Poets please be aware....

  • Hellon
    3 months ago

    I've had two members approach me asking why they could not nominate my most recent poem which is still less than a week old. One of them asked a mod and was informed that...because it was posted on 24th Feb, which was a Saturday (at least here in Australia) when the site was in 'lock down' for the judges to consider the nominations for that week my poem was then considered as 'old' and therefore, not eligible for nomination for the next week although at that point it could only have been around 4 days old and, from what I thought to be the 7 day rule for an eligible poem should still have been eligible. There is one poem up there on the nominations that was posted on the same date as mine that the site accepted, I'm not sure which country they are from and whether their particular time zone was relevant but...hey both poems were posted on the same P&Q date...24th Feb...so...yeah...I want to know why one was eligible and one wasn't???

  • Tony replied to Hellon
    3 months ago, updated 3 months ago

    Australia is 10 to 11 hours ahead of the UK... other than that, no idea.

  • silvershoes
    3 months ago

    I don't believe any time zone is relevant on PnQ besides PnQ time, which is Eastern Standard Time (EST). It seems to me like a site glitch...

  • Larry Chamberlin
    3 months ago, updated 3 months ago

    It is now a mystery to me. Until You pointed out the second poem with the same date I would have said unequivocally that none could be nominated during that time. I first ran into the situation when someone wanted to nominate a poem of mine that was posted after a Friday midnight.

    Now I wonder if the date on the poem is PnQ time or your local time.

    On the other hand, perhaps the lock out occurs after midnight - at some point during early Saturday morning. Between you and the UK is 8 hours difference. (You are 1 3 hours ahead of New York, the other member is 5 hours ahead). If you posted 7 hours after her, it is possible the lock out occurred in the interval.

  • Hellon replied to Larry Chamberlin
    3 months ago

    I couldn't be sure what time I actually posted the poem so, I guess we can't go down that avenue. I do have a couple of questions though...both members said they tried to nominate the poem but were unable to do so which makes me think that the nomination button did actually show up on the poem. One of them suggested I move the poem to another genre which I did (Misc) and they were still unable to nominate it so, I believe this is when the member asked a mod and was told what I've previously provided, the poem was 'old'.

    The other question...even after the 'lock-down' was lifted this poem was still less than 7 days old and should still have been eligible and yet, for some reason, it wasn't, have the rules changed?

  • Hellon
    3 months ago, updated 3 months ago

    Here is another poem, also posted on 24th Feb and, although it has not been nominated, it still has the nomination button available...

    http://www.poems-and-quotes.com/poems/1264845

    So...if my poem was deemed 'too old' after the lock-down was removed how come this one wasn't?

  • Rania Moallem replied to Hellon
    3 months ago

    "but were unable to do so which makes me think that the nomination button did actually show up on the poem. One of them suggested I move the poem to another genre which I did (Misc) and they were still unable to nominate "

    I'm one of the members who tried to nominate that poem, but no, the "nomination button" was never there in the 1st place when I saw the poem and inquired about it.

  • Hellon
    3 months ago, updated 3 months ago

    So now...I have successfully nominated the poem I left a link to earlier. The one I highlighted previously..please don't confuse this with the other one which was posted on the same date as mine and was accepted earlier in the week. This is the other one I brought to everyone's attention and, guess what...posted on the same date as mine...has to be six days old by now and...yip...the site has accepted my nomination also...FTW???

  • Larry Chamberlin
    3 months ago

    Back last year when Janis was here he fielded a complaint from some member that poems not chosen one week should not be allowed to compete the next week. He responded that he agreed and made that change without telling the mods exactly what was involved or what the parameters are. I suspect he put some nebulous coding in without debugging it so that there are unexpected consequences that need him here to correct.

    Yet another reason he has no business being away for so long.

  • Hellon replied to Larry Chamberlin
    3 months ago

    That doesn't explain to me why the other two poems, with the same date, were acceptable. Also, if a poem wasn't nominated in that particular week it has not competed and, if it's still only a few days old why shouldn't it still be eligible?

  • silvershoes
    3 months ago

    "I suspect he put some nebulous coding in without debugging it so that there are unexpected consequences that need him here to correct."

    I suspect the same.

  • hiraeth replied to silvershoes
    3 months ago

    Agreed. I've noticed poems being posted "a day ahead" when it was 11pm in EST before. Someone else had mentioned to me that posting from the saved drafts tab, puts up the wrong date. I'm chalking it up to bugs that need to be fixed.

