Wicca

I have a couple of friends who solemnly believe in wicca, although i dont realy understand it.

So, Matt, what part of Wicca is it that you disbelieve?

I think that Wicca is messy, personally. I think that there are much simpler ways to get the same things accomplished, and I think that the kids who are practising it now have taken it really far from what it used to be like. The old Wiccan ways were all based around worshipping the earth and utelizing her tools to assist in daily life, not about making someone fall in love with you. The original beliefs have not been upheld, now it's a joke, but the old Wiccans were pretty damn cool if you ask me.

The type of Wicca that people practice now doesnt work for shit.

The scientific aspects of Wicca were based in Alchemy, which was also very cool back in the (Midevil) day, but the old discipline was not upheld, much like many metaphysical and paranormal practices.

lol.

Metaphysics is likewise very expensive (can be), takes tons of time, and you have to do stupid rituals (depending on what you do), lets not forget that.

Invocations, smudging, different forms of channeling and mediumship that take preperation, clearings, crystal and candle work, etc.

I put all of those under metaphysical.

I think that many of the rituals can be symbolic, and accomplish the same things as metaphysical ceremonies or meditations. I dont think that all Wicca is bull shit, but I do think that people who dont have metaphysical understanding spend their time on superflous crap, and although they may end in the same result, I find Wicca unproductive and "messy," versus other forms of ancient discipline.

Both are expensive practices, it just depends how deep into it you go. I spend more money on my metaphysical practices than anything else I do.

I do think it's funny that at the end of the spell it says "and forget what happened," I think that if you could just forget what happened you wouldnt have had to go through all that other shit.

Yes, but for instance crystals get mighty spendy...

*

Thats the most absurd thing I've ever heard!!!! That Wicca was derived from Christianity!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHHA

Someone needs to brush up on their history!!!

Wicca/ Paganism is the first known religion to man, Christianity (monotheism) came long after and tried to stamp Paganism out.

In fact, I found that so funny I had to go find whoever said that and make a public spectacle of their stupidity:

"I dont know what you mean by substitutes b/c wicca is a form of christianity dork."

Do we need to define Christianity for you, Nicole?

Christ-ianity: Believing in the doctrines of Christ.

Paganism and Wicca does NOT believe in Christ or subscribe to the doctrines, and is therefore NOT Christian in any way.

Wicca is polytheistic, meaning that they believe in more than one God (and Goddess'). Wiccans woship the nature spirits of the earth, not Jesus. Wiccans dont use the Bible and dont believe in one God, Christianity is a monotheistic religion.

Christianity and Paganism are not only opposite belief systems, but clash to the point that throughout history many have died defending their belief system from being overtaken by the other- especially on the Pagan's side.

Dork.

And when Matt said the "real thing," I sincerely doubt he meant Jesus. He meant metaphysical understanding.

Crystals are actually not only Wiccan, firstly.

Secondly it is important to decipher a New Age belief system from an Occult one, although because of the societal taboos they often get mashed together.

Thirdly, I resent the use of "they" in that post, because quite frankly Matt's and I's belief systems are probably closest oriented out of anyone in this thread, and you were putting me in with Nicole, who I think has proven she knows nothing about actual Wicca or Paganism, let alone New Age.

I dont cast spells, nor do I consider myself Wiccan, so keep your mouth shut about what you dont know.

I actually am more into quantum physics than anything else, and in replacement of "religion," which I find to be an utterly pointless and archaic form of spirituality, I have that metaphysical/ scientific understanding. Wicca and Christianity just dont compare.

Exactly.

well im not gonna read all those posts since over half of them so far are calling Wicca idiotic and naiive in some form or another. I don't necessarily connect Wicca, with WitchCraft. They are two different things, often connected, but still different. I study Wicca, the spiritual, natural religion at the time being. Not the actualy the Craft.
As for it being naiive, i think not. It is an amazingly interesting religion. But unless you actually read up on it, it will be hard to understand it in all its forms.
As for the actualy Craft. I know that I'm not ready spiritually to get into any form of it, but for those who are I don't see how it is idiotic or naiive. Most of the spells i have come across are used upon yourself, to open yourself up to the world around you. Then there are others to "control weather". I basically believe that you can do anything that you wish if you truly beleive deep down in your heart and soul that it is possible. It is all a matter of the mind. If you think you can fly, you probably can. It's a complicated theory, so I won't get into it.
The thing i find most amazing about Wicca, is that it allows you the most freedom of any religion. It allows you to be christian, or catholic, or whatever else there is you wish to be. Although the Craft might not correspond with the catholic or christian religion, the beauty of it is, you dont have to work any magic if you dont want to.
Anyway, i find the entire world of Wicca and Wicca Craft brilliant and inspiring. So i just though i'd share.
~Freak~

One more thought, i just quickly read over a post from Matt and i'm not sure if anyone else has replied to it with the same thing but here goes.

