Intelligent Chat: Stupidity

nada I am not being sarcastic when I say I think you are smart. Here in the west the term smart is abused
your question was intelligent. The original topic was probably meant to be lighthearted. I feel your frustrastion when an attitude is implied that religuos people are stupid. and they always want to force their veiws on everyone But one can be just as passionate about any code of conduct truth becomes secondary to being right. I don't know if the history of what you don't want to be reminded of is true beacause I was not there. but i don't think you asked a stupid question

"intelligent"
"asked"
"implied"

sorry, I'm kind of crazy
:)

Michael: Don’t you think it's a bit late to clear Galileo? We all know the Church was full of shit NOW (about that), I mean, it's nice that they could admit it but the bottom line is that it's a bit late.

I also didn’t create this discussion to be light hearted or light brained. It had the title "intelligent" for a reason. Any philosophical ideas are fantastic additions to the conversation- so get as deep as you want.

Also, because of my belief system and my understanding of human history I only half agree that religion didn’t throw us back to the Stone Age. I think that there were other occurrences that reverted consciousness to the point of basic archaism compared to the level we were, and I think that religion was a substitute for that understanding. I think religion has hindered progression, but did not revert us per ce. Religion has slowed down science (EX: Galileo), because the more answers science finds the more threatened their very basis is.

And there is a very important reason why religion is relevant (earlier I thought it didn’t need to be a large aspect, but I came to discover it did). Religion is a HUGE source of the things we are taught. Morals, values, basic knowledge and understanding of the Universe, the afterlife, how the world works, why we're here, etc. Religious institutions are even allowed to have their own schools which choose the curriculums.

"Ignorance is the only evil, knowledge is the only enlightenment"

If someone controls your flow of information and CENSORS it, you could be hindered to a constant state of stupid. Naivety and ignorance are bred through institutions and organizations such as these, because they tend to be mind restricting versus mind expanding.

Look at fundamentalist Christians for instance. They believe every word of the bible is absolutely literal and do not believe in seeking knowledge past it's print. Is this stupid? In my opinion it is absolutely stupid. Are people who don’t challenge these mental limits stupid? In my opinion that is the very basis or seed of stupid.

"Stupid is as stupid does."

If someone does something stupid, does that make him or her stupid? I know that seems self explanitory, but seriously why do people say that all the damn time if it's untrue?

And I ask that anyone who cannot debate religious ideals maturely and intellectually without freaking out or getting offended (because we realize we all have different beliefs) not participate any further in this discussion. We don’t learn anything by being closed-minded.

Anyway, I dont think that there is necessarily such a thing as "stupidity," but I do think that there is uneducated and unexperianced. There are obviously differing levels of intellect, but I dont use the word "stupid" to descrbie those. Stupid means more "pointless" to me, intellect is intellect.

Michael: Don’t you think it's a bit late to clear Galileo? I have studied the case of Galileo for many years. I wanted to show that the church authorities were stupid. Having said that I still believe that it was a good thing that the last pope settled this. I know that you and many people do not believe as I do, and I respect that I just want to point out before you feed me to the lions, the Christians could not have had that power if no one believed. Galileo himself was a Catholic as many great men of science were. One of my classmates that I went through eight years of Catholic school with is now in cancer research. I know a lot of religious people who are doctors, lawyers and engineers
I also didn’t create this discussion to be light hearted or light brained. It had the title "intelligent" for a reason. Any philosophical ideas are fantastic additions to the conversation- so get as deep as you want. I think you are very intelligent kaitlin and capable of understanding philosophy. Most of the early philosophers were influenced by religion. And atheism is a religion also..... great discussion

Just to clear things up: I am not athiest at all.

I play devils advocate but my beliefs all come down to being highly traditional, surprisingly from the way I talk about religion and spirituality.

I know this isnt a religious post but I think that there is confusion as to what these words mean for most people:

Agnosticism: The lack of certainty about God, gods, spirituality, or religion. Someone who practices this is unsure or uncertain about God and what their beliefs should be/ are.

Atheism: Denying the existence of God or spirituality.

Deism: The belief and certainty in natural religion, remphasizing morality.

Henotheism: The worship of just one God, while acknowledging that other gods exist (or being open to the possibility).

Pantheism: The belief that everything is God, and that God is in everything and everyone.

Polytheism: The belief in, and worship of, many gods and goddesses, versus a single Creator.

I am deistic, henotheistic, and pantheistic. I am open to any possibility except that God discriminates based upon belief system. Ultimately we all get held to the same standards, regardless of title.

I also dont disbelieve Christ. I do recognize Christ as a deity, which would make me some form of Christian I suppose, but I do not subscribe to his doctrines. I think most of what he taught is basic moral common sense, and we can all agree that living your life by many of his principles isnt a bad thing.

I believe in the use of the Bible as a spiritual tool, but I also believe Moby Dick could be used as a spiritual tool. It's all in the eye of the beholder. A simple object holds the key to all understanding of the Universe. It's all objective perception.

And I play devils advocate often, dear Michael, I too believe that it's good the Pope cleared up that little "misunderstanding," and I realize that lots of very smart people are Catholics.

