What would you change?

Ok, another question for you lovely lot.

If you could change just 1 thing from the past what would it be?

(it can be your own life or in general)

Although I live in England I would love to have been able to succesfully warn of the 9/11 terroist attack in New york. (Maybe set both fire alarms off in the twin towers so they were evacuated or maybe cause the airports to be closed, so the planes could have never taken off)

over to you.

I wouldn't let my parents marry.

Paying for that with your non-existence?

I'm not big on recriminations or regrets.

"Now for you and me it may not be that hard to reach our dreams
But that magic feeling never seems to last
And while the future's there for anyone to change, still you know it's seems
It would be easier sometimes to change the past"
-- Jackson Brownne "Fountain of Sorrow"

I would change nothing, because everything happens for a reason, and is meant to be.

I would have decided to be born elsewhere, into a more loving family.

If I could change one thing it would be that my oldest son's father would still be alive so he could know him.

I agree with wild flower, although the what if thing can be fun (and sometimes very depressing) it is what it is.

I wouldn't change a thing
That's happened in my time
All that s**t is just proof
Of what i have survived

All the good and bad that's ever happened to me, or those i love are just puzzle pieces of the bigger picture. If even one tiny thing was changed ... i wouldn't be the strong, adaptable, forgiving, big hearted person i an today

And i pretty much like me because i think I'm pretty f'n awesome

Not much of a believer in "everything happens for a reason."
We often create our own destiny, our future is intricately tied to our actions. But, sometimes accidents, luck and bad luck and coincidences do play a role, that I will not deny.

A good question, what would have I changed? Perhaps, learnt to recognize early each mistake that I was about to make or made, and prevent them from ever occurring. But, this is an idyllist's notion....we do learn from all the mistakes we make, so we don't repeat them again and again.

I would have went back to 1918, To the 1st few days of Large scale supposedly peaceful Jew Settlerments into Palestine, And I would have warned my ancestors that these people are not so peaceful after all, Invading and occupying our lands since 48

Kill Hitler before WW2

There seems to be a lot of members who would like to re-write history?

What would I change if I could?....I'd remove the word influence from every dictionary in the world.

Absolutely nothing......its my karma

As a student of sci fi, I know that changing anything from the past could have serious repercusions to the present, even a slight change.

That said, I have always fancied the idea of going back in time and educating our early ancestors about the realities of the cosmos, IE the Sun isn't a god. The worship of the Sun is the direct root cause of almost every religion in existence today and the retardation of our species by many hundreds of years.

Giving them language and a very solid set of moral guidelines would be fun as well.

That said, I have always fancied the idea of going back in time and educating our early ancestors about the realities of the cosmos, IE the Sun isn't a god. The worship of the Sun is the direct root cause of almost every religion in existence today and the retardation of our species by many hundreds of years.
^^^^

I think that's what I was meaning when I said I'd remove the word influence from every dictionary if I could but...OMG...you said it so much better than me!

Kevin - that makes me wonder about what our religions could look like if we had been born to a planet with two suns. On that note, I wonder if they've found any viable planets in a dual-star system... I guess I hadn't thought of that.

I know I should say that I wouldn't change anything in my personal past, and I probably wouldn't if I had the power, but that doesn't stop me from wishing that I would have done some things differently. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to just wish that I had been a little bit braver, a little bit smarter.

If we're talking world history, I have no idea. Too many options.

^ Sibs. If we would have been born on this very Earth with two suns. There is a high possibility that Earth might not have been able to sustain liquid water due to extreme temperature differences during the day and night. The atmospheric pressure would be unbearable. And the Goldilocks Zone or the circumstellar habitable zone would have been pushed further to Jupiter or Saturn and beyond. The planets in theory would have different compositions.

But being born on a planet with two suns, does raise questions about religious implications that may have developed along the current timeline.

And about Kevin's point.

Going to the past and educating the ancestors is a good point.

Since science fiction is open to all possibilities. One will most probably be travelling to a parallel universe. Any changes in the history made, will not alter the present reality on the Earth in the current timeline. The temporal vibrations of the universe create multiple paradoxes, thus creating alternate timelines and alternate universes, in fiction.

