Delicious.. but! (II)

1) A LONELY SOUL:

RE: that eating meat was permitted in your faith under adversity only.....

- Definitely wrong. I can now copy and paste the words of God in Quran, but they cannot be translated literally into English with my modest translation skills because of the linguistic glory of the Quran.

RE: Lab grown meat.....

- I'll never eat that, of course. And I respect others who on contrary desire to eat something grown in labs.

........Also, Muhammad, the Prophet, in several quotes of his, he mentioned that the cow's offspring meat is very very healthy, but in moderate amounts after well-cooking.

I'm noting that eating and slaying animals in our religion is well regulated. With respect to slaying, it shouldn't be done mechanically. A butcher holds his incisive knife without letting the animal see it. And he quickly says a line: 'Sobhan Man Ahalla Lana Hatha' (this sentence refers to glorifying God for letting us eat meat). And then he cuts it in a way that the animal doesn't feel that it was slayed (ie, slaying in a quick strict manner without letting the knife go back and forth).

-----------------
SILVERSHOES:

RE: "Abed, what do you think makes an animal the most important? Intelligence?
We are the most destructive animal on the planet. We are the animal who lives least in harmony with nature. Our intelligence makes us great, but it also makes us cruel. And is it not stupid to destroy the earth that nurtures us?"

I can see that you are ungrateful. Go trumpet then... or chew on garbage like pigs. Isn't it better? (Don't take it personal.)

And yes, dear. Intelligence is what makes us special. We were born to be significant. But we don not know how to be, that's why we're not living in harmony; that is another topic... another discussion.

RE: "the Quran" ... was written by a man. Case and point.

- You are so disrespectful. With what you said, you are belittling a very big religion. I'm not entering now into a debate on proving that the sacred Quran wasn't written by a man. But you should know that you were rude... totally rude, and I cannot accept that, honestly. Who are you to turn a God religion, into an earthly one?

RE: ... It's being created in a lab so humans can continue eating meat.

- You are going round and round the same topic, that if we want lab meat, then originally we need real meat.

RE: We can stop mass breeding them, tormenting them, and destroying the environment and atmosphere with their excess.

- Well, I know one thing. The meat I eat is 'Halal'. And in Islamic religion, that means one thing: slaying animals under proper conditions which ensure no torment to the animal. I don't know your case (how you slay) Jane.. or others'. You should solve that.

RE: Don't listen to Pamela Anderson then. Listen to the millions of others who follow the same path.

- The path is crooked, to me.

--------------------------------------

A LONELY SOUL:

RE: Unfortunately, it is very true that many Moslem's believe that they are not true Moslem's until they slaughter an animal.

- I'm not sure where you're going. We are true Moslems only when we slay animals? OMG.. that is sure disrespectful, too. I can't believe my eyes... you are saying this?

RE: the origin of ADHA EID.

- Yes. God ordered Abraham to kill his son because he was testing him. Would he give up his son to God? And after Abraham went on slaying his son, God ordered the knife not to. God was sure then that Abraham is a real prophet, that says whatever God orders him. And an animal then was sent from the skies as a sacrifice instead of Abraham's son.

RE: This tradition to celebrate this festival with an animal sacrifice is borne out of this incident. However, I do not believe that the Qur'an says anywhere that the common Muslim should also sacrifice an animal at Eid, to show his dedication to God.

- Moslims are supposed to follow two written things: the Quran and the Prophet's regulations (Note that the Prophet was the only one who had a direct contact with God through visions and angels). The idea of sacrificing an animal at Eid to show dedication to God is not written in the Quran. It is mentioned in the Prophet's quotes.

RE: This unfortunate tradition of animal at Eid, in my opinion, is what puts their belief's in direct conflict with Hinduism, Jainism, and Buddhism, and animal lovers.

- This is your opinion. I wholeheartedly respect that though those earthly made religions are only...written by humans. (Knowing that the three God made religions are consecutively: Judaism, Christianity, Islam).

RE: But are we not all children of the same God? If you were a guest in my house, would you not show respect to the host by not eating something which I consider as sacred. Likewise, if I visited your house, will I not show tolerance to your traditions on Eid, if I had to sit by your side, as a sign of friendship.

- Of course we are. Our prophet had a Jewish neighbor that he respected all life. And when he needed a shelter, he traveled to Ethiopia and slept at Christian homes and ate what they had to offer. We are loving and respectful.

Edit: I removed one line.

Wow

I can see your true colours shinning through...

And it's not only a song....man there is so much I could say in response to the above... Yet I will leave it for the moment..

Not that I give two flying effs on where this conversation is headed, but how the hell did a discussion that revolved around food turn to a muslim Criticizing conversation?

Lonely soul
RE: Unfortunately, it is very true that many Moslem's believe that they are not true Moslem's until they slaughter an animal.

