New Year, New Term

This weekend is the last for our current judges.
Thanks to all of you!!!

Which also means we need volunteers for January & February.

Volunteers still needed. Let's get the new year started off strong!!

We have two stalwart judges.
We need three more by Friday.

Three judges are signed up
Need two more today, please!
After that we'll just go with what we have, although there will be fewer HMs.

was there 4 or 5 judges previously?

with only 3 thats 9 picks,
if there was 5 thats 6 picks and comments less.

Is the contest viable with only three judges?

We've scrambled to start with 5 judges every term thus far. The more judges, the more winners and honorable mentions we can have each week, but we can't make members volunteer. If only 3 members volunteer this term, that's a bummer, but it's not moderator error (not that you suggested it was!). Mods host the contest and rotate sub judging duties each week, but moderators are not meant to be full time judges. Moderator and judge are separate positions. If no one else steps forward, the contest will run with 3 judges. Of course we will continue to sub if a judge needs a week off here and there during their term :)

I did mention this in a pm to Larry a while back, but I truly do believe that the new system is a mistake. I admit to thinking it was a good idea to begin with but having to find new judges every couple of months rather than the previous four is far harder. At least once they are in place, they are there and that can be crossed of the mods' worry list for a good length of time.
It may be more daunting to judge for an extended period, but in the long run, this sort of scenario would happen less frequently.

You might be right; however, the longer terms usually result in 1-2 judges dropping off by the midpoint and mods then subbing full time until the end of the term. We can certainly lengthen the term again though if you think it’s worth a shot. I, for one, am willing to try whatever you guys think will motivate more members to want to judge.

I can’t speak for other mods, but I am growing weary of so much dependency on the mods to act as judges.

Jane, I didn't realise so many dropped out.
I understand your frustration. I cannot say for certain, but there seems to me to be a fairly small number of people that ever volunteer to judge and yet an awful lot of people who reap the benefits of their time.

For the contest to be viable more people need to step up.
I understand that nobody can be forced to do it though

Out of the last three judging terms I have judged for 2 of them.
If there is a variety of judges there will be a variety of winners and HM's
we all have our tastes when it comes to poetry and some strike a chord more than others

It's a shame more people don't offer, I can remember when I first ever asked to judge I almost pleaded and argued my case.
How times have changed on this site.

“I cannot say for certain, but there seems to me to be a fairly small number of people that ever volunteer to judge and yet an awful lot of people who reap the benefits of their time.” -B

“If there is a variety of judges there will be a variety of winners and HM's
we all have our tastes when it comes to poetry and some strike a chord more than others.” -D

You are both absolutely right, Ben and Darren.

-

To all members: If you have ever benefitted from the weekly contest by earning an HM or a win, now is a great time to pay it back and volunteer as a judge, especially if you never have :)

I've never been a judge in all the years I've been on here I will admit. My reasons are varied (I travel a lot, sometimes remote where I don't have internet access.) I did not like to commit to the 4 month cycle that was previously in place and also...let me say now that I have offered my services in the past as a judge, just not an anonymous one...I don't really get that to be honest?

We have 5 judges! Yay!

Edit: False alarm.

We have 4.

To all members: If you have ever benefitted from the weekly contest by earning an HM or a win, now is a great time to pay it back and volunteer as a judge, especially if you never have :)

So...I'm more than willing to be the judge that puts a name against a comment up front ...

Hi All :)

Not really a thread for people that haven't been judges, but I will keep it to myself whether I have or not. The anonymous side of judging makes it feel a little more intriguing and special - in my opinion.

Is there a way that for a term to actually only have 3 judges who pick more, as they are reading all of the poems anyway? may make it easier when signing judges up.

Also maybe every week on the 'poems page' put out an advert for 'judges required' as I really do not feel that members search anywhere other than the poem page. need to find more ways to encourage (not force haha)

Anyway happy new year all
Much love M :)x

Just to put it out there for all to see and comment...if I was a judge this week here are my choices...

Escape...Satish Verma (10)
Of Love So True (Rondeau) Michael (7)
Keeping in Simple Vince Gullaci (4)

If you disagree with my choices please tell me why...???

Well,we have another judge so this thread has worked to some extent or other...

Personally, I'm not sure how much it matters either way in regards to a judges anonymity; plenty of competitions are judged where the identity of the judges is known. What I would say, then, is that if other members are willing to judge but only openly, perhaps that should be considered. It's not like the site can be too picky at the moment and I personally would love to see Hellon judge, not least because I know she would be fair and as capable as anyone. It seems like a resource wasted at the moment, perhaps.

