President George Bush..

Holy Crap... Okay lemme give this a shot:

1. Although illegal (reference: international law, ICJ court ruling), I do think entering Afghanistan was the right thing to do.

2. Although the government grossly misinterpreted data, I think going into Iraq was a good idea. I think Saddam was a terrible person, and by getting rid of him we will still end up saving more lives than has been lost in the war.

3. The United Kingdom is not the U.S.A's bitch (reference opinions concerning stances towards Iran).

4. The U.S.A would never ever enter into war with any of the following countries (unless they attack first):
-Canada
-Mexico
-China
-Japan
-Germany
-the UK
-South Korea
-France
-Taiwan
-Italy
-Venezuela
-Ireland
-Saudi Arabia
-Malaysia
(reference http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/top/dst/2004/11/deficit.html
and http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/top/dst/2004/11/balance.html
as far as trade and deficits go)

5. reason for #4 is as follows:
by participating in international trade, including the immensely important NAFTA, the United States greatly expands its production possibilities curve, giving it an opportunity to push to new levels of production and generally higher living standards for those within our nation. Going to war with any of the above nations would have immense repercussions at home. Consumer is king, as the adage goes, and when the king has to pay an extra $10 for his bananas, he goes apeshit.

6. What in the world else do you guys mention?

7. Seperation of Church/State? What the heck is that? I can't find a damn thing on that in the Constitution. Ohhh, someone means freedom of religion, where the government won't make an established religion. Ohhhh, now I remember... The "Seperation of Church and State" phrase was just a popular made up phrase that oversimplifies the constitution to the advantage of those who want to ignore it when they feel like it... which reminds me:

8. Guns. Don't get me wrong, I love people shooting stuff as much as the next innocent bystander. I'm going to ignore both sides of the argument ("oh when people have guns that scares the bad guys" or "more guns means more bad guys can get them") and instead skip to the constitutional part. "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." So what the heck does that mean? I mean, if they wanted normal people to have guns, why did they even bother mentioning a militia? Oh.. that's right. Back when they wrote this, the militias were made up of normal guys. Nowadays, the national guard and state troopers are the militia... So what you're saying is that the second amendment to the constitution actually has nothing to do with the rights of private citizens not participating in the militia to bear arms? Oh.

9. What else was brought up?

10. Abortion is too hard to deliberate on. Everyone has an opinion, and it is way to hard to change minds.

11. America, the superpower:
I love America. Here is the problem though; no one is a superpower forever. In fact, I can see a rising difficulty on the horizon, and many analysts agree with me: China. Yep that is right. As it turns out, China's immense population will actually pay off a few years down the line (like 50-100). The growth rate of China has grown by an immense amount, due to the recent (and slight) liberalization of China's normally reclusive and communistic economy. If Political liberalization were to occur with this economic liberalization, then China's power would grow exponentially. However, it is just steadily plodding along. But China will get there! If I were G.W.B., I would do some thinking about China.

11. Ugh, I'll talk about more later. If you want to disagree with anything I've said, feel free. But also, I must warn you that I will most definitely respond with a swift stroke of American justice and truth, and uh liberty too!

I was giving a very generous number when it came to how many years it would take for China. It could take much less, but their government is still bungling a few things with their attempts to remain in power

Democracy haha
How really can george bush believe in democracy when the UN voted no to war in iraq (the right choice) so Mr George Warcrimes Bush went and did it anyway sounds a bit right wing to me

to be frank, the governments of some countries have their heads so far up their asses that it is difficult for them to actually DO much. Germany is so screwed up right now, and France is undergoing a neo-nationalism freaky conversion "we are the best nation in Europe" crazy screw-america change in their foreign policy (though you could argue it has been that way for a while). What happened to you, Europe? You used to be so cool.

To the starter of this thread, a little advice.... never start your post with the phrase "I am an avid bush supporter."

No matter how much you support him, that phrase alone will spark a lot of hate towards you, whether it's done purposely or sub-consciously.

Please, go set foot into Afghanistan, or Iraq, or any of those third-world countries, even for a day - then perhaps you will get an idea about what a massive terrorist Bush really is. You don't know how they live. You don't know all the pain and suffering they go through. You only hear what CNN wants you to hear. Bush had no right sending troops into Iraq. He had no right sending troops into Afghanistan. If you lived the lives of all those innocent people who had their families torn apart by Bush, then maybe, just maybe, you'd feel differently. Frankly, Bush rode off his father's position. He threw the US into a wind whirl of hatred. Not nearly as many people hated Americans when Clinton was president. At least those who live in Iraq, Afghanistan, anywhere... they know exactly what's going on. Your beloved president keeps you in the dark about everything. He keeps you in fear of everything, when most of you don't even know what it's like to have your house bombed, to have your parents die right in front of you, to have your life torn apart - and all of this being out of your control and not against any American Law.

