Religion is the opium of the people?

This is the full quote by Marx, which I think explain alot more about what he meant.

"Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions."

^^
If I had, I probably would not have had such a successful discussion :p. It is not needed to have the full quote, because I was not really trying to have a discussion about Marx (or his views!), his quote is just a means to a goal. I wanted to know how other people see this, the need to feel secure by believing there is something bigger than ourselves and it was interesting to see how different we all approach this matter.

Ha. God bless religion.

...actually, would God bless religion?

Religion is too broad, dense, narrow & empty for that question to be answered. It can't be bottled up into good or bad. Not even bad or good :)

You have to remember that religion has nothing to do with God/ Creator/ whatever you want to call the source of all energy. We, the people as a whole have created this, and I have a sneaking suspicion we did it out of fear.

I don't think this needs praising, just like we don't need to praise the universe..it is there, regardless of what we do.

People would do wisely to change their ways, instead of doing this with their mouths and the other with their minds. I have often noticed people who claim to be deeply religious are the most sanctimonious of all..we, in Europe, are in the midst of opening a can of worms marked"the conduct of priests and other clergy men in the past decades"...I can assure you, their deeds were far from holy...in fact it is so enfuriating, I would like to suggest we take away their manhood>.<

"I am sorry, in Dutch "ratio"is a synonym for human intelligence, I think in English that may not be the case, reading your words. "

"Ha ha, I had to laugh a little when I read this post above. People are always so eager to label. I don't hold much value to this division between "good" and "bad"...we are all students here and our capacity to forgive both ourselves and others for mistakes ( which are essential for growth in any form by the way!!) is what reveals both our wisdom and love for our fellow men and will ultimately determine our capacity to grow to our full potential."

It is so hard for me to imagine a rational being destroying innocence, and it is always hard to accept when a person that at one time or another was praised as a hero does it

Last week this happened within fifty miles of where I live
MANCHESTER, Tenn. (CBS/AP) Matthew Perkins, a soldier who served in Afghanistan and Iraq, is accused of killing his girlfriend and her two young children, stuffing their corpses into plastic garbage bags and hiding them in a closet for days.

A neighbor says he noticed an unusual stillness at the house normally busy with the toddlers and their friendly mother. When police in this small town investigated a missing person's report Wednesday night, they said they found a "very gruesome" crime scene that rattled even veteran investigators.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20017538-504083.html?utm_sourc...

Could you explain in more detail about placing values on good and bad behavior?

I expect all priest to be holy and all men to be rational
Someone above mentioned the power of mindsets, do you believe everyone has a conscience?

I expect all priest to be holy and all men to be rational

^^
We are gathering more and more evidence about certain priests and other people in powerful positions in both our country and other European countries that indicate they sexually abused young children, boys mostly...it is a cesspool and we have just begun to map the whole matter..the more it gets known, the more other victims dare to speak up.

Only a sane mind can be expected to be rational, Michael....there are many insane creatures among us..the story about the soldier is one of a human brain losing sanity due to the atrocities of war...this is fairly common ( not that it often leads to such dramatic happenings as the one you described), but the sad truth is that the boys who are sent off to war are not really being treated for the emotional damage that was inflicted upon them when war ends. There is not enough guidance and this leads to extreme behavior, suicide, and in general the inability to lead a normal life on all levels for some.

I believe some people, who are mentally ill do not realize what they do and do not recognize what their conscience tells them..or maybe it is completely silent..who knows?

Good and bad..yes, what I meant to say that in people who are considered to be "normal", there are acts that are condemned by others, who in turn make the same mistakes...I am talking about things like stealing, lying, adultery..things that we know in our heart to be wrong. I feel we should learn from our mistakes and move on and not waste so much time on regret, and sanctimoniously pointing the finger at others, while we are all guilty of many, many "sinful"deeds ourselves. Nothing makes my toes curl as bad, as those holier than thou that condemn their fellow men and then turn out to have done all those things themselves one day!!! I clearly remember a documentary about an American reverend, called Paul Haggard, who had millions of followers and one day was caught with his pants down, committing adultery with another man, no less!! He lost all and is now selling insurances door to door, moving from one temporary home to another with his family!

I"n a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand
At the mongrel dogs who teach
Fearing not that I'd become my enemy
In the instant that I preach
My pathway led by confusion boats
Mutiny from stern to bow
Ah, but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now"
Bob Dylan

There are a lot of sanctimonious people who give religion a bad name. I am sure they can be found in all denominations but the common denominator should be faith, hope, and love. Any religious who aims at aything else is of course is doomed to fail. My concern is, if we generalize religion, politics, and education at their lowest we might conclude that society would be better off uncivilized.