*edit - I for one would have no qualms about judging openly, although I am aware of some of the problems surrounding the issue

Maybe we could have a guest open judge each week?

*Edit

Each week after the weekly contest results are announced the mods open a new thread asking publicly for volunteers for this week's guest judge.
They wouldn't need to promote either the mods could cast their votes for them

Darren, I think that's a great idea.

Sounds fun!

Anonymity issues:
Some time back, more than 8 years ago, a mod took on the contest as that mod's personal project. The mod set up a platform outsde PNQ for the judges to discuss the week's poetry and to decide the winners between them. There was apparently quite a bit of persuasion and coercion to arrive at winners. The outcome was alienation of judges and charges that the mod was fixing the outcome.

Sometimes appearance alone is bad. Mods don't like to vote because we can see the existing votes by the other judges by the time we know we need to vote. No current mod would deliberately skew the results but there is the fact we know how our votes will affect the winners and it is not a comfortable feeling. We cannot avoid seeing the votes, they are right there with the poem on the nomination page. Just the appearance of having that undue power is not good.

The same way, although I highly admire Hellon and value her integrity, it establishes a precedent that sets up a less dynamic judge to be subject to proselytizing by fans of one poet or another. The burden of being a judge becomes greater.

- Larry

I had to google proselytizing

every day is a school day ;-)

I think you make a fair point Larry, however I don't think the site is either not busy enough or as cut throat as it used to be.

The Mods could choose the guest judge out of those who come forward.
IF any proselytizing does happen then that person could let a Member of the mod squad know.

Can you imagine anybody trying to proselytize Hellon?

(No offence to Hellon)

Can you imagine anybody trying to proselytize Hellon?

(No offence to Hellon)

^^^

None taken Darren. May I just say, however, that I am quite partial to chocolate chip cookies *winks* lol!

I do like the idea of a guest judge on a weekly bases. It would definitely suit me better to put my name up (anonymously if necessary) on the weeks that I'm in Perth.

There was apparently quite a bit of persuasion and coercion to arrive at winners.

^^^

Yes but that was mostly between the judges (who were allowed to confer) and one mod...not the members. Also, as there are no longer any clubs I think, perhaps, proselytism (is that a word haha) will be minimal.

What about asking everyone on the site to dedicate at least one term.of one month or two per year as part of the community spirit and then the mods can approach people on the list who havent yet stepped up?

We have five judges for this term. Thanks to all who stepped up.

We can still discuss the best long term solutions, if you would.

I'd like to carry on the discussion if possible. I can't commit to a two month term because I'm not in Perth so much now but, I would still like to help out when, and if I can so, the 'guest judge' suggestion really suits me personally. I guess it wouldn't work for everyone but maybe a few members are facing the same predicament and would like to assist when they are available...

The only problem with a weekly guest judge is that someone still has to volunteer and once the novelty of the idea has gone, the mods are then left scraping around every week to find someone. Maybe there will be no shortage of enthusiasm and I might just be pessimistic but it doesn't automatically solve the issue of finding people.

Well it seems they scrape around anyway as some mods have already admitted some judges drop out mid way and they are then left to judge themselves...if there was a reserve list of 'guest judges' to call on then that would surely help to ease the problem...wouldn't it?

Lets put it to the test...add your name if you like.

When I'm available count me in...(probably every second week)

Hellon

A reserve list, now that's an idea. Not sure that had been mentioned before, though. Darren's idea was coming up with a weekly thread, which I thought maybe a bit haphazard and chancy. The guest judge notion as a whole is great in my opinion.

The idea is definitely worth trying,absolutely.

So Ben...would you like to add you name to the reserve list?

Hellon, I judge anyway.

Well...I guess that idea is f**cked for the next two months but...do you think the idea is a viable one??

I didn't say I judged now, I said 'I judge' meaning in general. However, I would love the idea of stepping in as a guest judge now and again, but I think the idea better suits people who can't ever commit to a longer term, otherwise we go back to the same problem: the same judges on cycle.

Ben and Darren have both spent a significant chunk of their time judging for PnQ, taking on many terms when no one else would. We have maybe 5-10 members on this site who regularly volunteer their time to the contest. I would love for people who don’t volunteer to hop on the reserve list first since a week here and there is better than nothing! By the way, I am all for a reserve list of guest judges starting next term. We would probably need a running calendar of when guest judges have weeks available so we’re not scrambling through the list trying to find one who is free every week.