Debate about religion

It's not belief in God, but belief in something. Theology is the key.

Religion is very, VERY good for two things;

1: peace of mind.

2: lawful order.

I think that religion has its place in life for everyone but it doesn't necessarily have to be an arganised one.

Even those who are atheist have the belief and total faith in the ideal that there is no God, which is as much a theological viewpoint as going to church, mosque or not eating pork.

It's not what you believe it's how you go about believing it.

Religion: An organization created to control the masses. Unifying most pagan religions under one banner, one tribute. These religions were forced with death and destruction at one time. Now it's done in a more civilized way. Extortion. :/

People are making a lot of generalizations about religion based on a few of them, namely the big monotheistic ones. There are many religions, some of which advocate a moderate, calm, and peaceful way of life.

"Religion is man made, it creates segregation, propaganda, and is more responsible for the spread of hatred and racism then anything else known to man"
^^
SOME religions create segregation, and spread hatred and racism. Others fiercely advocate the similarities between all people and all things.

I don't think religion is bad. I think some religions have lost touch with some of their original messages, and that other religions never had much of a good original message to begin with. Some religions being a negative experience doesn't mean that they all are. Making generalizations about that sort of thing is as much a folly as being a thoughtless zealot.

I think the reason why religion can be considered a 'lawmaking' force is that we had existed in a state of nature (as Hobbes would say), prior to the formation of governments and law-making bodies. Religion, and the belief in either karma, or divine punishment, or divine rewards, was one of the first impetus for developing an organized society where the fear of retribution halted some of the more dangerous human actions, aka rape, murder, theft, etc.

But you see, that is where our opinion differs. You say it is a con to manipulate people. I disagree. I think the subtle manipulation of people to keep them from the worst excesses of their nature is a necessary aspect of society in general, and that ability to do so stemmed originally from religion. If you really feel that the ability to manipulate people is a con, do you feel that all laws within modern societies are cons, and that all punishments are arbitrary?

From the beginning of time. When Neanderthal and Sluvious walked the earth. People have always looked to "one" person as their leader. At first it was the strongest, Then it passed on to the smartest... but how did the smartest keep the strongest from taking over?

Simple. Create gods, and tell everyone that "he" was chosen to lead. This became very useful, especially when the leader or leaders wanted to control the masses. Believe or be punished.

Why did the masses accept this system?
The same reason they accepted the leader in the first place. Protection, organization, and order.

Everyone focused on:
One light
One belief
One law
One society
One culture
One tradition

An evil necessity of control

How great would the world be if In the Beginning, there was naught but Sluvious?

I'm not sure if I understand why that wouldn't be considered a religion.

I notice that most of the posts here concentrate on the negative aspects of religion and not the positive aspects.

Nuovo: Being a muslim did not work for you because it was a 1 year trial. Faith is not about trynig something on, it's about total conviction it works or it does not. You need the faith to dedicate yourself to any focussed way of life, some have it, some don't. You are either a Christian, Jew, Hindu etc. or not, simple as that. You'll disagree with me here but I accept that.

People die all the time, most of all by way of mosquito bites, but war is not necessarily a bad thing. The one thing that is threating the world right now is over-population, warring nations and nomdic tendancies have always helped the situation but no more. And religion is not so much to do with religion as it does posession.

World wars one and two had nothing to do with religion (except the holocaust) Britian France, Poland, Germany, Romania, Greece, Italy and every other country in Europe are Christian. Hitler was Christian but WW2 was about economics and territory, nothing more.

WW1 caused WW2 and that was about territory, again posession.

Religion may be an excuse but the people behind wars ALWAYS have a hidden agenda.

Right is only right from your own point of view. Remember that. It may sound corny but you'll never read more true a statement.

Holy wars were little different back in the middle ages. Wars in the name of god were still about money... that and us English were good at fighting and run out of decent enemies in Europe and needed to expand the trade routes they already had.

You'll never see an athiest cult because you cannot have a cult or religion based on nothingness, that would be tantamount to nihilism or existentialism and does not work in a group environment.... then again emos aren't too far from the mark there.

Every church I have been to has focussed souly on life, fun and living life right by the people around you. Not once have I heard a sermon that focussed on how I'm going to pay for my sins or anything else that was negative.

I'll stand by my statement that it is not what you believe but how you believe it. Not one of the major organised religions, the subject of this debate, promotes genocide or massacre. Splinter groups may advocate holy wars(crusades), terrorist campaigns (IRA) fatwas or jihads(Islamic fundamentalism), but never the mainstream.

Pagan worship is attributed to any unknown religion that is not one of the big four (Christianity, Judaeism, Islam and Hinduism). Soddom and Gomorrah is a prime example. Also the Sun worship, Nature worship, the Greek, Roman and Norse gods are all examples of paganism.

