal' isn't always so simple with all due respect, Larry, and in the meantime an awful lot of damage can be done to an individual.

Ben, if you are saying that Trump is merely a representation of a "faceless" population, then I agree. It's easy to blame everything on him. He is the face of a group. The mascot. All that he is doing and has done would not be possible on his own. He was elected by people who supported/condoned his stances and his goals. The people who elected him, stand by and say nothing now, or continue to outspokenly support him -they are the ones truly responsible. Checks and balances. Trump can't do anything without support and/or obedience. More attention needs to be paid to those who make Trump possible, so to speak. We need to recognize that these issues of transphobia exist with or without the POTUS. Yes. I agree with that if that's what you mean.

Abby: the thought had admittedly crossed my mind. People who idolize the military may be prioritizing that value over their anti-trans values. Kind of a depressing thought.

Jane, that is exactly my point. In no way do I condone prejudice in any form to any one, but Trump is just the tip of the iceberg, and the ignorance and bigotry that runs far deeper than him is the crux of the problem that needs dealing with. Until then, these debates will continue, and there will be issues within the army and elsewhere whether we like to admit it or not.

I'm glad that this thread seems to be opening up slightly and people are giving their opinions...that's great! Please remember, there is no wrong opinion...it may just be different from the majority.

I just feel that, by doing what he's done (or hopes to achieve) Trump has put the LGBT community back 20 years or more.

Ben...you state...

Some of these guys are hard, old-fashioned men who come from hard, old fashioned military backgrounds and if there is any chance that they are uneasy in this scenario, the forces will not run as efficiently. Also, and perhaps more importantly, the happiness, wellbeing and perhaps even safety for these soldiers who are transgender could be in question. Is that, under any circumstances, acceptable in a military scenario where life and death are literally on the line?

Maybe these hard, old-fashioned men with old fashioned military back grounds need to embrace the world for what is is now...maybe their uneasiness comes from 'acts' they themselves performed that were hidden under the carpet and now, may surface? Who knows...I don't really care.

You speak of sharing a room with a transgender person and how that may be awkward...how about sharing a trench with one and knowing this person has your back regardless?

Like I said...great to see the coin being flipped...and, hopefully it has opened up the thread for more opinions???