Apostrophe from an ignored forum

Beyond Life's Gateway

I recently wrote a poem and entered it in a contest. One of the judges challenged my placement of the apostrophe in this line
(A record of life's journey to the sacred light )

http://www.poems-and-quotes.com/misc/poems.php?id=1235079

Judge One - 57 points
Form 17/30
Content 40/70
It takes guts to attempt a villanelle and this poem stayed true to form. The grammar wasn't great. There were some spots where a comma was missed, or an apostrophe misplaced, misspelling of 'polls'. The rhyming was a tad forced, especially the intriguing bit about 'mythical moles'. The pace of this poem felt a little disordered with its wordy and uneven sentences.

Maybe the reference was to this line:

"Blindly cast out of the heaven's by Saint Michael's might"

where heavens would have been appropriate

Thank you, I did not think of that

"There were some spots where a comma was missed, or an apostrophe misplaced,"

^^^^^SSoooooo Funnyyyy Poetry is not an mathematical equation.... It is obvious to see that this person has no depth to see an art when he/she finds one.. ~smiles~ I wonder how Shakespeare's made up words would have been scored here lololol
I mean REALY lol

You just keep writing dear Brother.. you are Brilliant....

I dig the whole "art-is-whatever-you-want-it-to-be" thing. Like the comment above said, it's not a "mathematical equation", maybe he's right. But in some ways, I understand the judge dude there too. Being grammatically correct doesn't hurt, actually, it's necessary in a lot of ways. I mean, misusing a comma or apostrophe etc.(or lack thereof) can turn a line or a sentence into a whole new one, giving the line or the sentence a whole new meaning, but you guys already know that. Well, basically what I want to say is, it doesn't hurt to check things once or twice before posting them, hehe. :D

... By the way, awesome poem there, Michael.

Can I just say making judgements on poems as a judge in contests is subjective and no easy task, and can open the judge to criticism. Many times it's a complete battle to find anybody at all to take on this roll and this is one of the reasons

Just saying

I agree and if I had not been so wrapped in heaven's bliss I would have read down the poem and found what the judge failed to specify . I cannot excuse my mistake of pride, having a name like Michael does not make me see everything

Hey Michael your contributions, thoughts and poems have added immensely to flavor and success of this site over the years.

We all know where your coming from here, so don't let it worry you

That judge was a she and she was me. Michael, I would have responded a lot sooner if you had enquired through Larry, the contest host. I do not always check the boards but I do check my PMs. This is fine, though.

In future, when criticising a judge's comment in a new public thread, quote their comment in its entirety and post your poem in its original version as when it was judged. That is fairer.

As you have now gathered, my comment about your grammar was in reference to your poem as a whole and not only the line you had, for some reason, picked out. To me, even your title could do with an apostrophe. I'm glad you corrected 'polls' to 'poles'.

I am not sorry that I 'failed to specify' each and every grammatical error. I was a judge, not your editor. I had to check, comment and score 14 formed poems. My comments were already given in much greater detail than usually required, but I am happy to go over your poem with you if you are interested.

Normally, I focus my comments on a poem's uniqueness and impact of delivery, but Larry had specially asked his judges to also assess the poems' form, flow, syntax etc. I did, and if your inconsistent grammar was for the sake of "art" as suggested above, then it didn't help your cause. My opinion only, of course.

Illuminati, I'm sorry you don't feel the linguistics of a poem is worthy of comment. Though I welcome disagreement and discussion of judges' comments, your flippant, ignorant and callous remark makes me grateful you no longer moderate this site.

Michael, I hope your poem gets a few more clicks out of this. Wink.

I'll just go ahead a post my attempt at a villanelle here

It could not be any better or worse than the things we tried to pretend was poetry in Baby rainbows last contest lol

Poetry may be reflections of immortal souls
A record of life's journey to the sacred light
Each poet has their own individual goals

We are inspired by our missions we have our roles
Most of the time future visions are out of sight
Poetry may be reflections of immortal souls

Some gravitate toward spiritual black holes
Others find substance in the light and hold on tight
Each poet has their own individual goals

There are proverbial angels as well as the mythical moles
Blindly cast out of the heaven's by Saint Michael's might
Poetry may be reflections of immortal souls

It seems to be colder in the extremes of the polls
As a wayward stranger discerns between wrong or right
Each poet has their own individual goals

The good often die young as evil doers take tolls
Though the enlightened strive with grace for a new height
Poetry may be reflections of immortal souls
Each poet has their own individual goals

This is the original, and there was some bad grammar

How much of it did you leave not criticized ?