Man This is just plain wrong, I'm not sure who told you this or where you've gathered your information, I'd suggest you check it again though, because it is 100% false.
RE: "the Quran" ... was written by a man. Case and point
^^^^^^^^^^

I'm not sure who said that but I've read it from Abed's post, but if that is what you truly think then It's all good,it's your opinion and quite honestly, your opinion counts for absolutely nothing.
But bare in Mind that If i want to dig deep into each and everyone's religions in here, I'm going to enjoy my time finding Contradictions and pointing them to the public, Whether Christian, Jew or Muslim.

It's a food debate peeps, Keep it there, and btw just for your information, A Muslim's Eating habits is almost exactly Identical to a Jew's eating habits, So before you feel like having something intelligent to say, Check your sources, Because pointing fingers and throwing blame is something alot of people enjoy i guess.

As Rab said, let's keep this about food, not about whether someone's religion is real or not. I can see how the facts of religion play into a person's diet, but does it really need to be taken that far?

Haha.. moderated.
Sibyllene, I didn't intend to turn this into preaching, until someone belittled my religion.
-
nicko , you should lessen your poetic speeches and just get straight to the point.

Lol Abed I am glad your Internet is working again because if you had to write that on your phone I would have felt sorry for you lol

All this from a website about Maccas lol

Abed: No one disrespected you or your religion or beliefs. Please read my post carefully, and in light of what was being justified, a vegetarian way of life.

If I misunderstood what was suggested in Quar'an, I will stand corrected. After all, I am not the one who has read it. But, I will quote something that I read and impressed me and its source:

The Holy Prophet has placed the killing of animals without a justifiable reason as one of the major sins
{Source http://www.islamawareness.net/Animals/animals3.html} :

1)Avoid ye the seven obnoxious things {deadly sins}: polytheism; magic; the killing breathing beings! Which God has forbidden except for rightful reason. (Narrated by Abu Huraira. Sahih Mulim - Kitab-ul-Imam [Ref. No. 46]; Chapt. XXXIX, Vol.I; p. 52. Bukhari, 4:23. Also Awn [Ref. No. 32]; Hadith No. 2857)
2) The baneful {sinful} things (in Islam) are: polytheism; disobedience to parents; the killing of breathing beings without a valid reason. (id. Narrated by Abdullah Ibn 'Amr)

Please note the word "justifiable", or '"the killing of breathing beings without a valid reason", in my diction is synonymous to "in needless killings". If one advocates that Qua'ran justifies eating meat (outside of adversity) routinely for satisfiying the taste buds or pleasure is "justifiable", then perhaps we are reading the above quote and interpretation from Holy Quaran, very differently. I do not deny that Islam, according to Prophet's words, permits eating meat, and gives instructions to ensure humane slaughter, with as little pain to the victim as possible, in many of the quotes. But, to me from reading quotes #1 & #2 above, it means that this should only be done in adversity (not routinely), . There was therefore no need to attack or belittle my innocent interpretation here, as I did not criticize any religion or was disrespectful to you in any way.

To someone who is an avid animal rights protector (Jane), or someone who is an advocate of a vegetarian simple way of life (like me), we are making our points, not criticizing a holy text or a religion, per se. The basis for my vegetarianism is not my religion, but my belief in justice for innocent animal lives. If I quote 3 of the most ancient religions in this world, as supporting Vegetarianism, I am making my point.

But tolerance is what I grew up with, which is the founding pillar in all religions, regardless of how we interpret their teachings. So my apologies to you if you interpret my observations as being anti-Islam....unfortunate.
I couldn't agree more with another Moslem who said this:

"Islam teaches tolerance, not hatred; universal brotherhood, not enmity; peace, and not violence".
Pervez Musharraf

Re: Jane's comments: They are from a humane point of view, from that of an avid animal lover, frank, honest and very respectable in today's world. I would rather appreciate the overall goodness and compassion she projects towards animals with her thoughts and her deeds (volunteering and donating for animal rights organizations), and not pick on her words (e.g. "the Quran" ... was written by a man. Case and point.)and tease them apart on grounds of religious sacrilege.
I would repeat again:

Are we not children of the same God?
Do we have to be so bitter to each other, to prove that we have more love for God, than our neighbor?
Can we not find a common ground to appreciate each other, perhaps by coming together in poetic pasteurs of PnQ.

^^ Utmost respect for the way chose to represent yourself, Children of the same God Amen, But bear in Mind that Religion has always been and will always be a very controversial topic, No matter what religion you discuss, And people hold on to to it dear because without it, You lose that sense of security that someone is looking over your shoulders, You simply just lose hope,

To explain why such a statement as" The qua ran is written by a man is such an offensive one, Because it contradicts Everything we believe, It's like Me telling someone who happens to be Christian that the bible is forged, Yet whether I believe that or Not, It's not my right to tell it to them because that contradicts every single thing they believe in? Capiche? If you want to know why our holy book is so important to us, I'd be glad to explain.

