Silence

What does this mean?
:

No one uttered a word
not the host, nor the guest
neither the white chrysanthemum.

This is one of the most profound haikus of all times
A Shmloo describes after he read this he could never take it out of his mind.

I know this is a rehash of my 5 years ago thread.

I do not know the haiku of which you directly refer, but I write you this senryu for it's place:

Dharma Gate

Picks up flower
Mahakasyapa alone
smiles subtly.

This one:
Oshima Ryota (1718-1787)

Very beautiful, though it's not a haiku :)

I wonder why a white crysanthemum? Anyone know what they represent?

Haha it is not haiku! tell this to master :Oshima Ryota

I am glad you like it.

Err, haiku has 5/7/5 syllables. This doesnt. What am I missing ? Lol

Translation! that is what you missing.( from Japanese )

This is the way you like:
they spoke no words
the visitor, the host
and the white chrysanthemum

See it is not the same.

Well that definitely changes things hahaha I didn't realize it was a translation.

Haha it is so easy to make that mistake. Because everyone writes haiku nowadays and it is adapted and well established in the English language, people tend to forget it is a Japanese tradition in Art not only poetry.

I absolutely do. I wonder what English haikus would translate like in Japanese, and if they cringe about it? Lol

The space in the Japanese haikus whether in poetry or drawing is so vast, the way they could say a lot with few words and depict so much with few line, that I think they would just laugh at our haikus.

The white chrysanthemum is there to highlight the silence. It is unassuming in colour, and it's a mild and common flower, yet the silence is so powerful and pure that even the chrysanthemum's presence and noiselessness is observed.

The host and the guest could be references to a person's private communion/meditation with god or a spirit.

Or the whole thing could just be about a really awkward moment between a couple of old acquaintances, both looking at the white flower as a means of distraction and next topic of conversation.

I think the 'profound' effect of the hiaku is definitely diminished by the english translation.

The mix up with the syllable count during translation is this...most Asian countries group certain sounds together to make one syllable in the characters they write in (eg. kanji) and, when translated into other languages it generally becomes longer in structure.

Hmmm, been thinkin.

Somehow, I get the feeling that the white chrysanthemum could be a representation of a cloud in the room. A cloud, silent and laden, filling the silence, waiting to thunder and lightening and rain. This is symbolised as the chrysanthemum's petals eventually fall, one by one, the silence broken by each crash as they hit the ground... then silence again. And the host and guest are left with the feeling of utter revelation of their own resounding mortality, created and destroyed by time, yet forever woven into the perennial cloth of silence. It would make all the other objects in the room- floorboards, wallpaper, door hinges, etc- quite noisy in comparison, and this translates to the omnipresent hum of the universe that tangles the threads of our minds with visions of self-grandeur. But what is there left of God in the white chrysanthemum?

That is the question the poem asks.

Translation by another person and puts a different perspective on things again...

nobody talks -
guests and host and
a white chrysanthemum
---------------

forwarding the camera and my thoughts....

and then...a floorboard creeks
and my eyes peek
to seek

ah...a single petal
of the white chrysanthemum
had become
unvirginalised on the naked
floor...making it creek.

and...in the midst of
my tai chi pose
I froze...
distracted by
the single petal
which fell
from the
white chrysanthemum
and still
neither host nor guest
had spoken...outwardly...

Silence is a sound.

WRONG.

I am never wrong Ms Abbyluss, I arrive at being less than right precisely as I mean too!

So, if you walked into a room with no audible sounds of note, you'd know the room was silent how?

It would probably not be completely silent as where there is a medium for vibrations to travel through, there is usually some sound at some level. So I wouldn't KNOW if it was truly silent (as in a vacuum), but it would seem silent to me and that's all that matters.

A sound is a physical thing, and silence is the absence of that thing. So you can't hear silence. Your ear drum isn't moving. But you can feel the effects of it.

However, you and ddavidd can wax lyrical about it, don't let me stop you poetic types.

I think Kevin meant to say, "if you FLOATED into a room IN SPACE with no audible sounds of note, you'd know the room was silent how?"

Excellent question. You'd probably know by the alien holding up the "shh!" sign.

There are some modes of thought that say that white isn't a color, just the absence of it. Kind of a similar concept.

Kind of like bald isn't a hairstyle I guess. This is also much disputed.

Seems like ddavidd has shown us the Real Meaning of silence by closing his account...

About time. Wonder what his next incarnation will be.

Hi ddavidd.

^^ "Kind of like bald isn't a hairstyle I guess."

Hey!

Oopsies.

Some people will got to any lengths to avoid paying the promised comments Larry was due in the quiz thread but really ddavidd! closing your account to avoid doing so was...well....a little extreme :)

Hahahaha

For the record Larry, baldness may not be a hairstyle, but it's certainly stylish. ;)

It's not really baldness, but partial baldness that gives rise to creative hairstyles.

the comb-over
the fringe
the flip back (Frozen)

my wife finally agreed to let me do away with the comb over and go to the widow's peak

Humph, not a style . . .

I love this poem.
I relate to this as a death poem; that is, a life poem. And that neither life nor death follow each other; they are part of one another, as is the mind and body.
"No one" , all is emptiness; there was nothing to say as well as nothing could be said to change the fact of death. We all just pass through a wondrous moment after moment.

What an exhumation. Dear Leslie it makes it more interesting considering that you most likely opened your account only for this thread. So many are going to speculate that you are me. But it is not true,

But about the haiku, I am in-love with it too.