Which was the worst grammar in the required repetitive lines ?

Not criticizing the critiques... I have admitted several times I can stand improvement and if anyone can give constructive criticism that would help many of us.

BTW I think your Villanelle should have been published in the Taj Mahal review lol
http://www.poems-and-quotes.com/funny/poems.php?id=1224990

Michael I was also a judge in Larry's contest and I must say I have very little experience in most formed poetry, so probably not an ideal judge, but Larry asked so happy to help out if and when and I can

Judging one form against another was bloody difficult i must say

As with Abby, Larry asked us to judge on "Form" as well as "content". Trying to get consistency on what's acceptable in any one form is bloody difficult. What's acceptable to some is frowned upon by others. As with Haiku, some say only the traditional form is acceptable while others say anything goes. So where does that leave us as judges ? Well I'll tell you ! Up the proverbial creek without a paddle, and on a hiding to nothing with the poets we judged. Which is why, in most cases it was easier to stick with Larry's guidelines, which is what I think we all did as judges, and why Abby judged you the way she did. Abby gave a much longer and better critique than I did. If I was to give a longer critique I would have said the same though not as eloquently mind you

We were given a brief and we stuck to it as best we could

Then if you don't mind answer the questions lol

She'll be right mate.

Religion a last grasp at
immortality..!!!!

So, Michael, you've outed my judges.

Yes, I had the audacity to ask Abby, Nicko & Rania to judge.

What a wonderful mixture they were and I'm amazed they all agreed so willingly. Especially once I gave them the rules on how to score, which they have now revealed.

Blame me, the form-meister rather than these hard-pressed judges with FOURTEEN DIFFERENT TYPES of formed poetry to somehow assess on an even playing field.

Haha Abby, Nicko?? now I know why judging did not go well. :) :)

but seriously it was a great contest.

It was my bad about the apostrophe . I posted the question a few weeks ago in a dead forum. if I had thought to read down the villanelle I should have caught that . your judges did a great job and I understand my grammar mistakes as a hillbilly dialect was my first language I first realized I was a red neck when I tried to spell a while ago . Red necks say walago lol

T

I LOVE YOU GUYS LMAO
Thank you judges I am sorry the mole metaphor was over your heads ,but thanks for sending me to the next round

It seems to be colder in the extremes of the polls
,but polls are great for feedback ;)

Remember, Ddavidd, no judge knew who any of the others were.

In hindsight, Larry, I believe all three judges were very generous with there time and I learned a lot about my personal style

--------------------------------------------
3 - Poet's reflection - Total Points: 189

Judge One - 57 points
Form 17/30
Content 40/70
It takes guts to attempt a villanelle and this poem stayed true to form. The grammar wasn't great. There were some spots where a comma was missed, or an apostrophe misplaced, misspelling of 'polls'. The rhyming was a tad forced, especially the intriguing bit about 'mythical moles'. The pace of this poem felt a little disordered with its wordy and uneven sentences.
It was clear that the writer had thought sincerely about the subject and there was a lot of truth and density in the poem. However, I felt the execution just wasn't effective. The alternating lines often didn't seem to connect within their stanzas. And there were too many images crowding it. Despite the rhyming form, it almost felt like an essay. I would encourage the writer who thinks with such impressive gravity to focus on fewer concepts/metaphors per poem so the reader can be given a cleaner and clearer impression.

----------------

An interesting poem. Expressed the topic in a general way,
although it would have been better to sense a personal touch,
but taking poets in general was also well thought of.

The flow seemed to be a little off in different stanzas,
as well as the bond that held the whole piece seemed
to be broken a little bit.

The images were pretty nice, but should have made
a stronger relation with each other to convey the
message the poet was trying to make.

Best of luck.

Judge Two - 65

----------------

22 points for difficulty and execution of form
45 for content
Judge Three - 67 points

Certainly a cleverly written poem to adhere to the rhyming scheme but feel the poem could have been a little tighter with less filler words used, this would have conveyed the emotive content more effectively

Did not go well for who ddavidd ?

