Intelligent Chat - rap ruining rock and roll

I will always prefer rock over rap. But since i have plans to become a musician, i've learned to respect every genre and listen to them as well. Music should be free in every meaning known and unknown, so is there an exception to freedom of collaboration as well as inspiration to do new things?

//Ari\\

oh i totally agree, i think some rap, especially early 90s is ok, but now theyre everywhere. theyre ruining music! my god im so sick of it. i only watch mtv2 on saturday nights cuz they have rock countdown and headbangers ball on but anyother time the airwaves are full of the shit. its so annoying

I think a lot of music now days suck.

i agree completely. rap is trying to take over the whole music industry and rap music is just another type of music, everyone has their own type of music they are in too but they can at least come up with more of there own stuff. for instance, ive heard some rap that was a rock n roll song made over...into rap. thats just not right lol rock n roll will always live and in my opinion thats the only good music playing these days.

just because you can't appreciate it for what it isn't doesnt mean its not brilliant...

It isn't that rap is ruining rock, music is ruining itself by the sma epeople, no matter talented or not, settling for bullshit music that sounds the same and can be put forth with no effort. I am going to state this, and those who wish to cuss me out go ahead. We can blame Jay-Z, Nelly, Gwen Stefani, all American Idol, Backstreet Boys, 98 Degrees, Nickelback, AltarBridge, Creed, My Chemical Romance, Simple PLan, and the list goes on and on. The point is when there is an abundance of something the talent drops, but when there is a drought in a certain area, the talent rises to teh top and pours through. People aren't trying to be different, to experiment, they want to be the same, cause that is what makes money, Perfect example is Maroon 5. They can do some cool stuff, but they don't. They settle for that pop sound. In rap people settle for a synthesized beat that my little my 5 year old brother could make, and when a person comes out with lyrics like I love you like a fat kid loves cake people think it is great. That could possibly be the worst line in all of rap history. Music is ruining itself by becoming an overcrowding market, populated with attention seekers and money makers. The music industry needs to be left to true musicians, those who experiment and do new things all the time, striving to be the best and better than they were, different than others.

kxpx, just to let you know, Rage Against the Machine ripped off Kashmir as well in their song Wake Up. The song is still good, but that isn't the point. R. Kelly stole a Steve Miller band song and made a huge hit in I Believe I can Fly, despite the fact that it isn't nearly as good as the original, and Tupac's Changes comes from a classic rock song and is still awesome.

And Britt, you should realize that people listen to what is fed to them. All those listen to teh radio, and the radio plays what the music industry pays and asks them to play. So in the long run people are listening to what the industry wants them. So the influence is more than we imagine. People like the music that is played because they hear it, and it is only played because that is what the industry wants the people to hear and like.

You have entirely missed my point. I am not singling out any kind of music as bad, I simply said that all genres have bad musicians. In todays world we happen to listen to those mainly bad musicians. It isn't one kind of music ruining the other, it is the industry ruining itself. People don't determine what is popular, the industry tells people what is popular by having the radio play those songs, and then the people like it because they are hear on the radio that it is popular.

Rap isn't ruining anything, it's just a different type of music, if you don't like it, you don't listen to it. It's up to you what type of music you listen to therefore you can't judge others by what they like.
xxx cici xxx

Rap and rock are two different genres. I love some of both of then. I even like some put together. Not all rap is good, not all rock is good. Its all Person prefrence.

let me rephrase the music is ruining itself. The industry is ruining music, how about that.

Those who can't do, become critics. Which is why simon is the man, and cause he is funny.

I know simon produced, but he couldn't sing, My comment was toward the nritney spears singing for 15 years remark you made. This has been a fun post. You are a fun man to argue with JPM.

i agree with you. I guess I wrote it because I felt like it. But I must say this about music, like writing it is a free-for-all in that anybody can make it. However, also like writing their are rules that should be followed to make damn good music. Those rules are different than writing, us as writers and poets have grammatical rules, but musicians have rules about their scales and the way they put notes together. Their are certain things good guitarists do because it is the proper thing to do, while young guitarists don't because they don't know to yet. The way notes are written in order and beats are mixed have a good and bad according to certain rules that apply. Some poeple follow those rules and some don't. Some that don't still sound very good, but most who don't do not have extrmely good music, which has nothing to do with lyrics or their singing. And those who do usually have very good music, but not always. Hey I love Nirvana, but that doesn't mean Cobain could sing real well. He is the king of rasp.

If I knew what the specefics were I would tell you. I only know the generalizations cause that is all musicians have ever talked to me about. I only know there are rules, not what they are. If I could know some I would love to. I would have to ask some friends of mine, but until then I am in the dark about specefic musical rules.

