Another Intelligent Chat: The Pope

Pope John Paul II is now buried and the Conclave of Cardinals is to begin.

What did you think of Pope John Paul II and what he did both in the Catholic Church and in the world?

If you could select the qualities of the Pope to come, what would they be?

What do you see the future of the Catholic Church?

I hope that the future of any Church is that they burn- harsh, but true.

I think that the Pope was generally a good man, but I dont agree with how he handled the child molestation charges brought against his organization. I didnt follow his other actions closely enough to really say much else.

I hope that the new Pope isnt strictly Catholic, but I doubt I'll get my wish ;).

I just hope he sets good example for humanity and does good for the world.

Related topic:

http://www.poems-and-quotes.com/discussion/topic.html?topic_id=16612

I hope he's a really conservative bad ass.

I hope he views the clergy in the same light as everyone else and clean up the Catholic Church.

I hope he likes football like JPII.

I hope he is opinionated, pig headed and I hope he takes on the glut of greed and ultra-liberalism that is consuming the earth head on.

I hope he upholds the old ways. I hope he is a force against conformist change.

The new Pope is gonna be either a black dude from Africa, or a Chinese dude from....well China. And the reason? The church is all about power and influence, and right now the numbers of Roman catholics in Europe are steadly dropping. Only in China and Africa does the Vatican have good increasing numbers...and so i reckon the new Pope will be representative of those countries....and he will be as conbservative and dogmatic as every other Pope, or he'll be assasinated...simple really.

Quote from Bill Hicks sketch;

"And i love watching the Pope bounce around in his little Pope mobile...i mean, surrounded on all sides by 5 inches of bullet proof plexi glass...now thats faith in action huh folks?"

Heh heh.

lol- the quote.

OK, back to business.

I hope that the Pope is such a hard ass that all the half Catholics discover they arent really Catholics at all and go find spirituality without the confines of organized religion, then we wont have to deal with the Catholics AND the damn half Catholics (that are in actuality JUST confused).

I hope that this Pope gives everybody one hell of an identity crisis.

But it wont happen.

The Pope is going to have to adapt more to our current ways of life or watch his numbers fall in all developed nations. Why are the numbers rising in China and Africa? They're gullible. They are developing nations, and it's sad that the Catholics are treating them like they treated the Indians when they came to America... sick, sick, sick.

The lesser developed countries are far from gullible, it's western scientific and technological philosophy and lack faith these days that gives them that appearance.

No one is forcing anyone into religion these days, the freedom of choice and come to a faith naturally is the way things are done in the modern theatre of christian religion.

It's psychological manipulation that makes them gullible, not that their lives are being threatened.

They are playing off of fear instincts, religion always has. I think it's wrong, but I cant stop it, so party on.

Is it any less psychological that people are veering away from religion these days?

Catholicism and Christianity are both seen as being uncool and out of date in the eyes of youth due to tv, peer pressure and mass advertising. Can you get anymore psychological than that?

I disagree.

I think that evolution and free thought is making itself known. People are more willing to question old belief systems.

I see nowhere that it is "uncool" to be Christian, I see that it is fad to be... say... Goth, punk, or athiest, but not that being religious is being disencouraged (is that a word?).

Psychology is used any way that it can be utelized to make a pretty penny for someone who knows what they are doing.

Psychology is the fastest and most assured way to get anything you want, a basic understanding is imperative to anyone who wants to get anywhere, certainly for mass organizations. Look at the use of NLP in personal interaction.

I dont BLAME the church for using it, it's brilliant, still sick, in my opinion.

The premise that atheism (not to mention everyother fad and culture that does not encourage religion) is being promoted has a direct influence on religion.

So if atheism is seen as being cool for kids then Christianity must, as a reaction, be uncool.

But then being atheist is no different from being christian and should not be considered a fad as it is a theological standpoint, even though there have been numerous posts here where people have they have tried it (which suggests fadism).

Just because something is fad does not mean that the antithesis is uncool, it just means it's not a fad.

For instance, where I live, snow boarding is a fad but skiing is not uncool.

Athiesm is cool (or creepy, depending on how you think) and Christianity is respected as a belief system that holds validity. It is not cool, nor uncool. It just IS what people are.

Although theological stance should not be considered "fad," or "uncool," it can be considered as such.

WHY it is considered that way is because people dont put enough thought into their beliefs and will fall for fads when they come alone, blindly following the pack and not daring to think for themselves, which I think is worse than being strictly religious.

If a religious person can give well thought out reason for their belief (besides I'm right, you're wrong), I respect them so much more than if they have obviously put 0 thought into WHY they believe what they believe. Not that my judgement is God's, mind you ;).