Larry haha then they managed to improvise sucking at it equally.

For me Nicko
haha because I did not enter.

Do I need to explain that I am only joking??

Ddavid

Don't bother explaining anything just keeping your silly misplaced humour out of it would be good, if that's what it was.

As for your sordid little insinuation, Abby has more integrity in her little finger than you will ever have

Don't know why I bother with peanuts

It went very well for me because I perceive all of my poems as written from personal experiences

"Expressed the topic in a general way,
although it would have been better to sense a personal touch"

I can't tell you how many debates with Kevin came to mind or how odd I thought it was when a poet that suspected she would die would not want her PQ account just to fade away like a pair of warn Blue Jeans . 'Poet's Reflection' even had my first name in it ,yet it would have been better if I had chosen a non repeating form lol

Why do you bother with peanuts? that is a good question!! I haven't seen you being able to see beyond THE peanut, for a long time.
Why you answer for Abby? I think she has enough integrity to over pass THE peanut. Also me and her are old friends and bigger than this and for sure we do not need a peanut in between us.
In the end I am sorry if I made you mad. It was not my intention. I do not joke with you anymore. It is too late for some of us to grow up.
And right again but that little finger, exactly measures up with the size of YOUR integrity.

Whatever ddavid

Have you heard from Jordan lately or has he defected

I always found his etymologies interesting

The Lord Who Heals. Yahweh-Raphah: "The Lord Who Heals" Exodus 15:22-26. From rophe ("to heal");. implies spiritual, emotional as well as physical healing.

apost+rophe send forth the healing :)

Old English apostol, via ecclesiastical Latin from Greek apostolos 'messenger,' from apostellein 'send forth.'

mid 16th century (denoting the omission of one or more letters): via late Latin, from Greek apostrophos 'accent of elision,' from apostrephein 'turn away,' from apo 'from' + strephein 'to turn.'

Online Etymology Dictionary

1520s, from Late Latin antithesis, from Greek antithesis "opposition, resistance," literally "a placing against," also a term in logic and rhetoric,

Well, this almost turned into an apostrophe catastrophe. Heh heh. Nicko and ddavidd, hug it out. (and thanks Nicko.) ddavidd, you're an alien but you know that.

Michael, I'm glad you've come around to appreciating the comments. And my villanelle. I must admit, it is one of my finest works, and is a near-perfect example of my integrity. I should think scores of people could learn from it. Why the Taj Mahal Review?

Cyberwit.net Explorers A Collection
of Contemporary literature and the
Taj Mahal review.

I have two paperback copies of the Taj Mahal review. that published my villanelle "Infatuation"

The filter on this site made me post under explicit

Infatuation
by Michael D Nalley

Cupid, you tainted angel, are you teasing me?
Piercing my heart with your illusive arrow?
How could my foolish desire be pleasing thee?

In the wake of your wound, I feel ecstasy
My soul flies much higher than a sparrow
Cupid, you tainted angel, are you teasing me?

Lost in the dream of what could be
A fool's vision is so very narrow
How could my foolish desire be pleasing thee?

In my mind's eye I have already begun to see
I am as a Hebrew was to a mighty Pharaoh
Cupid you tainted angel, are you teasing me?

Is my strength in my shell, in the realm of reality?
Wounded by the bone of my rib, yet she's not my marrow?
How could my foolish desire be pleasing thee?

Wounded hearts lie trapped in a cage crying to be free
The dirt of our lust unbroken by your hoe, or harrow
Cupid, you tainted angel, are you teasing me?
How could my foolish desire be pleasing thee?

Do you suppose it was because I wrote lust and hoe in the same line ?????????? lol

Alien?? doesn't sound very friendly. You do not use the primitive language but your surgical knife seems more pungent.
But if I am right about what you mean by this, yes I alienated myself from you ( as a group, when you became a group) because you were alien to the truth I was looking for.

"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth."
Mahatma Gandhi

Than who is alien now??

Davidd ddavid David, you have done Abby such an injustice. For somebody who claims enlightenment you're not that bright at times

What Abby was alluding to went straight over your head....

Still she can talk it herself. And she does it way better than you do. You repeat my name three times but still cannot get it right. I know you do it out of mean spirit.

I can be insulting like you but I rather to insult you in places that your peanut could never reach. Not that if I want to, but for what you've become forces me to.