If in theory one was able to make changes in the past within the same timeline, there shall be some serious repercusions to the present, even a slight change. Very true. Much like the butterfly effect. But the outcomes are worth pondering upon.

One may return to the current timeline then, only to find the Earth barren. The advancement in the technology must have resulted in cataclysmic events. Nuclear wars. Or perhaps Earth might have been depleted of all its resources and humanity must have mastered inter-stellar travel and built life supporting axioms on different suitable planets. Harvesting asteroids for resources. And so on, categorizing us under the type 3 civilization.

Else, Earth might sustain type 1 and 2 civilizations. But humans could have made advancements in biotechnology. Humans may have acquired a longer life span. Humans may have developed ways to transfer their consciousness into self sustaining cybernetic bodies, thus the possibility of cyborgs. Teleportation mechanisms. Etc.

Changing the past holds oblivious outcomes. Humanity could be smarter or extremely maladroit.

But a good perspective on changing things.

Dusts off the Tardis and sends it by xpress post to 4 V's :)

What do 2 suns (or 1000) have to do with affecting religions/faith?

I think it means you begin to choose? Which one to worship..then the division starts???

I could be wrong of course...wouldn't be the first time :)

I.. am not understanding..

choosing who to worship?

I know, myself, that God isnt the sun :P

so if there were 342934 suns, that wouldn't affect anything for me... can u explain further?

Kevin is operating under the theory that all religions had their basis in sun-worship. He would postulate that, for our ancestors, the sun was the first thing that would have revealed itself to them as being a force that was could powerfully affect their lives. As humans became conscious as humans and wondered more about the world around them, the heat and light of the sun would have seemed magical. I think Kevin would say that this eventually evolved into a series of rituals - a sort of perceived communication between humans and the sun - that would have eventually lead to religion. This is, of course, a non-religious interpretation. ; )

The worship of the Sun is the direct root cause of almost every religion in existence today and the retardation of our species by many hundreds of years.

^I would beg to differ with Kevin a little here (just for fun):

The worship of Sun God was, and is symbolic of worship of a celestial body.... the sun was seen as a celestial being and considered the source of life sustenance, which is in line with the truth, i.e a scientific reality...without the sun, there would have been no life on earth, so the ancients were not too unwise. Worship of the Sun was/is seen in Polytheism like Hinduism and Pagan religions (Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Norse, Celtic, etc) , did serve a certain purpose for our ancestors. However, Pagan religions (except Hinduism) were largely abandoned because of transition to monotheistic ideology seen in Christianity, Islam and Judaism...religions which were founded in the same part of the world in about the same time frame, and disputed the value of Polytheism.
I myself am a sort of sun worshipper (part of Yoga exercise called Surya namaskar) who has found mental energy in this exercise, and have not yet been "retarded" by its influence, as of yet. :)

Regardless of who wants to change what, things I will definitely not like to see any changes when Kevin goes back in time to change things around :) are the positive human values of Compassion, Integrity, Forgiveness, Love, Peace, Righteousness and Faith (includes religious belief) on which our entire societal structure survives. I would not mind getting rid of prejudice, hatred, greed, selfishness, war, though.

This is what I like about this site, a simple question can lead to huge debates on science, religion and the Sun.

thanks all who have given an opinion.

I would not mind getting rid of prejudice, hatred, greed, selfishness, war.

^
That would be awesome!!

Hitler's reign of terror, obviously. I really don't see anything that could be more worth changing.

^ If I may correct you... not just Hitler's reign of terror.....* since all genocides are equally devastating *.... so ALL world's terror....

* edited *

Terror is terror I will agree...Pol Pot comes instantly to my mind but....how can you just flick genocide off like it was a little speck of dust?