  • Larry Chamberlin
    3 months ago

    I was just able to nominate a poem @ 2:11 am PnQ time

  • Hellon replied to Larry Chamberlin
    3 months ago

    I've just nominated one and it's just before 5 pm on 3rd March here in Perth. I'm now waiting to see if the other poems posted on the same date will be eligible after the site reloads.

  • Hellon
    3 months ago

    It's now just after 7 pm here in Perth and another 5 poems have been posted still dated 3rd March and yes...still all have the nomination button there so...I'm figuring it must be 6 am on the P&Q clock and still the nominations can take place so...this blows all previous theories out of the water IMO...

    Like I said...I'll be looking to see what happens on the other side of the lock-down...

  • Hellon
    3 months ago

    It is now 8.35 pm here in Australia and the nomination button is still available on new poems posted today.

    What I have taken from this is that no one else really gives a shit if it's not their poem so...in the past I have always supported a member I believe has been given a raw deal whether I had gone to loggerheads with them previously or not but...to have absolutely not one of them come forward on the main threads to even question what is going on right now leaves me just wondering...yip...just wondering...

  • Larry Chamberlin
    3 months ago

    You’re right about all theories being wrong, but usually in such cases the new data gives rise to new theories. This time I have none.

  • naaz
    3 months ago, updated 3 months ago

    Hi, I was the second person who wanted to nominate. Hellon, tell me, how can I help you?

    Hellon, I know you are disappointed and so I am along with your other friend who too wanted to nominate the poem but couldn't do it.

    But, we can only tell the moderators and as they are saying that nothing in their hands. Janis, the owner of the site, knows every detail of the website development. The moderators just know how to keep this site on track, but they can't make any ammendment.

    In so many other threads, we all put so many ideas in front of the moderators to change certain things in the site. The only answer we got from the moderators that certain things were not in their hands.

    I think jane has already mentioned that she would do definitely about this issue.

    Hellon, I join you in this problem you faced regarding the nomination. But, like you, I can only request them or ask them certain questions. At the end of the day, they know what's in their hands or what's not. You can't know until you become a moderater.

    So either trust them, have complete faith in them, be sure that they gonna do something for sure so that in future no one will have to face such problem or become a moderater and see for yourself that which actions are in the hands of the moderators.

    But, me or anyone from the site can either request them or ask them about this and the answer you already knew.

  • hiraeth
    3 months ago

    For anyone wondering here's how it should work:

    Monday -> Saturday (10 am EST I think), poems submitted are eligible to be nominated. At 10 am, the site 'closes', any poems posted after should be eligible for next week's contest afaik.

    I have seen poems posted that show up a day ahead around 11pm-12am in EST, so what I think might be happening is the poems are being posted by using the person who's submitting timezones which is leading to this issue, I think. Hard to say conclusively without Janis being here.

  • silvershoes
    3 months ago

    Okay, this might sound stupid, but... can a poem only be nominated by one person? I believe that’s the case since Janis overhauled the site. If so, what happens if that person nominates a poem and then deletes their account? Is it possible the poem would disappear from the nominations page and the nomination button would also be gone since it was used once? Just trying to come up with other hypotheses to test.

  • hiraeth replied to silvershoes
    3 months ago

    Yep, a poem can only be nominated by one person. The poem should still remain in the nomination list, afaik but haven't tested it out.

  • Hellon replied to naaz
    3 months ago, updated 3 months ago

    Naaz...thank you for your concern but I think you have misunderstood what I'm trying to say. Being nominated for the contest (which is always an honour and, usually a complete surprise to me) does not guarantee a win so...this was not really about me or my poem it was more about is there a problem "gliche" in the system that others may not be aware of and, I had only become aware of it myself after you and Nana pm'd me so, I thought it was only right to bring it to everyone's attention.

    I am not disappointed in the aspect of my poem not being eligible for nomination, although I will continue to observe what happens next week , I was, however, disappointed in the lack of interest in my concerns because, the response from the mods was inconclusive so, I would personally have been like a dog with a bone to get a satisfactory answer regardless of who's poem it was so...yes, the disappointment lies there.

  • hiraeth replied to Hellon
    3 months ago

    We can't conclusively say what the problem is, since it lies in code and Janis is the only one with access to that.