But I also know despite how talented you have anywhere in life you are always replaceable. The same goes in the music industry. Many people we hear know-a-days are just faces with sound. They could all be replaced in an instant. This is a generalization, cause to go forth and name all the people who we all think are and are not would take to long, and i have better stuff to do. Like get my ass kicked in video games by a 5 year old with bell's palsy.

what, have it locked, that is crap. Not rap that you claim to be crap. You started a post that has been fun and very entertaining. If you take offence to it then you need to not post on this anymore and just read. I, and I don't think JPM takes offence to what other people say. Who cares, it is a conversation about music, it isn't going to improve my state of living, or yours. So if he says fuck you, let him say fuck you. If he says Fuck me let him say fuck me. It isn't that big a deal. This post has been great, don't have it locked so soon. And if someone bashes your opinion, oh well. You will leanr that opinions change in life depending on how you are looking at things from your new standpoint. But don't ruin it for us who are having fun.

I don't think it is all about the flashy shit at all. JPM has no flashy shit, just look at his picture.

I must say again though: don't lock the thread, for the last time. And JPM, one thing we have all missed in this discussion about who listens to what, and if you don't like it make your own, or listen to crazy experimental perfectionists, well, I don't want to get to into it, but by bringing the conversation there you bring into account teh social class of certain peopel. Not everybody has the ability to buy or make their own music. As for the radio, and what music is mostly played, listened to, and TV the most: that is easy. It is country. CMt is on with music videos just about 24/7. They play more music than either mtv, mtv2 or any vh1 station put together. They also have a billion radio stations. Don't ask me why, but a huge amount of the population love country, and they just do their own thing. They don't care what people think. Also, classical. Classical is probably the most widely listened to music ever anywhere. If you don't believe me visit all the old folks homes across the country and tell me if you ever hear anything different. Not to mention all their kids who are becoming old, and then after that there is JPM's generation that is getting old, then mine, and then yours . Classical will never die. Atleast not as long as we have the elderly and NPR. So if we complain about anything we should complain about the elderly. Darn those folks.

no not at all

hahahah, yes it is. That is why i mentioned it. Ironic. But I still maintain that one of teh reasons people like the music is because they are told it is good either by friends or the radio or society in general. And I agree with the message thing.

Shank, you strike me as a man who listens to three dog night and traffic. Is it that kind of oldies, or more of a Nat King Cole, Platters, the Delfonics, and Brother's Johnson oldies

Rock was the majority of music? That depends what decade...or shall I say, century, you speak of. Go back to the Middle Ages where the Catholic Church, for the most part, dominated and dictated the realm of Western music. Here music was once monophonic chants: no harmony, no fixed meter or rhythm, as polyphony, [more than one note at once,] was considered evil and sensual by the Church. lol.

Anyways, it is quite ironic you say rap is ruining rock. If you observe rock’s influences and rap’s influences, it all stems from the African American culture. Way back to the Africans and their coming to America as slaves. The slaves would sing about their horrible life as they worked. One characteristic of their music is something known as call and response. You would have someone call out a verse, and then the other slaves would repeat. Sound familar? It should, as you can find this same, repetitious call and response technique in, wow, look at this--Gwen Stefani’s song ‘ain’t no hollar back girl’...and that is just one of thousands of songs [including ton of rap] influenced by African song traits. Rhythm was a huge tribute to African music as well, as they were all about dancing and drums...and even when they weren’t allowed to have drums on slave farms, they still danced and slapped their bodies in polyrhymthmic galore. You also have to consider the slave’s church music where they sang out in melacholy bluesy tones. This led to gospel music which led to blues music. Now in the south, [especially the mississippi delta area,] the blues music was more sullen and country like. However, the African Americans during the WWI started to migrate to the Chicago area, even moreso in hoards during WWII, and they brought their blues music with them. Up north, the blues became more urbanized, as well as became electrified as the black musicians realized an acoustic wasn’t going to get them heard like an electric guitar through an amp would. [Excellent examples of this would be the music of Muddy Waters and the Howling Wolf.] So blues evolved into a more rhythm and blues...but with the appearance of Little Richard and Chuck Berry, rhythm and blues transformed into what was the basis of rock and roll...and so forth.....the point of all this? I could go on ..but this is how music has evolved into various forms and generes throughout history.... and more than just stating that it's an art form...musical styles developed and reflected what was going on at that moment in time of America. slaves->sang about their woes, the melancholy blues musicians to folk artists-> reflected civil rights movements, even today, you have rage against the machine getting politically involved as did public enemy about inequality.