I'm not flicking any genocide off... etc.....

there are a lot of genocides, I meant, so Hitler's one shouldn't be the only one to be remembered... :)

Can you give me some examples and figures..LP?
----------------
What I would change #2

Well I'm not really sure about this one yet so...I'd like to throw a question in first. Do any countries have carbon tax? If so...how long has it been in place and...is it effective? It's only recently been approved here in Australia and, while I admit to being a bit of a greeny I'm just not sure about this so....would I want to change it...at the moment I'm thinking yes but...unsure? My power bill has shot up this month and...while I can still afford it I'm wondering about all those pensioners who won't be able to...

The worst genocides of the 20th Century

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000
Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) 12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians deliberately killed in WWII plus 3 million Russian POWs left to die)
Leopold II of Belgium (Congo, 1886-1908) 8,000,000
Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) 6,000,000 (the gulags plus the purges plus Ukraine's famine)
Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44) 5,000,000 (civilians in WWII)
Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915-20) 1,200,000 Armenians (1915) + 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks (1916-22) + 500,000 Assyrians (1915-20)
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000
Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94) 1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78) 1,500,000
Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970) 1,000,000
Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982) 900,000
Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994) 800,000
Saddam Hussein (Iran 1980-1990 and Kurdistan 1987-88) 600,000
Tito (Yugoslavia, 1945-1987) 570,000
Sukarno (Communists 1965-66) 500,000
Fumimaro Konoe (Japan, 1937-39) 500,000? (Chinese civilians)
Jonas Savimbi (Angola, 1975-2002) 400,000
Mullah Omar - Taliban (Afghanistan, 1986-2001) 400,000
Idi Amin (Uganda, 1969-1979) 300,000
Yahya Khan (Pakistan, 1970-71) 300,000 (Bangladesh)
Benito Mussolini (Ethiopia, 1936; Libya, 1934-45; Yugoslavia, WWII) 300,000
Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire, 1965-97) ?
Charles Taylor (Liberia, 1989-1996) 220,000
Foday Sankoh (Sierra Leone, 1991-2000) 200,000
Suharto (Aceh, East Timor, New Guinea, 1975-98) 200,000
Ho Chi Min (Vietnam, 1953-56) 200,000
Michel Micombero (Burundi, 1972) 150,000
Slobodan Milosevic (Yugoslavia, 1992-99) 100,000
Hassan Turabi (Sudan, 1989-1999) 100,000
Jean-Bedel Bokassa (Centrafrica, 1966-79) ?
Richard Nixon (Vietnam, 1969-1974) 70,000 (Vietnamese and Cambodian civilians)
Efrain Rios Montt (Guatemala, 1982-83) 70,000
Papa Doc Duvalier (Haiti, 1957-71) 60,000
Rafael Trujillo (Dominican Republic, 1930-61) 50,000
Hissene Habre (Chad, 1982-1990) 40,000
Chiang Kai-shek (Taiwan, 1947) 30,000 (popular uprising)
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 (dissidents executed)
Francisco Franco (Spain) 30,000 (dissidents executed after the civil war)
Fidel Castro (Cuba, 1959-1999) 30,000
Lyndon Johnson (Vietnam, 1963-1968) 30,000
Maximiliano Hernandez Martinez (El Salvador, 1932) 30,000
Hafez Al-Assad (Syria, 1980-2000) 25,000
Khomeini (Iran, 1979-89) 20,000
Robert Mugabe (Zimbabwe, 1982-87, Ndebele minority) 20,000
Bashir Assad (Syria, 2012) 14,000
Rafael Videla (Argentina, 1976-83) 13,000
Guy Mollet (France, 1956-1957) 10,000 (war in Algeria)
Harold McMillans (Britain, 1952-56, Kenya's Mau-Mau rebellion) 10,000
Paul Koroma (Sierra Leone, 1997) 6,000
Osama Bin Laden (worldwide, 1993-2001) 3,500
Augusto Pinochet (Chile, 1973) 3,000
Al Zarqawi (Iraq, 2004-06) 2,000

"http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html"

-- I didn't notice Israel up there... I wonder why... what it did in lebanon (Kana 1 and Kana 2) .... and of course, in Palestine, every day, every hour, every sec..

Impressive list LP..but can I ask out of this lot..

how many listed are genocides in which the goal is to wipe out a people...by that I mean a whole identity/race?
and..how many were politically based massacres?...