People shouldnt be religious or spiritual because it is cool. They should be what they are because they believe it through their heart, mind, and soul.

Quote kaitlin kristen People should not be religious or spiritual because it is cool. They should be what they are because they believe it through their heart, mind, and soul.
Quote George Carlin I am a firm believer in the separation of church and state. Because either one of these institutions can screw you up bad enough on their own UNQUOTE but who, or what is the church, who or what is the state? when’ we the people ‘agree, we say WE
When we disagree with a person or a group we say they. The slang term cool as I understand it means acceptable. Does everyone agree on what is cool?

Your welcome Bob. you may be surprized that I can recal a priest quoting GEORGE CARLIN'S humor during sermons. So what your saying is cool is cool....... I can dig it... If I dig myself... I can dig others that dig me, but we can never dig higher than ourselves.... cool man .....fire another one up there great balls of wisdom.... or wise up there great balls of fire. sorry I got a little of the topic I think that the pope got some really bad press I still am not going to make judgments about him based on a press that I do not trust The only error in judgement I could find in his judgment was the appionting of Cardinal Law. I don't know a lot about the cardinals but I would like to see the one that booked Bob Dylan to perform for the Pope John Paul11 elected............................................. quote...
While preachers preach of evil fates
Teachers teach that knowledge waits
Can lead to hundred-dollar plates
Goodness hides behind its gates
But even the president of the United States
Sometimes must have
To stand naked.

a verse from Bob Dylan's song' It's allright ma I'm
only bleeding

Ha...Bobby me old lad....it's time i got inked.

hmmmm this is a very profound discussion ...no masterdebators allowed? I just can't beat it

I could do with $100 in my.... wallet ;)

Sorry.... just was way too perfect to pass up....

I am sorry for my puns also ..and I will resist the temptation to say that a big cat is very dangerous
you can't believe every thing you hear I heard that Oral Roberts has a brother...... the POEPLE ON THE RADIO said... that BILL MARR SAYS that he is not as well known because he prefers to be called A. R. does anyone believe that? I didn't GET IT unless he was implying his middle initial was H

I have been working some research on the claim that that the pope did not handle the scandal well. I thought I would share the statement of a victim whom attended the funeral

Blaine said American Catholics and victims of abuse should be allowed to mourn Pope John Paul -- whom she praised for saying there was no room in the Church for child abusers -- without being reminded of the sex abuse scandal and their pain.

Yes, we cant hang him now, he's dead.

However, we should see this as a lessen well learned and not let it happen again, yes?

Seriously, no one can punish him like God can.

Yes Kaitlin had it right when she said that he will be sainted and I have a great deal of respect for anyone who loves children jesus said that we should become like children to enter into the kindom. I am still curious as to when the alleged hush money was approved but anyway we all have seen that truth is just not that simple Will Rogers once said; quote; All 'I know is what I read in the papers'UNQUOTE. we can also learn a lot by looking at the bias of the press from either side. If juornalist were held to a high standard we would have news papers in courtrooms. The abuse victim that I sited did not hold all of the church leaders in such high regard. May the peace of the Lord be always With you.

Oh how I love where a subject like this can lead. ;)

*putting on my "How dare Bob Shank call Bob Shank an idiot!" button*

*withdrawing back into the shadows*

*Picks up the microphone*

How does it feel to find out that everyone all your life has lied to you, Bob?

........... and all of us feel like an idiot for believing those lies

Together in unity, a profound three, love of the trinity
they say the seekers find the peace within thier mind
peace comes with a cost if ever truth is lost. I think you have inspired another poem Bob. I will hone it latter. I can't resist sharing some words of wisdom by a famous lyric writter he often wrote things that could be considered rank. The fourth verse seems to confirm your last wise words. There is a power in humiliy, but I have heard some say that humility is a virtue that if you think you have it you don't. Dylan had a bone to pick with someone when he wrote this song Idoit Wind FEW LINES.............

Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.

People see me all the time and they just can't remember how to act
Their minds are filled with big ideas, images and distorted facts.
Even you, yesterday you had to ask me where it was at,
I couldn't believe after all these years, you didn't know me better than that........................

Idiot wind, blowing every time WE move OUR mouth,
Blowing down the backroads headin' south.
Idiot wind, blowing every time WE move OUR teeth,
we're an idiot, babe.
It's a wonder that we still know how to breathe.

There's a lone soldier on the cross, smoke pourin' out of a boxcar door,
WE didn't know it, WE didn't think it could be done, in the final end HE won the wars
After losin' every battle.
I HAVE MODIFIED THE LYRICS AS NOT TO OFFEND

I