    That being said, here's proof of it being buggy:

    https://i.gyazo.com/3c5070f411cc5977bdec26880a7a6660.png
    I believe satish is in india, which would mean that he is 11ish hours ahead of time, which accounts for the later post date of march 5th, instead of march 4th. I'm assuming this is what occurred with nomination as well; it using the local time of the poet rather than one central time/est.

  • Hellon replied to hiraeth
    3 months ago

    Ok...I understand that but, this poem should still be eligible for nomination when the site updates right?

  • Larry Chamberlin
    3 months ago

    It seems to me that every poem written should be eligible for nomination for seven days after it is written, regardless of when it it written. So, yes, any poem blocked by the cutoff for one weekend should be eligible when the block is lifted.

    That's my personal opinion. What do others think?

  • Hellon replied to Larry Chamberlin
    3 months ago

    That's what I always though was the rule however, I've just checked on the poems posted on 3rd March which was also a Saturday, the same day as my poem fell into the 'cyber hole' at p&q. I nominated the poem In Ellsworth before the site went into lock down. If you look at the list of poems posted after my nomination went through you will see that the next poem which has the nomination button available is Within the Rain by C Cattaway also posted on 3rd March. There are 10 poems in between these two that were all posted on this date and, all 10 of them have fallen into the same 'cyber hole' as mine. I know, to some this thread may have sounded like sour grapes on my part, although I was only making members aware of what happened and giving them the choice as to whether they wished to take the chance of posting on the weekend and now, after seeing these results I'd say we definitely have a bit of a dilemma going on.

  • Jamie replied to Hellon
    3 months ago

    To be honest i think what you state has been happening since the "new site" was made.

  • Larry Chamberlin
    3 months ago

    Yes, it is a dilemma, and I think Raven is probably close to correct. It's likely been happening since Janis started the block on nominations.
    As I said before, he popped the block into place and promptly disappeared without checking to see if there were undesirable consequences.

    Not being able to nominate good poems because of their posting time is about as undesirable as you can get on a poetry site.

    The bad news is that we have only two courses of action. No, that's wrong. We really have one course of action: a band aid and a fix:
    - The band aid is that we determine exactly when a posting will cast a poem into limbo, then tell everyone not to post during that period.
    - The fix is to have Janis recode the problem when he returns.

    So, Hellon (and anyone else) what time period do you think encompasses the problem? We need to narrow it down as much as possible.
    Once we determine that period we can do a mass PM to the site warning the poets.

  • Hellon replied to Larry Chamberlin
    3 months ago

    That seems fair enough to me and should be quite easy to implement. Maybe post the link to the EST clock so that members are aware of the time difference and how it will affect the 'age' of their poem if they post close to the time the site cuts off for judging. For me here in Australia (if my math is correct) any time on a Saturday morning before 11 am is not a good time as it clumps my poem with all the other submissions from the previous week.

    Thank you mods for your time and efforts in acknowledging the problem and coming up with a solution to solve it until Janis returns.

  • Larry Chamberlin
    3 months ago, updated 3 months ago

    To all members. Due to a software glitch poems which are posted on Saturday are unable to be nominated for the weekly contest. Please hold off posting your poem beginning Friday midnight EST (New York City time) through Saturday midnight (New York City time). You may verify your local time compared to EST here:

    https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/usa/new-york

    For those who have stated you do not want your poems in competition, please post your poems during the blocked period and you will not suffer the nomination.

    Hellon, what do you think? Also, does that cover all periods?

  • Hellon replied to Larry Chamberlin
    3 months ago, updated 3 months ago

    I think that pretty much covers everything Larry so, thank you and the others for staying with me in this thread and working out the problem.

    I think it's up to the individual member to check the EST clock if they wish their poem to be eligible for the next weeks contest now that they are aware of the problem.

    To be quite honest...I feel a number of members have been quite aloof with regards to the content of this thread but...I wonder how many will actually post a poem next weekend if they think the time frame may prevent a nomination. Be warned...I will be watching :)

  • Rania Moallem replied to Hellon
    3 months ago

    .I wonder how many will actually post a poem next weekend if they think the time frame may prevent a nomination. Be warned...I will be watching :)

    ^ lool, I admire your sense of humor Hellon!

    And happy to see that a solution has been suggested until further notice!

  • naaz
    3 months ago, updated 3 months ago

    I set the clock.