It isnt about genocide as much as it is about human experimentation's. But the story of Unit 731 is pretty strong.

I don't know the intentions behind all those genocides. But the Israeli one definitely matches your question :)

Oh, The list never Has Israel in it bro
but here i'll help you

here is a list of every UN resolution broken by the Mother of all evil!

Reaffirmation of a Palestinian State
Security Council Resolution 1397, March 12, 2002
Affirms "a vision of a region where two Israel and Palestine, live side by side within secure and recognized borders.
Resolution 270: condemns Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon.
Resolution 271: condemns Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem.
Resolution 279: demands withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon.
Resolution 280: condemns Israeli's attacks against Lebanon.
Resolution 285: demands immediate Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon.
Resolution 298: deplores Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem.
Resolution 313: demands that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon.
Resolution 316: condemns Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon.
Resolution 317: deplores Israel's refusal to release.
Resolution 332: condemns Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon.
Resolution 337: condemns Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty.
Resolution 347: condemns Israeli attacks on Lebanon.
Resolution 425: calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
Resolution 427: calls on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
Resolution 444: deplores Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces.
Resolution 446: determines that Israeli settlements are a serious obstruction to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
Resolution 450: calls on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon.
Resolution 452: calls on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories.
Resolution 465: deplores Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist its settlements program.
Resolution 467: strongly deplores Israel's military intervention in Lebanon.
Resolution 468: calls on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return.
Resolution 469: strongly deplores Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians.
Resolution 471: expresses deep concern at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Resolution 476: reiterates that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are null and void.
Resolution 478: censures (Israel) in the strongest terms for its claim to Jerusalem in its Basic Law.
Resolution 484: declares it imperative that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors.
Resolution 487: strongly condemns Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility.
Resolution 497: decides that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights
is null and void and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith.
Resolution 498: calls on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon.
Resolution 501: calls on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops.
Resolution 509: demands that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon.
Resolution 515: demands that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in.
Resolution 517: censures Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
Resolution 518: demands that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon.
Resolution 520: condemns Israel's attack into West Beirut.
Resolution 573: condemns Israel vigorously for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.
Resolution 587: takes note of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw.
Resolution 592: strongly deplores the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops.
Resolution 605: strongly deplores Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.
Resolution 607: calls on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Resolution 608: deeply regrets that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians.
Resolution 636: deeply regrets Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
Resolution 641: deplores Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 672: condemns Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram Al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
Resolution 673: deplores Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.
Resolution 681: deplores Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 694: deplores Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
Resolution 726: strongly condemns Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 799: strongly condemns Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return"

I noticed hitlers name come up quite often.

I would have loved to be able to wipe him out early before he began his reign....however

To back up the 'things happen for a reason' and 'affecting the future' arguments;

My Nans first husband died in world war 2. She remarried 10 years after to my grandfather and had 9 children, one of those was my mother who obviously had me.

Therefore no WW2 no me!!
Is this selfish?

I am impressed with Abed's research on genocides. It really freshens up our mind that there have been numerous people in history who have tried to mass murder 'innocents" in their skewed belief, apart from Hitler. The Maoist era is the biggest, and yet they have statues of Mao everywhere in China...I guess they still worship him for what he and his mistaken ideology did.
Genocide is defined as "The deliberate killing of a large group of people, esp. those of a particular ethnic group or nation".
So, perhaps that is why Abed's question
"-- I didn't notice Israel up there... I wonder why... what it did in lebanon (Kana 1 and Kana 2) .... and of course, in Palestine, every day, every hour, every sec.."
would not necessarily fit in this compilation of genocides.

But, as a peace loving citizen of the world, I do not wish to propagate an unresolved political controversy here, I think it is best to leave it to the peace process and the people (UN, Israel, Palestinians, and others) involved with it, and hope for the best. I think it will happen soon, unless something else interferes (like the Iranian President's pledge in 2005 and then repeated provocations thereafter to wipe off Israel off the map OR his assertion that the holocast never occured - only a crazy guy would talk like this... and yet he wants the world to "trust" him for his "peaceful" nuclear program, buried deep under the earth from public view).