If you actually read books on the Wicca Craft you will see that it doesnt guarentee you to get the love of your dreams, it doesn't force anyone to love you. All it is "does" is open the person's heart to accepting love.
Now i have talked to some people who think that even that is just too stupid to beleive. Well, then at least, after casting said spell, you yourself will have the confidence to approach the other party involved and give it your all.
These spells do not enable you to get lazy and expect everything you want you can get by casting a spell, even openings someone's heart to love does NOT mean that they will come to you full force begging and pleading to you. You have to approach them and SHOW your love to them. And if you don't they could just as easily fall in love with someone else. Personally if i were to cast a "love spell" i'd cast it upon everyone i knew, so that they could all find love, and hopefully find the right person in the process, but if not then at least they had some puppy love for a while. All the work is still up to you, maintaing a relationship is still just as hard. So if you think that Wicca tells us to cast a spell and it will all be over, or better or whatever, im sorry but you are wrong.
~Freak~

maybe i should have read them all before i said anything, that way i wudnt have to make three posts. but here goes, last one.

Alright miss Kaitlyn w/e. make a spectacle of someones "stupidity" all you wish. But that was harsh and silly. She is right. It IS derived from christianity. You must be silly if you think that stating the definition of christianity is stating that Wicca is not derived from it. Derived, as far as i know, means coming from. Just because something comes from another religion does not mean its the same thing, because then obviously it would be called Christianity for christ sakes. Wicca is derived from 2 major religions. Christianity, and the Ancient form of the Pagan religion.
Although i admit saying that its derived from christianity is not a very valid or strong point, being that the fact is still debated by many it is still a fact, so dont make the girl feel stupid over something that is partially true.
~Freak~

Freak: Christianity came AFTER Paganism, and Wicca is a branch of Paganism.

Wicca is polytheistic and a religion in itself, while Christianity is monotheistic and also its own religion. If you practice any form of Paganism, according to Christianity you are going to hell, so I hardly believe that you can successfully practice both and believe both 100%, they are contradictive unto each other.

If ANYTHING Christianity stems from Paganism, because Paganism is the first known religion.

Also, there are many forms of Wicca, and the type you practice may just claim to "open you up" to things and control weather, but many other books, etc. DO make outlandish claims, like everything else, certain aspects of the practice give it a bad name.

The Christians are the ones who burned the witches, you cannot be both, as Christianity has long tried to work against everything Pagan.

In your own adaptive spins of the religions you can be both, but then you are not REALLY Christian and you are not REALLY Pagan.

And could you be anymore middle school? "w/e?"

I saved you some time by googling this for you, so that when you talk about the religion you claim to be, you may actually know some facts about it:

http://www.witchesway.net/links/cvsp/

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Gilchrist/Vol2/9a.html

http://www.bede.org.uk/frazer.htm

http://www.medmalexperts.com/POCM/getting_started_pocm.html

Or google it yourself, and find hundreds of hits about the same topic.

And yes, I have no problem pointing out peoples stupidity, thank you.

haha, i can tell.
~Freak~

Now I know why they have to put the "Do Not Attempt" subtitles on the Jackass show.

MEMORANDUM TO THE IDIOTS:

Seriously. Don’t try to go sit in a portapotty while a crane is pulling it up in the air and then dropping it. Also don’t spray your friends with mace because it looks like fun. Also don’t wrap your head in saran wrap for any odd reason. I also don’t recommend chewing on windowsills with lead paint, etc.

And please, by all means, don’t try to jump off a building because you think you can fly.

And it's not lucky for US that you're not that stupid, you could be the biggest dumb ass on the planet and it wouldn’t affect US any, but it would be fun to push another idiot around the forums for Nobody and JPM. However, I do consider it lucky for YOU... you may live to see a decent age because of that great common sense of yours!!!

Anyway, the concept is metaphysical. Mind over matter. Study quantum physics if you're that interested, because it's hard to explain online, the basic concept is that we have ultimate control over everything when we discover that we do, however, what are perceived as physical limitations in this realm that we are experiencing are keeping us from feeling empowered and discovering the aspect of ourselves that are, in fact, the same creator gods that "Created" this world and Universe.

Matt, sorry, but I dont think you can "heed" respect...

lol, alright then.

Heed as much respect as you wish.

That's the very point.

Welcome to the world of quantum physics.

A mind, yet to be opened to the potentials of the Universe.

Fresh meat, I love it.

eh, Matt? *evil snicker*

lmao,

There are some technical difficulties in your post before last, but I chauk that up to you not wanting to get into it when hardly anyone would recognize the lapse but me ;)

(Matt is not cutting my hair in MY reality, HAHAHA)

It is not physically possible to fly in a physical body constructed of matter as it is percieved. You're correct.

However, if our concsciousness is energy inhabitting a physical body... why could it not be removed? As it is the viewpoint of how we percieve reality, so wherever our consciousness is is what we are experiencing.

We can "fly" in an astral body, an energetic "vehicle" that holds our consciousness (if we so choose to put it there), as much more of the world is energetic than physical matter, and quantum physics defines matter as densely packed energy that's highly concentrated.

But, it's not "impossible" to fly in a physical body. It's impossible because we (as a general and accumulative consciousness) percieve it as such.

Post 69. That's my number.

lol, you're very technical and logical arent you.

