A Question of Ethics and Morals.

Knowing myself, I would help. I couldn't watch and live with myself.

I am with Bill. I would have to at least try to help him.
Strange thing, about a week ago a drunk man did fall on the tracks here & got killed by a train.

No one was there to help him though.
Sad.

I have put myself in harms way for less (than a human life). Funny thing, when you try and live an honorable life, you are left with having to do the honorable thing. I could never watch or walk away from someone in need.

I agree with Bill and Tammy. I could not turn my back and just walk away even if it meant my life also....I couldln't live with myself knowing I did nothing... that would haunt me the rest of my days...

As a side note: Since when does being drunk make you scum? I have been drunk before and consider myself a productive and honorable member of society.

Bill-
I was wondering that myself.
Lord knows I used to have my wild days...LOL

Most of us have...don't judge me by who I was, judge me for who I am.

There is a slow train coming and we are all on the tracks

So true.....

Nice to see that being drunk automatically makes you scum. But I'd do what ever I could. If the train was coming I'd get out of harms way. First rule of the army medic: don't become a casualty yourself.

I do not think I would consider anything other than a human needed help
Every human person is created in the image and likeness of God, and has an inviolable dignity, value, and worth., therefore both the most wounded victim and, the most callous criminal, retain their humanity. They both possess a dignity, value, and worth that must be recognized, promoted, safeguarded, and defended

I would have to help. And I am wondering since when does getting drunk make you a scum. I like to get drunk every now and again for no reason. Does that mean I am scum?

--Sher

ISMAIL why would you say "society's scum"....? I think that sucks! I've been drunk before and I am FAR from being "society's scum" and I surely hope someone would help me if I were intoxicated and fell...I would help him!

I do not think drinking makes you scum....if it does, then I will have lots of company...

The good man is he who does nothing, argues Jainism. One could never know if saving that one person could be a homicidal maniac, for instance. Natural law operates in its own manner, saving those who are destined to be saved, and viceversa. For these reasons, I would probably abstain from saving such a person. Though it is true that, morally, it is bad, but then again, that drunkard would die for some purpose, nay? It is all too complex to explain morally or even religiously.

I bet if it was your MOTHER on those rail road tracks you wouldn't just sit back and watch.

Well, Ismail did suggest it was some random person. I tell you, it is too complex to provide an answer. Morally, I would probably want to save him/her, but practically, not. Plus, why would my MOTHER be there?!

I have saved the lives of convicted murderers and rapists....not out of some higher calling, but because it went with the job. My place is not to judge others or to be judged....my place is to live an honorable life and try to do the right thing. Judging people belongs to another...it is not my job, nor do I want it. I only want to live a good life and make someones day, every day. I cannot dwell on the persons actions or past when action is called for....I cannot ask for a societal resume of good and bad...I can only act on what is before me...a human being in need. In so doing, should I need assistance, I can only hope that it will come. I know that it has in the past. I had my life saved by a convicted felon, who kept three others from killing me. Did my actions in the past drive his actions? I don't know...nor do I want to.

It is all a Natural Law. That is what I want to believe, but I no longer know what to believe.

The Spheres gyre in such unknown fashion to bring upon us truths hidden.

I'd have to save him

Of course I'd save myself...lol.
No but seriously, I would do all I could to save them. It's just my nature.

I would definately help him because arent we all a little part of societys scum and if not
I make up for you all
lol
I'd die for another
~emma~

I think I would, I'm confident where I would end up If I did die and i've risked my life to save a horses life a few times, granted my horse is my best friend and It was my fault she ended up in harms way but yea, If I was in the situation I would definatly try and get the guy out

Ismail people drink all the time. I've gone out on several weekends and drank like there was no tomorrow....that doesn't mean I was trying to escape reality or kill myself nor does that make me a bad person. I was just out having a good time. Drunk people take the train home too. If you won't put your life in danger for someone who had a few drinks how the hell can you for someone who didn't. All your answers are completely ignorant.

Ismail-
I would have to strongly disagree with you on this one. Just because a person is an alcoholic today doesn't mean they are going to be forever. They CAN be delivered from alcoholism and lead VERY productive lives. My husband was an alcolohic. He got drunk ( and I DO mean drunk) almost every day. Finally when I couldn't take any more of it, I moved out- left him. While I was gone, he began to seek The Lord for help in this matter. God delivered him and he hasn't drank in 5 years.
I imagine some people could have looked at him back then & assumed he wasn't worth anything... but they would never say that about him now.
Just because a person is addicted to something doesn't make their life worthless. A lot of these people WANT help...they WANT to quit...they just don't know where to get help. Sometimes it is hard for them to get help because a lot of people look down on them & don't think they are worth their time to help. I have found that sometimes they just need someone to care...to make them care...to see that they don't HAVE to live this way. I have worked with quite a few homeless men, most of which were alcoholics. I have found if you just show them a little love...it goes a long way in helping them.
You know God loves an alcoholic, or a drug addict...or whatever their addiction or problem may be, just as much as he loves you & I. So, I figure, if God's gonna love them, so am I.