I wont get any more into religion, because this isnt a thread mainly based upon religion, although they are relevent I just wanted to make my stance clear.

All philosophers are influenced by religion, religion itself was founded on philosophy. That's why I talk about it so much, theology is amazing. I like to challenge people on their belief systems, but ultimately everyone has one aspect of truth as the Universe knows it and the whole truth as they percieve it, so it's all good for me :)

Micheal- You're a beautiful person. I dont want to get all mushy or anything, but you truly are. Stick to what you believe and dont let anyone sway or pick on you. You're perfect just how you are.

God bless you kaitlin you have a wonderful mind I know you are a seeker of the truth and I believe you will find it

That's my hope, and btw, I respect you far too much to ever throw you to the dogs, as you said earlier ;).

Moving away from religion, towards stupidity (or are they the same thing? That's something to ponder *evil grin and snicker*)

Back to topic-

There is:

"Smart" (book smart)

and there is:

"Intelligent" ("street" smart or common sense smart).

I think you it is better to be underestimated than overestimated; thus it is always better to adjust how smart you come off in each individual conversation/ situation and not try your utmost to come off as intellectual as possible. Only exert your highest form of intelligence when it is required, it will gather more respect from others and their expectations of you will always be lower than you are able to meet, thus in the end you will seem smarter and they will be impressed.

What do you think?

I actually agree with Bob, it makes tons of sense that the "stupid" person would act before thinking selfishly, because the more intellectual a person is the more they tend to be "selfish" or "rogue" in my humble opinion.

Not ALL of them, but majority.

I dont think that's to say that intelligent people are not corageous, I think it's to say that they have more common sense and hold themselves in higher worth.

Some people would say common sense is saving the people in the burning building, the humanatarians, but basically it comes down to it not being "smart" to risk your life by going into a burning building.

That being the logic for Bob's reasoning.

I know many will think of me as stupid for wondering, but I wonder if J.P.M. IS AS STUPID AS HE ACTS

Of course, but the more intelligent someone is the more that they tend to value themselves and their lives.

I dont think that saving someone elses life (the baby or the person about to be roasted in the burning building) is a question of morals or values, I think it is a question of courage and intellect (somewhat).

JPM, you are absolutely right. The reason that they recruit young people to die for their countries are because they are rash and wont stop to think. They also tend to be impatient, but look at the actions of fire fighters vs. heroic civilians.

There comes a point where fire fighters wont put themselves in a dangerous situation to save another. If a building is going to combust in 30 seconds and there is a woman 3 stories up, obviously the fire fighter wont save the woman and wont get out alive, so he needs to THINK before acting. Now in some twist of fate the firefighter COULD save the woman, but chances are that both would end up dead.

Who would be more likely to go into the building? An intelligent firefighter or a "stupid" firefighter? A young one or an older one?

You have to be aware of what's at stake, your family's well being, etc.

I also dont think that it is 9 out of 10, I think it's probably closer to 5 out of 6 (that's a blind guess as well though).

J.P. M Seems to have developed an attraction to me. I love you only as I am required to love my neighbor as myself I think it would be better if you kept those fantacies to yourself and stay on topic

Removing the insinuation that grades have something to do with intellect and moving on...

(I was a D & F student, for example)

There are far more people out there than intellectuals, for this reason they are considered to be more valuable, while lives expendable.

Intellectual people do dumb things, and walking into sure death is a dumb thing. That's not to say that I may not do it at some point or that I wouldnt, but that's to say that we all know it's dumb.

Stupid people do things without knowing WHY they do them.

Whenever you hear people getting a rollicking from someone often the first question is "WHY did you do that?"

The answer is almost a uniform "I don't know."

That is the sole reason why stupid people scare me.

Yes, unselfish, coragious, but dumb to say the least.

Not to say it's not heroic or admirable.

Anyway tiger, it's good to see you're alive.

Interesting, interesting. Well said there Ashley.

I suppose all summed up, stupidity is in the eyes of the beholder
(har har har)
sorry.

See, from my point of view, the world is made up of completly idiotic people who know nothing significent to our society therefor do not apply to it and cannot be called anywhere near intelligent themselves. I have looked at plenty of people whom I know inside out and think they are stupid in every aspect. but then again, depends on what your definition of stupidity is.

Mine: a lack of desire, substance, momentum to gain knowledge of our universe (anything significent in it) and appreciation for those who have been momentous aspects in it. Orrr a person who has not the intellectual capacity to do so, or seek deep thought let alone be able to accomplish it. Orrr those who cannot think for themselves.

See others will argue with my own view of what stupidity really is, so for those who's definition is something that can be gained or achieved in all people, then stupidity doesn't exist.
Sadly, in mine, it does

Also, it depends if one is speaking in general, or in comparison.
For example, if someone were to compare an average german soldier to Adolf Hitler (evil and corrupt yes, but you have to admit the man was practically genious) then do you not think that soldier would be considered a moron to be brainwashed an submissive to a both brilliant and lunatic man?
(I know society was also a factor in that but this is just an example)

You all might be able to think of a better comparison but I'm trying to multitask at the moment so give me credit.