Great debate.

I suggest you read and ask yourself questions rather than get into what is bound to be a heated debate with others about their personal choice of religious belief. Come to your own conclusions and on your own merits as any one who has ventured around these forums knows that all religious debates end up ugly...peace and good luck with your soul searching.

PS: To the person above me please name fundamentalist terrorism groups outside of Islamic relgion...gees its a bit rough there are and always have been terrorists in all races, creeds and relgions I just noticed you cared to mention two both Islamic...

However Bret I do agree with a majority of what else you have stated ;o)

Eirisa

he mentioned the IRA...

Nice site, Slu.

'Risa I did mention the IRA which is about as fundamental and religious as it gets.

This is about the first time I've seen a debate on religion here has gone relatively smoothly, good show.

Yeah, I'm actually pretty proud of this one...

Religion will always be a controversial subject, and no matter how you look at it, we always will have different positive or negative opinions on it, depending on our circumstances

I think religion in my viewpoint is basically a figurehead and scapegoat to who and what we put our faith and belief in.

Nothing more, Nothing less…

I think religion can be harmful or positive. Both Great Awakenings were inspired by religious ideas, and during each GREAT leaps in education, culture, science, and equality were made. However, after a few hundred years religion has turned into just another reason to kill one another. I think if you feel comforted by religion, it's a good thing. But being forced into it or forcing others is bad.

Thanks for pointing that out Bret ;o) I must have skimmed over it - my apologies.

And Sluvy thanks for your defence...

As for the original starter of the thread who thinks my opinion is less valid than the rest, you my dear are a hypocrit, you said this was open and not for argument then you go and say silly things like that, I stand by my original post, do your own research and come to your own conclusions and on your own merits...! LMAO ;o)

It depends on how you follow your religion. True religious people follow the ten commendments and won't come up with an excuse to go around it. True people are still open minded to different opinions.

But like one of my poems said, religions are constantly abused nowadays. I some people who goes to church and youth every week but still to bad stuff at school. they don't deserve to call themselves a christian. That's one the reasons why I stopped going to church cause I couldn't stand those people.

And priests who use religion for sexual purpose is also wrong.

But in the light, some good people i know use their religion as hope, determination and so on. They are also very optimistic.

I don't think religion is exactly a bad thing, but the people who practice it often twist religion into something utterly personal and so the true, honest purpose of the actual belief is lost entirely.

Religion can not be labeled "good" or "bad", because true religion needs true belief and faith, and every person on earth has a different sense of conviction. Religion is good if you practice it as it is supposed to be, but religion is bad if you are just an athiest looking in.

My Grandad is a rock solid atheist, but he enjoys reading the bible and taking the morals from it.

He also says it's a great little story book that has been badly written and often taken out of context.

Being an athiest doesn't mean the death of religious intent. Moral fibre is something that is religion free but all the rules are logged in all major religious texts, nothing stops anyone from learning from them.

i am a proud christian and anyone intrested in learning more about my practice , please let me know..

Oooh you guys edited my post I know it was crude, but technically I didnt actually swear...ohhhhh *tail in between legs*

What?

"Presume then God not to scan, the proper study of mankind is man"

Alexander Pope.

And I really couldn't agree more. I feel religion was a necessary part of our poorly educated history..it was needed to smooth the workings of society, and of course advocated by the powers that be as a means of social control.

But it can also be a beautiful thing and contain within it all the best qualities of humanity. I still think that now, in this time...we have enough organised thought control to go around...and religion really needs to either evolve or lie down.

Funny that no one has mentioned that the spiritualist movent is just as human made as anything organised...I mean Reiki was created by a guy, as was Yoga and any spiritual practice you care to mention...in fact every believe we have is made by us to serve a purpose.

What we need to ask ourselves is, based on the state of the world, which beliefs, be they religious or otherwise, actually serve to improve our collective situation.

I signed my religion as Jedi on the last census...; )

I'm a Christian, I Believe What I Believe, You Can Believe What You Want To Believe, I Can't Change You And No Amount Of Debate Would Ever Change Me...So Why Have One In The First Place.... *Please Stop Arguing About Religous Views* xoxo-Nikki-xoxo

....Nikki, we aren't arguing about any specific religious views, we're debating religion in general. If you don't want to participate, then feel free to not read this thread.

I remember the cencus in the '96 or early '97 and I logged as a Jedi, hoping for it be counted as an official religion. I believe you need a thousand followers for a cult to become a religion.

I have noticed that no one has mentioned Hinduism. I think that as far as organised religion goes Hinduism is the best. You're born a Hindu or you aren't. If you're good enough in this life you'll be born one in the next. That's a philosophy no one can argue with.