I think both Palestinians and Jewish folks have a right to claim pieces of Homeland that rightfully belong to both, but should do so peacefully. They are brothers and sisters in the eyes of the same God, just wearing prismatic lenses to bend the vision in the direction that suits each one's political views. Inciteful comments only lead to more hate, renewed warring and a delay in the peace process. It is people like Ahmadijan and khomeini, and others who are the real culprits delaying the peace process by constantly threatening the world with another genocide or kidnapping Westerners treading in to their territory for gaining political muscle (eg. the 3 American teenagers, now released). So why would the West trust these type of folks? Perhaps they need to sit down at the same peace table with the Israelites and Palestinians and pursue the Peace talks genuinely, instead of derailing them with indirect threats, murders of civilians and infusing more instability in the area. Trusting Ahmadijan would be no different than trusting Kim jung-il, the deceased Korean dictator with his nuclear toys and massive army in peacetime. These folks don't really care for peace, they are "power mongers" working off their skewed ideology of what "Peace" really means.

I find it interesting that Israel is getting singled out here by a few when as a race they've had more atrocities committed against them than any other race in history

I'm not saying these days that they get everything right and that I agree with all of their actions, as much as Lebanon the Palestinians and the other Arab nations are not lily white either

But when throwing accusations around I think you should look in your own back yard before showing your racial prejudice on here...!!!

I get annoyed when this site is used for bias propaganda.....!!!!!!!!

I find it interesting that Israel is getting singled out here by a few when as a race they've had more atrocities committed against them than any other race in history
^
True, but this sympathy has been overused and abused. We now have one set of people benefitting from this and the other set living as refugees in their own land....results of a misguided UN mandate for the creation of Israel, just like the misguided creation of West & East Pakistan split from Hindustan (former undivided India) that led to 3 wars and forever enmity between once brothers who lived together in peace in the same land. The grounds of the split of India were to give Muslims in undivided India a land of their own at the request of Jinnah, leader of the Muslim league, despite Gandhi's protest...but guess what really happened...most Muslims stayed behind in India and live peacefully today (the 2nd largest Muslim population in the World but still only 25% of the country), but most Hindu's had to flee from religious persecution and still face this issue of living in fear in Pakistan.

So I have equal sympathies for the thoughts put out by both Abed and Rabea, who are only expressing their frustration as refugees living in foreign lands away from their native land. But, the way to resolve this issue to get everyone talking PEACE and how to achieve the best possible solution to today's reality in the once Palestinian land, and not support idiots like Ahmedijan who only believe in strong arm tactics, terrorism and threats of genocide to solve a real dilemma, created by the UN in 1948.

And yes these open threads should be allowed to stir up good debate on a variety of topics, but agree should not be used to attack each other or for Propaganda or to stir up anti-Jewish or anti-Muslim sentiments. That would defeat the purpose of a good debate. And I also agree that the statements should not have prejudice or only one sided view, or indeed they will be considered racial/biased.

Israel is not a race bro, It's a country that consists of different religions like any other country in the world, of-course, the massive population are Jew
1st of all, you need to understand that our plight is against a particular sect, The Zionist entity, An entity that is according to basic Jewish teaching, is following another order, because if you read the Torah, You'd see that the Jews are meant to return to Israel when the prophet returns.

and none of these are accusations, these are facts and if you want to take a look your self, check the United nation website, that was my source anyhow
I'd hope for once that you actually read more into the ISREALI/PALESTANIAN situation because it isn't Bais propaganda, I'd imagine your normal source of news in this particular issue is either CNN or BBC, I'd wish for once you check out and read more deep into this crisis, maybe check a couple of other references,
I don't wish to debate this with you because we both know where that heads :PP

Lonely soul, When you talk about Iran, you seem to me like you're misinformed, Misguided.

let me sure with you the side you don't know about Iran, Since i'm sure alot of us here are truly oblivious to how it really is, and the way I decide to talk about Iran, is asking questions and taking the liberty of answering them my self

1. How has Iran's relationship with the West changed after the Islamic Revolution succeeded?

Well first thing you have to realise is what iran was prior to the revolution of '79. The climate was of a tyranny and autocratic rule due to the Shah Pahlavi who was installed into power in a 1953 Iranian coup d'état overthrowing the previously democratically elected government of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh. This was orchestrated by you know who, the CIA and other western intelligence agencies.