Think outside the box- as cheesy as that sounds.

It is impossible depending on how you define "impossible" and "possible," technically, anything is possible.

People used to think that the world was flat, and what we can do on computers today would have been impossible 30 years ago. Flying on a plane was a joke back in the day... be careful how you use the word "impossible."

Very much so, Matt, about 69.

Anyway, the functions of time are linear and infinite on a quantum physical level, each action produces unlimited possibilities, as energy can be converted into anything, however, that aspect can get a bit cloudy and confusing. Best stay out of that part of the rabbit hole. I had a hard time with that ideology for a while, but in the end, does it really matter?

No worries, it's all a bit difficult to comprehend, as the ideologies go against everything we have ever been taught or experienced, but that's the fun of it, eh?

Matt, go to the new Intelligent Chat in the Members Message category. You'll enjoy that one.

And when I get my first conscious OBE, I'm going to visit you :) (I'll fly there), haha.

And it's petit déjeuner, which is actually breakfast. You mean dîner ;)

Awesome, bye :)

I dont think that you want to eat a swimming pool, but have fun, lol.

Anyway, go to my profile, see what I look like and then try it. I'll be looking out for ya! hehe.

If I see you while I'm in the shower though I'll be pissed, and I'll slap you all the way back to your body ;)

But seriously, thought is sooo freaking powerful. I have been able to do some amazing things with thought before.

personally i don't really believe in it....but my aunt is wiccan....some of the stuff is cool i guess....

Matt- Which post are you talking about?

jesus. i'll get into it, i promise. but today's not a good day for Ashley's mind to function and explain what it means. But it's possible! metaphysically, metaphorically, perhaps even physically(physically being one of the major topics Ashley's mind just doesn't want to focus on right now) But I'll post more about it later.
by the way, i was under the impression someone was implying that spells make you lazy, and if i'm wrong..i thought this was a discussion room? can't i make my own point talking to everyone in general? As for my points being everywhere but the actuall major points..well i'm not having a good week, and i'm not an expert on the subject, i know what i know, and i said what i know. i don't pretend to know more than i know...to many know's, oi. Ok anyway, I'll post later.
~Freakin Headache~

"Wicca's" are NOT Christian.

The PAGAN religion was around before Christ ever lived.

YOUR personal belief system may be Christian and Pagan, although you cannot successfully be BOTH because they directly contradict each other and you are going to Hell, where I am sure you would not want to go.

A REAL Christian would never have anything to do with Wicca and a real Wiccan would never be Christian, because the Wiccan religion was invented before people knew what Christ was.

The doctrines of Christ are only open to a certain amount of interpretation. You may omit some Christian beliefs, but then you're not a REAL hardcore Christian, you just call yourself that.

But saying that Wiccans are Christian is utter BULLSHIT. They are no such thing.

You are neither religion, you are your own funky twist, but you know nothing of the history if you didnt know that.

okay, i knoe i promised to get into it and i will, still, but my friend is over, the headache didn't go away and im having a bad week still and im stalling a bit so i can gather my thoughts.
matt- didn't say you were dissing my opinions, just meant that i wasn't talking to anyone in particular when i made that comment you commented on haha.
~Freakin Headache~

A long time ago, someone posted this post in this topic:

"...I dont know what you mean by substitutes b/c wicca is a form of christianity dork."

Nicole, I believe.

Wicca is not a form of Christianity. Christianity blatlantly goes against any form of magic-practicing.

~Ciao Lipton

"...Wiccans do use the bible too..."

Apparently, if they did, they would know what practicing magic did to them, and they wouldn't BE Wiccan.

The Bible blatlantly disagrees with any form of sorcery, or practice thereof.

~Ciao Lipton

"...There is such a thing as christian wicca..."

No, there's not. A Christian believes in the Bible. Obviously, Wiccans don't, or they wouldn't be Wiccan.

"...no it is not a contradiction because ummm.....hold on...i belive that GOD, CHRIST or whatever name you have for HIM is all these other gods people worship..."

It doesn't matter what your opinion is. The fact remains: God condemns the practice, or use of any kind of magic/witchcraft.

"...thats my opinion and y'all dont got to belive that."

Your opinion is blind.

~Ciao Lipton

From the Bible:

"Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are immorality, impurity... SORCERY, enmities, strifes... and things like these, of which I forewarn you just as I have forewarned you that those who practice such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God."

Galatians 5:19-21

~Ciao Lipton

Yeah, Lipton you're not going to get anywhere with her. I even gave her 3 or 4 reference sites and told her to do research and she firmly believes that her opinion changes the basis of the religions and the historical and biblical fact.

She is wrong.

Wicca is not a Christian religion, get over it.

I know. I was just showing her that the Bible specifically condemns it; which means if she continues to believe that the Bible and witchcraft are compatible, then, by definition, she is stupid - having the information, but refusing to acknowledge it.

~Ciao Lipton

lol. You would be correct.

i also beleive wicca is real but when i told my parents they didn seem happy but they got used to it. and i had a friend who ditched me becoz of it but when ya tink bout it she musen of bin a true friend.