I would have to check his pockets first,
Just cause he is drunk and looks like a
scumbag doesnt mean he is.
So I take his money and jewelry and
then throw him back on the tracks. NOT!!!

Life is precious and there is hope for any
person that is down and out. If they want
help or not, life is a miracle and death I
think is not. Life is hard to start and to
survive were death can be made easy as
..looks around.. leaving him on the tracks

I know we're not talking about me but it's not moral to assume every person who is drunk is scum. It's not ethical to pick and choose whos life is more important. You would be scum if you let your fellow man suffer.

It is not my job to weigh upon whose life is more valuable, only to do what I can, each day, to make the world a better place. For me, watching or walking away would not make "my world" a better place, as I could not live with myself for doing nothing. For me, helping is the only thing I could do. Once again, that is MY CHOICE. Everyone is different and I cannot judge others for thier inaction. Not my job to pass judgement. That job belongs to someone else thankfully.

First of all Ismail, say whatever you feel like saying because I am not easily offended. You don't have to hold anything back for my sake. So, feel free to state your opinion openly.
Also, I don't believe God is the ONLY way to be set free from anything. There are all kinds of places to get help. I was just trying to say these people DO have hope. I was only presenting an example of this.

"quite frankly the world today is beginning to ridicule more and more about God's existance."
This is very true Ismail. However, at the same time, a huge amount of people are beginning to seek God also.

A side note to Sunny: I don't believe anyone here is arguing about this. We ARE stating our opinions.

I don’t think we are arguing either. I respect ismail’s convictions. But I don’t believe it is moral or ethical for anyone to judge a human being for their condition. I do not give any weight to people who ridicule God. I also believe that the most effective treatment of alcoholism is a spiritual program

Many Americans will have heard of Ira Hayes, the Pima Indian who with his five mates in the Marine Corps raised the United States flag on Mount Suribachi on the island of Iwo Jima. He was in the photograph, now world-famous, taken by Joe Rosenthal. But Ira Hayes died of acute alcoholism in a cotton field on the Pima reservation on a night in January 1955.

Sunny-
Ismail is free to believe what he wants. I respect his beliefs, but was only stating that I do not believe the same as he & stated why I don't believe that way.
I don't consider that arguing.
I believe every human life IS worth saving. There is hope for everyone, no matter what the situation.

I believe strongly that if it were moral and ethical, as it seemed to be, by the ‘Law of Moses’ to stone anyone in need of forgiveness there would be no innocent children to protect. I would like to place emphasis on how most poets classify forgiveness as divine
While researching my ancestry it was easy for me to see that I came from a long line of Catholics whiskey distillers, and school teachers. Forgiveness seems to be the most powerful medicine in the world, yet not accepted by all

I subscribe to the fact that God forgives...I do not. In order to forgive, I must first pass judgement on the act or actions and determine whether it is worthy of forgiveness. It is not my job to pass judgement. I will leave the whole judgement thing to him. Therefore, I do not forgive. Hey, it isn't my thing...

"And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

I believe when one accepts the AUTHOR of the above quote one recieves the power to forgive, whether it be others or ourself.

I seek no forgiveness, except from the lord and grant none. Ask no quarter, give no quarter.

I feel the desire to share a story. I look back on it with a sense of humor
One time around Christmas I remember my father taking two of my sisters and I to some railroad tracks where he knew that there would be some cedar trees suitable for Christmas trees. My father was extremely intoxicated that day and we probably would not have gone with him if we were not in dire need of a Christmas tree. He cut two trees and one of my sisters and I started back to the clearing where we had entered the tracks that were densely covered in thorns and briars. I had just asked my sister what would we do if a train came down the tracks because the woods were so thick there was barely room for the train, and none for us. Then the unthinkable happened. We heard the unmistakable sound of a train horn. We ran down the tracks until we found a place were we managed to push through the briars and we were safe. My sister was screaming the Hail Mary as loud as she could. I was praying with her that my then drunk father had stayed close to my other sister. The Lord takes care of fools and drunks most of the time

Bob, believe me, I understand first hand the pain that is caused by such people.
But does that make their lives worthless?

That's a whole new subject but I want to answer. My grandmother is an alcholic and always has been. She drinks a case or better of beer a day along with her vodka. She has since my mother was a child. She still managed to raise a nice family and keep healthy relationships. She is in her 60's now, she works, and she is still part of all of her children's lives. For her own reasons she gets drunk everyday...but she still lives a productive life and I don't feel as though I am or anyone else for that matter is better than she is. My sister's father in law is also an alcholic...he owns his own business and works daily. He's loved by his son and grandchildren but drinks A LOT. I'm not saying it's right because I hate it with everything in me but not every alcholic is useless "scum"

I am going to take the liberty to quote a literary figure, whom spent his early years defending an extremely hedonistic culture
1 Corinthians1; 28-29, God chose the lowly and despised of the world, those who count for nothing, to reduce to nothing those who are something so that no human being might boast before God

I agree...and I also believe that God is the only one to help you to absolutely get rid of a destructive habit like that. Don't get me wrong..I am not perfect...far from it, but if he can help me fix my life, and fix my morals/ethics. Then I think he can help anyone.