At least that other idiot candidate, Kerry, discussed the issues at hand instead of blinding people with worthless healthcare/gay marriage/etc... promises. Why would you focus your attention on Gay Marriages when thousands of people are being killed by your lovely troops every week? It's nothing against gays, but honestly, is the life of those gays on the line? Are they being hung by one thread of hope, then eventually it being cut by Bush's hatred and your ignorance?

To Killer of Time: Rubbish. Yes, it's all just rubbish, isn't it? Right, I'm sure you understand everything the Iraqis are going through. See? that's another problem with Americans. They walk around, claiming they know it all and no one can outspeak and outrank them. Someone says one thing, and they go "oh, yes, I've done it all. I know it all."

Everything you just said right there, it's all very predictable. I've heard it all millions of times before. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it? You don't know half of what goes on, so please, quiet about how wonderfully blessed you are. Yes, blessed.. you're very blessed that you THINK you know all, and you THINK you have it all, and you THINK you have everything figured out. You're very blessed, actually, that your sad little life doesn't even match the horror the Iraqis and the Afghanis have seen and live through every single day.

All of you are the same. Most Americans I've spoken to, they ride on this arrogant frame of mind.... they treat everyone and everything like crap, and they don't care for the consequences, nor do they pay any attention to the other side of things. The world hates you for a reason. It's not good to be hated. And despite what most Americans may think, it's got nothing to do with fear or jealousy.

And yes, keep crying about health care. That's all you know about. Health care. Gay Marriages. Social Security. Bush is the best. Bush knows it all.. Well actually, he's very smart for wrapping all of you around his little redneck finger. I do congratulate him on that. He seems to have you blinded. The herd of sheep stands together, don't they? But really, go baah your ignorance somewhere else.

editted to add: Of course, this doesn't apply to ALL americans (because I have come across some very intelligent, very aware ones), just those strong bush supporters who don't know anything more than what the news tells them, or what their president tells them to believe. This consists of just a little more than half the population.

I feel sorry for Americans. I really do. I'd rather live in constant fear and know what's going on, than live inside some protective shell and be completely ignorant to the world around me.

@ Scarlette: Two points I would take up with you. Firstly with regard to Iraqi and Afgani families, I would suggest you ask the families of those butchered and executed in the National Soccer Stadium in Afganistan, under the Taliban, what they think of the previous administration! Also the thousands of family members of those who were executed under the regieme of Saddam!

You are in danger of believing your own propaganda. Not all the world is against George Bush and his foreign policy. Do not speak on behalf of those who do not wish to be spoken for!

-Leaves-

have we all just about got our opinions out on George Bush? It doesn't seem like this is getting anywhere besides pissing some people off.

for me..i luv george bush..n im totally for him! ppl hate him..n diss him..but y? all he tries to do is help me and you out! he loves our country so much and would probably do anything for it! and to tell you the truth i am so glad Cari didnt win er however you spell it..but i wouldnt feel as safe if bush didnt win! and i am so happy that he did! n i have a lot of faith n him n he will do as great a job as he has been doing!

the world needs bush end of story...

yea the world especially america needs bush!

BUSH CAN ROT IN HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE KILLED MY BROTHER BY SENDING HIM OFF TO WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!MARILYN MANSON SHOULD BE PRESIDENT

oh my goodness! bush didnt kill anybody! maybe your brother made a mistake..im not blaming it on your brother..but why does it seem that evertime something bad happens they blame it on god or bush! JEESE why is their always someone to blame! bush didnt do it! it wasnt meant to happen! thats just one of the risks your brother took when he decided to be in the army er whatever!!

he was my best friend and it was THAT BASTARDS FALT HES DEAD!!! THERE DIDN"T HAVE TO BE A FUCKING WAR!!!!!!!! SO MUCH BLOOD DID NOT HAVE TO BE SPILT FOR PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks to yours truly huh?

se non ci è prova allora ci sono nessuno da adorare

what name?

hmmmm whatever floats your boat i guess.....idk good question

La la la Australia rules! Yeh well we kick americas arse. Or at least kiss it. Damn politics. Urgh.

OK I haven't read this thread cos it's boring but I have to agree with one thing Killer Of Time said. 'He wouldnt have sent our troops there for no reason' True. Unfortunately the reasons were less than admirable. And don't forget, ignorant patriotic Americans, how censored your media is. You aren't exactly getting the full picture. Even in Australia we get a lot more of the 'truth' than you do. I have strong ties to America and quite a good understanding of world politics.

im australian but i swear that dickhead is doing more bad then good

Yay we must revolt

you people have never heard of the chaos theory...i think bret would know cuz he knows all...so if you ever need a filler on the choas theory ask him...

UK Conservative view:

The UN war resolution should have been made, no question. But it was right to go in under the intelligence presented at the time.

Once in Iraq anyone who fights there has my full backing and support. I even rang up my old battery and asked if I was needed. I was put on a reserve list (since taken off).