Much like the ignorant Quote that you hear a lot on the TV about Islam, ( Islam is a religion spread by sword), but guess what,
Our holy book consists of exactly 604 pages,a 114 chapters, 6666 verses and guess what?? IF you add all the Arabic words that mean Sword, There is 16 Arabic words for that btw, You'll find none in the qua ran,

Surrender,Submission, obedience to god's commitments, Sincerity, to be sincere by telling no lies and not showing off, along with peace is the meaning of Islam, In Arabic all these 5 words @ the same time mean 1 word, which is Islam.
and i'm willing to bet all religions in the world revolve around the same thing.

David, I didn't mean that you are personally disrespectful... but the thoughts you have (hopefully now it is: had) were!

Wow, the media can really do miracles in changing conceptions! ------darn it! I don't want to change the topic haha

Abed, it is my explanation for why I do not believe any holy texts are reliable... Because man is unreliable. That small part of my argument looks wholly different when taken out of context, perhaps that was your intention, I don't know. I do know it was never my intention to be disrespectful. I only wished to state my own opinion... On all religions.
And I am not an atheist.

I see the point in discussing religion in regards to this topic of animal rights and their use as food, but we don't need to stray so far. We don't need to get into a religious battle.

I whole heatedly support the Muslim way of slaying animals for food, as you have explained it in detail, so we don't need to disagree :)
We sell halal meat at my restaurant.

Okay.. I blemished your text in a way that suits my intentions. ,,,, really?

check out what you said. I need not to copy the whole text after for you because it's the same.

:S

YOu need not, Giving people the benefit of the doubt pays off sometimes, and that's one of them abed =-)
I guess Religion and animal rights do cross paths, but it shouldn't be a point of dispute, So let it pass amigo :d

Indeed, there is no point
in explaining what any of you
meant or did not say;
nor is there purpose
in pushing noses into
verbal excrement
you may believe you smell.
Give it a rest, now.

Larry how do you make everything look and sound like a poem? lol

90 year of practice.

: O

; )

:8-/

And I quote, ":8-)"

:O lol

He looks way younger than that lol

Seriously :| he does lol

Yeah, I'm just being a smart-aleck. He's actually only 32, though his wisdom far surpasses his years.

Yeah I've noticed by the way he talks lol also his poems

Sibs,
your sarcasm
is only exceeded
by the degree of your
superciliousness.

*<8-}
(party hat)

I kind of got lost when religion was brought so centrally into this topic, but I think these issues regarding animals are interesting. I think Larry said it well, that life is harsh but doesn't need to be cruel. I'm quite an animal lover and hate to see animals treated cruelly, but understand and agree with the humane farming of animals for human consumption, and also think that animals generally are just that: animals. In an ideal world, all animals would eat leaves and roam free but, like with anything, this here is not an ideal world.

I think the fact that we have the ability to feel for animals is great and a part of what makes us human. I often think also if 'animal rights' opinions generally represent an evolution in humanity, as years ago such ideas would not have been widespread, or if sometimes it is a break-away from life/death reality that modern culture has 'protected' many of us from. It's an impossible question to answer conclusively, its open to opinion but I do think it is an interesting question.

Below is one of the first poems I remember reading back in school, written by Irish poet and Nobel Prize winner Seamus Heaney.

***

The Early Purges

I was six when I first saw kittens drown.
Dan Taggart pitched them, 'the scraggy wee shits',
Into a bucket; a frail metal sound,

Soft paws scraping like mad. But their tiny din
Was soon soused. They were slung on the snout
Of the pump and the water pumped in.

'Sure, isn't it better for them now?' Dan said.
Like wet gloves they bobbed and shone till he sluiced
Them out on the dunghill, glossy and dead.

Suddenly frightened, for days I sadly hung
Round the yard, watching the three sogged remains
Turn mealy and crisp as old summer dung

Until I forgot them. But the fear came back
When Dan trapped big rats, snared rabbits, shot crows
Or, with a sickening tug, pulled old hens' necks.

Still, living displaces false sentiments
And now, when shrill pups are prodded to drown
I just shrug, 'Bloody pups'. It makes sense:

'Prevention of cruelty' talk cuts ice in town
Where they consider death unnatural
But on well-run farms pests have to be kept down.

***
I think it is interesting as the speaker comes to terms with death, in a way as the reader does alongside him, and how he embraces some realities of life.

Takes an Irishman to fully appreciate that, Colm, for reasons I will not go into lest a whole new rant takes off.

Death is natural; life should be.

My dad told me about how drowning kittens and puppies to keep their population down used to be a common place "thing." Fortunately now there are free spay/neuter clinics all over the place, even popping up in 3rd world countries.

Anyhow, it's not kittens and puppies that are hard to find homes for in the U.S.
It's cats and dogs.

Interesting fact : It takes 3,000 cows to supply the NFL with enough leather for a year's supply of footballs

Yes but it's not like they grow cows for leather, it's a byproduct
They use just about everything....