Discussions

My thread was not about one particular account. I am seeing threads get locked for no reason.. its obvious not everyone knew self harm poems were ineligible. Why can't things be up for discussion anymore?

As we discussed in PM, I may have jumped quickly to lock the previous thread in concern that it was directed at an individual. The topic of cutting & other forms of self abuse have their own forum. There are two places in the rules pertaining to this matter.

Upon Registration:
"Submission terms and guidelines
"Forum Rules and Guidelines
"- All posts pertaining to self harm and cutting are to be placed within its own sticky thread atop the depression/sadness forum."

and in the "Non-poetry talk" group, under the "Sadness and depression" forum is the sticky thread "All Cutting/Self Harm Issues - This Thread Only #19" which begins with the injunction: "Please keep all cutting/self harm issues to this thread. When it reaches 100 posts, a new thread will be started by a mod."

There are no rules pertaining to submission of self-abuse poems in any contest. The contest forum has it's own rule post which states "'Poems & Quotes' reserves the right to not display or post any submissions we deem inappropriate or unacceptable."

There may be an understanding as to what ARE inappropriate submissions, but it is not spelled out. There are certain explicitly excluded types, namely spamming, bumping and advertising, as well as harassment, offensive racial remarks vulgar, nasty sexual content and words which are considered opprobrious (the only example given is the use of 'retarded' to mean 'developmentally challenged').

Thus, the discussion topic is: what is considered inappropriate or unacceptable for submission to the Weekly Contest?

I wasn't sure that it was a rule. Lots of the old rules have been lost and/or removed in the past couple of years, so sometimes I'm not sure if I'm remembering an old rule or a current one.

I guess, personally, Ii wouldn't have a problem with seeing a self-harm poem be up on the front page, providing the poem had literary merit. That said, I have to say I can't think of any self-harm poem I've read on here that I would have felt was worthy to be in the top 3... I would bet that even if they were nominated, they would not win unless they were truly outstanding (in which case it might not be bad publicity?) The only poems I would see with really being an issue to win would be explicit poems, because any under 18's would not officially be able to view them. Plus I think it's technically impossible.

I would have more of a problem with poems immersed in the need for abuse than I would for poems dealing with the struggle to cease the abuse.

Literary merit would have to be stupendous for me to consider appropriate any poem which condones self-abuse or abuse of others in any form. In fact, I cannot imagine the poem that glorifies cutting that I would find acceptable.

The question arises: if a poem has been written by one person and nominated by another, which clearly is deemed inappropriate, what is the proper response by the mods? Certainly we should counsel with the person nominating the poem and warn the judges voting on the contest.

Should we go further? If so, what?

I don't see any reason to why explicit poems should not win, aren't they poems?

For one thing, I think they physically cannot be nominated. It's a coding thing. Second, members who are under 18 are not supposed to have access to explicit poems, so that sure cuts down on potential readership for new and old members.

Yes, but come on, there are writers who are 12 and 13 who write explicit poems more than a 20 year old writer. In my opinion, if there is no slang in a poem even if explicit, it should win,because it's still someones feelings and thoughts.

Yeah, pretty sure it's a coding thing, in which case there's no point discussing it until Janis comes back. Unfortunate, but true.

If it's not a coding thing, someone correct me.

All you have to do is go to a newly posted explicit poem and see if 'vote' is available..that part of the section (no joke) is blocked by my work computer so I can't see lol.

I surrender.

EDITED: Britt, are you serious? So if I see the 'vote' thingy beneath the poem, so it is qualified to win? Woohoo.

Yep, it's been confirmed, you cannot nominate poems in the Explicit section.

That's not what I meant, however.

I believe you can nominate Sadness/Depression poems, judges can even vote on them - but they can't make the front page. The site prevents it.

That being so, we should be sure to inform judges not to waste their votes on S/D poems.

I can't imagine the whole Sadness section would be restricted from winning...? At least, I don't remember any time where a poem got the most judges points and didn't win. But I guess I can't think of any winners that are from that section, either.

Research time! Abby, form a hypothesis, stat!

OMG sad section cannot win! what the hell.

Jane, correct and incorrect. The way the site is coded (per Janis) NO Explicit poem can make the front page. A poem in the Sadness/Depression section CAN make the front page, the site does not prevent it.

That's why I tend to post sad poems in the miscellaneous section.

Research time. Let's see if we can find someone who's won the weekly with a S/D poem.

EDIT: Joe, you sure?

100% sure Jane...need evidence? Go here ( http://www.poems-and-quotes.com/contests.html ) and scroll down about half way.

EDIT: The only thing I do recall (from some thread along time ago in the mod forum) Janis did state that he does not want any poems pertaining to self harm, rape, drugs, etc. on the main page.

Joe, you're right, there are poems from the S/D section that have won the weekly.

Were judges in the past asked not to vote on them? I know I'm not pulling this out of nowhere.

From what I understand based on that thread I mentioned I remembered, judges are allowed to vote on them as long as they don't pertain to self harm, rape, drugs, explicitness, etc.

So...basically all the categories (lost relationships, grieving, loss, about death, about depression, other sad poems) in the S/D section are allowed to win and are allowed to be voted on as long as they are in good taste and do not pertain to what I mentioned above (self harm, etc.).

Alright Joe, good enough for me. I guess I remembered incorrectly.

I would've showed you the exact thread that Janis had mentioned that in, but I don't have access to the mod forum anymore, so if you want to do more research, that will have to be on your end, unless of course you want to reinstate me as a mod :)

Yeah, I just saw those poems as well. I hadn't remembered "no sadness/self-harm" as being a rule. If it was a rule, it appears that it was a casual, "spoken Janis" rule, rather than something set in stone. We'll probably want to have a meeting in the mod room to clarify these rules exactly, so that people know what is and isn't available to vote on.

^^
Awkward..
(Joe's post, not Sibs)

Jane, it was a Janis rule a long time ago about specific poems being disqualified (like self harm). It was something I always mentioned to the judges when the new one were updated/swapped out.

I can think straight away of a Sad/Depression poem winning: it was called 'Solstice' and it was by Sibyllene and it was exceptional.

I don't feel there's need to enforce any rules on the poetry deemed fit for winning the front page. The judges should have enough sense to dissociate gratuitous vulgarity and violence from something with poetic integrity. If they don't, they shouldn't be judges as they lack judgment. The process works.

That's true ^ That's kind of what we count on judges to do anyway, right?

My concern was leaning more towards people wasting their nominations.. lol.