Bush is better for the US than Kerry, probably better than Gore too. Bush is most definitely better for the world than Kerry, probably better than Gore, too.

View for Emmmerz from a soldier:

I am a soldier, I signed up knowing full well that I could and would be called into the line of fire. That is what soldiers do, we fight and we die.

Your brother knew the risks of service, they are clearly laid out before you join. War is not a game.
Instead of blaming people for the way he died, walk tall and be proud of the way he served. He gave his life for his family and the people he served with (soldiers rarely give their lives for anything else). That was his choice, Bush did not force him or anyone else sign the line.

Day: Communism is near perfect in theory, you can't fault the principle. Then along comes a little thing called man and they get in the way. *grins*

That's why Capitalism is the best way for man to live, it suits our drives very well indeed.

One thing I did see way up near the top is that Killer of Time said perhaps the US should cease trade and close it's borders to the world (not a literal quote, just basic idea). Which is also great in theory except that you lose superpower status as soon as you do because the economy will collapse in about a month.

and thank you bret for explaining...communism does rule...

If Bush really cared about the American people he would be improving the despicable health care system and other things that are REALLY in need of attention. And are the Iraqi's better off from the war? Are the Americans?
The Iraqi's went from well, a bad system where minorities were targeted, threatened, abused and killed under the Taliban to a war zone where hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians were killed, chaos erupted, and what do you know they are still being threatened, abused and killed (did someone say Abu Ghraib?). Plus the Iraqi people are losing all that they have. Oil.
The Americans. How many Americans have died as a result of this meaningless war? How much money has been spent, how much debt is owing? But more importantly, how many billions of dollars could have been spent where it is needed? Say in healthcare? How many Americans are suffering and dying because they cannot afford health care. How many Americans are working two or three jobs because their benefits were instead used to buy helicopters and ships and guns and instruments of war. I don't know whether Kerry would make a good president, but he sure didn't do this to the American people.

"and thank you bret for explaining...communism does rule..."

Ummm yeah... maybe you should read the whole thing.

Good points on Capitalism.

Hitler got into power by manipulating social and economic fears that were prevalent from World War One. That was our fault for not doing a better job with the treaty of Versailles.

'Cog.

Download, rent or buy "Buried in the Sand - The Deception of America" and see if your opinion changes. Gruesome isnt a strong enough word to describe the video, but it shows what has been stopped. Compared to Abu Ghraib... well, happily I'd live in US run Abu Graib compared to its previous owners.

Um I don't know where to get it from.

It bothers me that you would believe the contents of a video.

well, it's stock footage of torture beatings, beheadings, mutilations etc.

the light end is news readers having their feet beaten with sticks for grammatical errors on a broadcast..

the heavy end is tongues cut out, hands removed and so on.

I'm an ex-soldier with a near iron stomach, and it left me feeling sick.

You can believe it or not.. brush it under the carpet and what not and blame Bush all the same. Doesn't chenge the fact it happened.

**ADDITIONAL**

it isn't some propoganda machine like Farenheit 9/11 or any other Michael Moore crap, it's a non profit film. every penny, euro and dollar made is going back into Iraq.

Well that little advertisement of it really makes me want to rush out and buy it now.

'Hey kids, you too can go buy yourselves a movie of real life people being tortured and watch it repetitively until you are desensitised to violence at which time you will enlist in the army, go off to some overseas country and you too will probably end up abusing prisoners,’ and what do you know, Abu Ghraib all over again.

Yes the money might be going back to Iraq but it doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. Torture is torture, and you can't excuse it because it was by the Americans.

Also, I'm curious. What were your motivations for becoming a soldier?

"Well that little advertisement of it really makes me want to rush out and buy it now."

Which is why it should be seen. The truth really does hurt sometimes.

"Torture is torture, and you can't excuse it because it was by the Americans."

Very true, I'm comparing one US prison's exploits to the nation of Dictatorship Iraq.

"Also, I'm curious. What were your motivations for becoming a soldier?"

Mainly self improving reasons, but also to serve and give back to my country. I'd still be there now if I wasn't ill.

Bert

Because dropping bombs on the Iraqi's is really helping them overcome their problems...

exactly!

Don't like it then leave

Public approval is what makes the world turn my friend.

'Cog. Watch and learn, take in all sides before making judgement.

Dismissing something out of hand is a very blinkered thing and I know we're all better than that... right?

Bret
I don't get what you are saying. What exactly am I judging or dismissing? I've merely put forward my point of view. All that seems to have been established is that torture is bad, and that was plain obvious.
Anyways I'm bored, there is only so much politics that can be taken in one day. So goodnight, you keep your views and I'll keep mine, and so long as we have views and know what they are, all is well.

Fair enough.

My point is I'm offering evidence and it's being flat out ignored, nothing more.

Hope you sleep well.

Bert

I think his little nuances make him cute as a button.

And that's what we need in the world's most powerful leader, right?

[Edited out for using the foul language]