Society will never have perfect justice. I can't see the point in developing a standard punishment for those who may not have a natural disernment of good and evil. yet we must restrain some menally ill and leave them as much dignity as possible.

I am sure they can be found in all denominations but the common denominator should be faith, hope, and love

^^
Yes, they should be. But many tend to believe that qualities like hate, violence, anger, (self) destruction, jealousy etc. are always present in people other then themselves. This is a very dangerous assumption, because it is simply not true. When provoked, all people are able to perform/ show actions and characteristics that we normally would refrain from..it is the circumstances that causes them to act this way and if you have trouble understanding this, just think about one day coming home and seeing your wife being raped by a stranger..I bet you would try to kill that sob, no matter the consequences.

Standards should matter, yes, but also (self) forgiveness should be practiced. It allows for people to grow and prevents us from taking ourselves out of the game indefinately, while in essence we are able to make a meaningful contribution to whatever it was we were excluded from due to our misbehaving.

I know I am capable of all kinds of doubt, despair and hate. I wonder if hate is unnatural, natural, or supernatural. The most difficlult thing about being Christian is learning to love my neighbor as myself .Loving the sinner and hating the sin in larger and larger neighborhoods. Preserving manhood as sacred as brotherhood, sisterhood and even motherhood without being labeled santimonious. .....Good Orderly Direction
Infinite mercy with divine justice

Why should hate be unnatural? It is just an emotion and only has power when we try to suppress it. Why should we all be flawless? I think being a real, complete human being means allowing yourself to have all characteristics that make us human and also allow ourselves to make mistakes and not beat ourselves up about them, but just apologize( if possible!), learn from it and move on..so much to gain from daring to be human!

"Just suppose for one second he was right, and there is nothing above us, no higher being, force, whatever you want to call it, what would make our life worth living, if it wasn't for Him?"

he is the subject of your sentence and Him is the object. To be honest, I have been taught since I could remember that I was created in the image and likeness of my creator. Today love is just another four letter word that is often used as a fulfilment of our natural desires. It was said that in the Year of our Lord 33 the priest of that day crucified innocence in the name of religion. The son of man as He called Himself, said forgive them for they know not what they do. Why should hate be unnatural? To err is human to forgive divine

Where do rights come from and who gave them to us?

I can honestly say that I was married to the woman in my profile photo. Since she changes her appearance constantly I feel comfortable in being frank about why we never got close enough to stay together, is that we became more focused on what we thought made us feel good than what made us good.

Yes, Him...I believe with all that I am that a force created all that is. But I don't believe in the man-with-the-beard story. I believe that the "He"I refer to is the source of all energy.

I think we, the people as a whole made those rights, based on the effect actions have had in the past. I don't think people in past centuries or millenia, even, have ever been as ignorant as we believe them to have been and maybe it may even be so that we are sliding down the hill now, instead of climbing it;)

I am sorry for your loss, Michael..

Ingrid, I'd be interested in hearing about what experiences have brought you to the point where you believe there is some higher power effecting your life?

Because really, when it comes down to the heart of any discussion about religion...it's the feeling of it being true that controls how we feel about the facts of it being true or not.

I have no personal experiences of some higher power, and so the information supporting God, or another deity aren't enough for me.

What turned you on to it?

Kevin,

To a large degree each individual lives in her or his personal reality, created by events that have taken place in the course of their personal path of life. We come across people and experience situations that have the ability to change our personal perception of that reality and make us aware of what we believe to be true beyond a shadow of a doubt may not be true at all..learning moments.

To me, personally, this happened when I was four. I had a near- death experience when I almost drowned in the pond in front of my house. This caused me to be completely fearless of death and I think made me a better person than I would have been otherwise and it convinced me there is something beyond this life.

Wow, near death eh. That is powerful stuff. I have had quite a few odd experiences, which I suppose would fall under the category of Outer Body Experiences..very odd stuff, not easily explainable. When they first started happening, I took them to be proof of life after death and all manner of spiritual things...but a fair bit of reading and research showed me that there are many non fantastical reasons for such experiences.

Would it be too personal of me to ask what you experienced during this NDE? I'd happily have a PM if you'd like to share,but not publically.

my girlfriend is a devout catholic, and her main reason for being so boils down to personal experiences she had on a Christian retreat where she said she "just felt the presence of God, whilst out walking on her own along a beach". She can't really descibe it any better, such things don't translate into words very well, something I know from the OBE's I used to have.

I will pm you the story soon Kevin, I promise:)

I know what your girlfriends means with not being able to find the words.