The coup saw the forced transition of Shah Pahlavi from a constitutional monarch to an authoritarian one who relied heavily on United States support to hold on to power until his own overthrow in February 1979.

So the climate of hate was brewing for the Western powers that caused for this to take effect. No doubt much resentment and mistrust of the West has remained ever since the Shah was ousted

2. Is Western Media coverage of Iran impartial?
one assumes in so-called democratic countries that claim to be the flag-bearers of freedom that the media does not act as the 4th branch of the military. But the truth has it that States especially in the West maintain certain directives based on "personal interest" and that tends to be the line that media walks. So in that environment is anything really impartial? The answer would be NO. So in the current circumstance u will find the media building up the "threat" of Iran and its nuclear enrichment as a cause for much concern and to beat the drums of war as we saw it against Iraq

3. What does the West stand to gain from its impartial perspective on Iran?

The West has to the relationship building to win back the trust of Iran. How can this be achieved? Well, by first ensuring that the US & the European Union show even handedness when it comes to Palestine and other matters. The West is in no position to make demands without trust building. The West has to gain just as any other country a good mutual economically viable relations.

4. What threat, if any does Iran pose to the West in terms of
(i) Politics
(ii) Economics
(iii) Military

Iran follows an ideology an Islamic narrative. Islam does not pose a threat in any sphere of the imagination of a sane person it cannot. Economically, Iran is a regional power and an emerging one on the world stage by no means does it compare with GDP of any Western power.

Militarily, it poses no threat whatsoever it has the 5th lowest budget for military expenditure in the Middle East. Even if it was nuclear armed it could not threaten the US or Israel infact it would only be used in a deterrence capacity.

5. Based on previous confrontations what would the consequences be of this media war?

The media war is trying to legitimacy for an act of aggression which is nothing short of an advocator for intervention militarily. The sanctions first policy is a prequel to that. First the media builds the threat(justified or not is not important), secondly it builds a fear of that which u dont understand and the final step is once u won the public opinion over u engage in act of WAR.

^Considering it was both you and LP that introduced...."Israel"....as your target...Maybe you should go back and read your own posts Bro, as there's no reference to any Jewish sect anywhere in your text....only Israel....

And as we all know many Arab states and sects have a mandate to wipe Israel the Jewish state off the map, which is as we know called genocide.... which fits as the only feelings both you and LP have expressed towards Israel on this site is hatred..

Israel has no such mandate towards the Arab states

"I'd imagine your normal source of news in this particular issue is either CNN or BBC" you can't be serious???? For one I live in Australia and I never watch the BBC or CNN, secondly I'm a little more subjective and well read than that...

I'm currently studying for a degree in Ancient history, I suggest you go and research some of the Islamic jihads many Muslims have embarked on over the centuries and how many millions of innocents were killed in these so called holy wars of subjugation... like Christianity much of Islam's spread was due to the use of the sword......probably more so...

As I've said earlier I don't agree with all that Israel has done, I had an old school friend who was a Colonel in the NZ army based in Israel under the UN, he found them very arrogant and said they carried out their reprisals to the extreme.

I think the problem lies with many independent extremist militant Islamic sects that continue to attack Israel, mortar suicide bombings etc Israel then responds with reprisals that hit many innocents. Unless the Arab governments can control these extremists the war will continue and innocents will continue to die

Personally I don't think the extremists will ever be controlled they don't want to stop, have no intention of stopping,. They can't and will not be controlled by the governments, it gives them power and wealth and control, at least to the leaders..Much like in Ireland where extortion and coercion was used by both parties against their own people

Hells teeth man, they turn innocent human beings, some very well educated into human suicide bombers, this is using religion at its most evil... they are turning your religion against your own, these innocents are brain washed, there is nothing glorious in this, it is sick...