Saying that music sucks today is a meatless statement. It has no reason or backbone to support it. You guys say that rock and roll or the oldies is the only good thing anymore. But guess what, when rock and roll was being birthed during Little Richie’s time, the old crooners had a HUGE problem with it. they liked their old music, which was considered good, and rock was considered disgusting. Frank Sinatra, himself, said that rock was horrible and his ‘misfortune to hear.’ So music, i guess, good or bad is going to be in the ears of the beholder.

[also kxpx---if you are going to complain artists are ripping off Led Zepplin, well... Led Zeppelin ripped off of Howling Wolf’s “how many more years” with “how many more times”. And half of the African American blues/rock artists in the 40’s and 50’s were ripped off by white cover artists, like charles boone. Even Elvis, the sucess that he was, can not be without ripping off African American artists.]

And JustPlainMe. It doesn’t matter if you know how to edit in protools, calibrate an atr, route signal to tape, or do a midi dump into digital performer. It is a blessing to have such knowledge and record music of your own. But this doesn’t mean anything, nor does it give you special status, nor does it make you a music god. No one wants to listen to a-know-it-all. It is unfortunate that arrogance taints much of the music world.

One more thing, I don’t care if you know all about how to distinguish a late baroque period piece from an early romantic piece or even how to distinguish the different movements of a symphony. Classical music is amazing, I agree, I love every aspect of it. Unfortunately it goes unappreciated because it is so complex that dumbed down minds of society can’t comprehend it. That is why I find it pointless to drag up the great composers in a conversation like this because many people can't relate. If anyting, bringing it up makes you look like you're a pompous prick.

"oh, and bob i believe the only worrd of profanity that i used without it being an example was the word ass...
and ass shouldnt be considered a swear..."

It's all about context, kxpx.

//Ari\\

Also...you speak of respect yet you preach of how one genre of music is "ruining" another. Hmmmm...doesn't sound so respectful to me.

//Ari\\

HAHAAH, Bob I love the delfonics. Don't have any of their music anymore, it got wiped when my hard drive got erased by a little 5 year old computer hacking (not really, more of messing around), internet video game junkie

JustPlainMe: I'm glad that you have some background knowledge in music, it is always appreciated in a debate like this. But I'm beginning to wonder if this is more about you being right and proving others wrong, rather than perhaps nicely educating what others are obviously lacking/misinformed about. Instead of posting some fresh meat to support your opinion [because you are obviously smart to an extent and well educated as you tell us], you keep rehashing all the stupid comments people have made when we've gotten the point that you think a majority posting in this thread are stupid jerks. You are beating a dead horse and the debate is going in circles. And it's getting to the point that now I'm reading posts from various people about who's violating rules and how dumb people are... Yeah, there are a lot of ignorant statements made in this thread, you and I both know that, but it seems you are letting them get to you. Droping the F bomb like it was WWIII certainly doesn't make me respect your opinions on this topic. Personally I've gone through this whole thread, and it seems like you really haven't contributed anything of depth. Instead, a majority of your words are hurled insults and comparisons of your intelligence and qualifications, which in reality, no one really gives a jim. You're telling kxpx to move on, but it'd be nice if you did too so this discussion can go somewhere cool.

I'd cry tears if you did that lol.

freedom of choice is what is right. personally, i'm with bob, i like oldies R&B. but i'd be a pompous ass if i believed that all other music sucked and my kind of music was the only kind that was relevant and worth a crap, all based on ignorance of any thing but my own little world and what is in it.

straight up, i didnt even bother reading any of the posts except the first.

rap=bad.
((my opinion of course))

but stuff such as::
AC/DC, Stone temple pilots, porcupine tree, reo speedwagon, van halen, the bravery, the breeders..
or even more modern such as::
brand new disaster, we are lions, waking ashland, fall out boy, bright eyes, aerosmith, the yeah yeah yeah's, rancid, hawthorne heights...i mean anything....
there is such a wide selection...why ruin it with...rap.
gangSTERS. hustlERS. sex money. sex and more money.
its all stupid. dumb dumb dumb.

so yeah, thats me.
idont know.
dont get mad, its just my opinion.
kthanks

i'm pretty sure that i wouldnt have said anything if i werent a human.

laura:

i have to agree with JPM on this one. how in the world can you expect someone to read what you have to say if you aren't willing to read what they have to say????!!!?????????? quite selfish. when you talk on the phone, do you just say what you have to say and then hang up?? discussion cannot exist if you are going to make it a one-way thing.

you know there is a saying that goes something like 'there is a reason why we have two ears and only one mouth!' and i have to agree....

well again..i have to say:i

'd be a pompous ass if i believed that all other music sucked and my kind of music was the only kind that was relevant and worth a crap, all based on ignorance of any thing but my own little world and what is in it.

come on, for real...stop perpatrating(?)...how shallow can you be?