Anyway, in some aspects stupidity is indeed real and general. In others, it is an opinion or does not exist.

Stupidity and intellect are relative, and I would go as far as to say that they can be measured only by the disperity between them.

Words are also relative to the connotations that they are associated with for each individual person, as much as Webster levels the playing field, words come down to being garble to people who dont have the same exact definition as you. That's irrelevent. Arguments are more emotionally based than mentally for the most part, especially between "stupid" people ;).

A rose by any other name will still smell as sweet.

And it's all relative. If you thought it was April and it was march, maybe the rest of the world is actually 11 months behind.

Sometimes I think the world works like that.

lol, you live, you learn, then you get *luvs*

Can i lock this stupid thread now?

Kevin, may I ask why you would lock it in the first place? I see no rule breakage or cat fights, so what's the need?

And since when have you gotten so uptight?

I was going to say the same thing as Pink, but then thought your sense of humor may have just gotten a bit darker and less apparent.

I see only Kaitlin has the insight to have read my previous post on this topic where i spoke out against the notion of stupidity, and link it with my calling this thread stupid.

yes is was a joke, well done Kaitlin...another gold star.

Pinkalias and the other chick, black marks for you two....tsk tsk.

GOLD STAR FOR ME!!!

(happy dance)

[I'm REALLY tired and out of it...]

well sorrrry but reading your other recent posts in other forums you could see how I could be confused
(blushes)

Sooo, where was this discussion going again?

I thought the same thing ever when I read that post.

They only started studying his brain AFTER he died, and the only thing they have discovered is that it is SLIGHTLY larger than the average brain, among some other minute and excusable details that have been found to have 0(ZERO) correlation to intellectual ability.

"Brain doctors" are called neurologists.

And I know we dont use all of our brains, I dont need to consult one for that. In fact the statistic I heard was that we only use 6%-10%, not that everyone uses 10% but neurology is not my strong suite.

The statistic about Einstein was BS.

We have no idea how much brain Einstein used compared to us... there's simply no way to contrast them.

So he very well COULD have used 10% of his brain.

What scientists HAVE confirmed is that size seems to have nothing to do with intellectual ability, even though they have been disecting his brain for a long while now.

They really have NO clue as to how the human brain works, JPM is completely correct.

And I didnt misunderstand any "we" in your post, you directly said "Kaitlin."

This could be a touchy subject, but I pose the question:

What does race have to do with intellectual ability? Particularly comparing black, white, and asian races.

"Race doesn't affect the 'ability', but it does affect the actual intelect they may achieve"

Elaborate.

It sounds like you're just trying to stay away from generalizations, but clarify please.

As well, elaborate:

What about Asians and whites, you have successfully alienated the black brain cells, but compare and contrast if you please :)

I'd love more opinions, because I have an article to post on the subject after the question has been discussed thoroughly.

Frances:
oh we are terribly sorry. No really your opinion just matters so much to us, i didnt know that something so brilliant could come out of such an overly inflated head.

I think its just great for you to march in here and insult us all inferring that you are superior to everyone younger then you. And then to top it all off with a shitty quote. Really did you just make that up or did it take you 5 minutes to get it off the internet?

Maybe we should start a discussion about what defines the term "immature" becuase you really have no authority to make such a negative, general statement.

And i guess what you just said about 14 year olds being immature is also saying that we are imcompetent because we are younger. Is that your definiton of stupid?? Someone who is young and inexperienced? really i want to know because your answer really wasnt "Plain and Simple"
Why don't you try explaining yourself, it works really well for me. :)

You contradicted yourself, because you also are taking part in this discussion about people, so does that mean that you also have a small mind??

thats what i thought.

I would also like to hear an explanation of your quote what evidence do you have that supports these statements? They are pretty general so it would be great to try and understand whats going on in that overly inflated head of yours.
:) SUPER!
~cate

As immature as our P&Q family can be, one benefit from hanging around here is that you learn how to:

1. Formulate a complete sentence.
2. Learn to spell
3. Learn to use correct grammar, and
4. Learn (unless you're a hopeless cause) how to not be a dip shit acting out of total idiocy.

For instance:

"I may be new here but I have found in chat and a few other areas that most folks that are online the same time I am are 14 year olds or young adults who are very immature. I have an answer that is plain and simple."

Does anyone know what that means? I mean, really? Hopefully if you hang out with some immature young adults for a while they can teach you English. I had to read that like 5 times before I understood it, it's like the run on sentence from hell. I dont even know if it breaks any rules, but it should. Learn to use punctuation marks, please.

Good stuff then.

The kids who hang out in the chat rooms are utter dipshits, I would stick to the boards if you are seeking any time of semi intelligent conversation.

That's not to say that there arent dipshits on the boards too.

I know plenty of people with the burning desire to be smart and to overcome mental afflictions and they simply cannot, so I disagree that what makes a person smart is the "desire" to be smart.

Some people are simply NOT smart, and will never BE smart. They can work to be smartER than what they would have been, had they not "practised" being smart, but I disagree that you can create Einstein's brain out of stale play dough.

I dont mean to be harsh, I think very few people have brains of stale play dough.