You had the chance, comprehension wise, to become a sentient being, but instead you chose to be merely a pare of fangs that even those people who you try to protect sometimes are not at ease with your barks
You are not responding to any intelligence, only to the motions of if someone might want to harm any member of your group. What is more primal than that?

Talk to me old mate, tell me intelligently if you still have it in you, What was Abby alluding, that went straight over my head....

do you have that much reason left in you?

Yeah, total misinterpretation there, ddavidd. You used to like being called an alien, but perhaps you've alienated yourself so far, you can't recognise that anymore.

It's pretty insulting to have you calling Nicko and me people incapable of seeing truth and being sentient beings. Your ego is more inflated, presuming and preachier than ever.

Let's just accept we're all aliens and move on. This is getting pretty ridiculous and we're not appreciating Michael's villanelles enough.

Dear Abby, I did not said you are incapable of... there was a miss interpretation about alien as you recognized. I said if you think I am alienated it is: "because you were alien to the truth I was looking for."
Still, there is no insult in saying: you are not capable of seeing the truth
Do you know what insult is: putting people down by referring to them as peanut, and:
"keeping your silly misplaced humour "
"your sordid little insinuation"
"Abby has more integrity in her little finger than you will ever have"

But what is really hidden and suppressed from mediocre eyes is "thanking" Nicko meant the verification of the little finger insult. Which is more even insulting then when he said it.

But I know it is all miss understanding perhaps.

Ddavidd you chucked our friendship out the window some weeks ago or have you forgotten about that !...now you have accused Abby and myself as judges of manipulating Larry's contest because we are from the same club
Now that's insulting to both Abby, myself, Larry and everybody in the contest
No doubt you will hide behind spilt milk but calling you a Peanut is letting you off pretty lightly if you ask me !

Not to mention wreaking Michaels thread

You Mr. brainy how could I: ""..you have accused Abby and myself as judges of manipulating Larry's contest because we are from the same club "" if I did not even participate in the competition and read even one of the poems??
As soon as Larry said your name I just jumped out and made fun with that. We use to be able to joke like this before rabies you know!
You do not need to hide behind Larry and Michael or Abby. Be a man and stand up for yourself.
Believe me they have enough maturity and grace to defend themselves or handle a joke.

I threw the friendship out of the window. Do you hear yourself? You only are looking for an excuse to justify your vulgar and low class language.

My bad is that I saw you were touchy about the issue but I still pushed, for it is funny for me how people take themselves so serious (including myself) when they become judges.

I recall a member saying that a former mod (not BS ) used to wreck threads . I noticed the apostrophe on members' message forum denotes a possessive plural ( all this time I thought I had forgotten all that I attempted to rebel against while in a private catholic school)

http://youtu.be/mRGbAspKLJk

At times I wonder how I would judge my passions as my so called integrity evolved

davvidd I have always seen you as more spiritual than religious and that is not at all bad heavens to Murgatryod (Mugatroyd predates the wizard of oz) heaven is a place in the mind heart and soul of universal con/science

I don't feel that anyone has wrecked or broken this thread ;)

Thanks Michael
My religion is not the one of average Joe.
The one that people crusade for. I hundred percent believe in "the Word" Also it matches Socrates, Hafez and Rumi's teachings. I believe in the essence. Platonism, Christianity, Zoroastrianism, and Zen Buddhism are very close to where I am in which is nowhere. At least I do not need to draw knife all the time for the people who do not share my believes and are not a member of my club.

A mentor tolled me 16 yeas ago: Only those go to enlightenment that are chosen for the path but in order to get there one should never become a member in any group or believe what so ever. In other word the path sometimes goes along with some paths but mixing your path with them you lose THE path.

Enough of your BS about being a man ddavidd. I have never stood behind anybody on this site as you well know. If I see something I disagree with, as in this case where I was accused of something as insidious as colusiom. I will be up front and center !! You called me out and here I am ! If you want to take it further feel free, take it to the mods or PM me

Chill out, guys.

90% of your argument is based on misperception and pride.

Let it go. Do what ice does in summer.

Yep that's fair Larry, good call... I've said my peace

It's just like Rosanne Rosannadanna used to say "it's always something, if it is not a catastrophe causing drama it's an apostrophe"

Yoda anastrophe quotes

http://youtu.be/aVvMso7yaHA