9-11 Self Inflicted Wound?

i have seen a couple documenteries that were rather disturbing and point out several points how there is more to the story then we know.
first off, the twin towers went strait down like a building would if it wree blown up with dynamite. how were the buildings around it not affected. they say the steel melted but that steel doesnt melt until like 3000 degrees and fire can only reach about 2500.

also billions of dollars in gold were shipped out right before the plane crash.

fire fighters reported to hearing explosives while they were inside the building.

The flight that landed in Penn. had to remains, no plane, not even a drop of blood.

the pentagon had a hole where supposably a plan hit it but the hole wasnt even big enough for the wings to get through yet the plane somehow went completely through the building and came out the other end.

one last thought, the owner of the twiin towers got his buildings insured shortly before the crashes for over 2 billion dollars

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I think this is a lil too fresh and controversial...

It's like the Kennedy assasination all over again.

This kind of thing happens all the time. In Edinburgh where I live, we had a huge fire a year ago that destroyed some nightclubs and some old flats that were empty.

Strangely, the night of the fire, all the homeless people who usually slept in the flats were moved on an hour before the fire, which had never happened before, and nightclub was closed due to some unknown technical issues and there were roadworks all around the area but no clear sign or work or a need for it.

I spoke to a fireman about it and he said the whole thing was very suspect. He said that it's common knowledge that property developers wanted the land for high end market flats, but because almost all of edinburgh is historic scotland, they couldn't touch it...and shazam..a fire, expertly contained, knocks out all the old buildings, killing no one and damaging nothing that wasn't in use. The police and housing departments must have had a hand in this, if it was a fix.

Coicedence, I'll let you decide.

Conspiracy theories only have weight because they have no fact to support them. When something cannot be explained thoroughly it only adds to the weight.

Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Cannot Stand Up To The Facts

This book has been written by the writers of Popular Mechanics (a magazine here in the States), has a forward by John McCain and will set you straight on a lot of stuff.

It's out now so I dare you to look at bvoth sides of the story and study this book by real mechanics aswell well as the conspiracy theories written by lonely overweight losers who live in their parents basements.

By the way... 2500 degrees is enough to make steel lose structural stability and bend, causinf stress fractures. Add that to the fact that one floor was bearing the weight of the six above it AND A PASSENGER AIRLINER and you might think that that may be just enough to pop a few bolts.

Stop trying to be technical and use some common sense.

so what about the explosions in the basement, 2 people heard explosions in the basement, a janitor and a fireman, what does that have to do with the crash several floors up

Interesting thread. Thanks for starting it.

the loud bang you speak so higly of would most likely be apart of a the cause and affect. above there was one floor bearing the weight of like 7 others and a plane. the metal would've likely snapped and bent the noise travelled all the way to the bottom of the building. where the pressure had no where to go because it hit the ground, thus a loud bang.
In my opinion from what i have read and gather by both sides is that U.S. Government planned this to happen but! they did not plan how it would be done. they paid Bin ladden to attack the trade centres. They never caught him because why would you want to catch your bissness partner?

But ya thats my opinion.
cheerio

Brett is so right. If you want to judge this thing judge it by common sense, and common sense only. It is the only way to go for both sides. Common sense says that, nobody knows what would happen if a plane hit a sky scraper like that because it has never happened before. Also common sense says that the fires didn't reach 2500 degrees. Common sense also says there is no way in the world the planes shouldn't have been stopped. Another thing common sense says is that after the world trade center thing we had every right going into afghanistan. Anyways if you would like my common sense explanations for my common sense insights, let me know and I will be sure to explain more.

i am not saying that i am 100 percent correct. the reason i started this topic is because its a very popular topic where i live right now i just wanted to hear some insight

I have never before seen such a load of baloney
All the so called facts that you state in your opening statement are completely untrue and full of hearsay evidence

wake up America and look at the facts not conjecture
Peace
John

Personally, I think the government tried to cover up what really happened.

The Pentagon had a hole smaller than what the plane damage would've been, the fire from the remaining fuel would've burned for days, There is no video or photo's of this occurence, and yet the Pentagon is covered from head-to-toe with security cammeras, interesting how the safest place in the country or at least one of them has no security video's of this event. there was no plane or plane peices at the scene of the pentagon, so why'd they say there was? where did that plane go? does someone still have it? or is it the government that is trying to hide something? The excact spot at where the so called plane hit the pentagon, they where doing renevations(for quiet a while). Interesting how the wood wasn't even blackened by the smoke or fire damage if there was any...

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

Joe, I highly recommend the second link in regards to your question about the pentagon.

I did some homework about the steel thing:

Steel melts at 1525° C, and although jet fuel burns only at 825° C, it doesn't have to burn hot enough to melt to cause the buildings to collapse, since steel loses 50% of its strength at 648°C.

Also as for ground explosions:

If it wasn't a generator (as is widely believed) it still does not explain how the towers fell down from the top, and not from the bottom as would have been the case in a controlled detonation.

Any other 9/11 conspiracies that need debunking?

wow that is some bull crap I aint sure what happened but we might have another world war/civil war thing-ma-gig it is just kind of weird

My opinion is it was a cover up, they needed an excuse to invade Iraq for oil so they made one.
I've seen all the same evidence that the first post mentioned.
I have a video of the Pentagon crash of then the plane hit.
If you freeze frame it, it's the same shape, colour and size of an american missle. Even if it's not a missle, it's not a bloody plane. No plane is THAT small =/
Well thats mine and quite a few others opinions anyway.
Peace

(On a last parting note, who's killed more Iraqi's so far?)

For building seven go to the loosechange guide link, it's there. Did you even read that link, Azyu?

Though buying the debunking 9/11 book by popular mechanics book will explain more than that will, and unlike both loose change and the loose change guide the book is written by engineers and scientists, not people who live in their parent's basement.

Yep, but you didn't answer my question. Did you read the loose change guide? It's a researched and reasoned, if at times slightly sarcastic, counter point to alomost everything that loose change kid has to say.

But it seems you have made your mind up already.

Listen to 'Bin Laden' by Immortal Technique, Mos Def and Eminem

Where there is controversy there will always be conspiracy (sp?).

Who knows what is truly true...

I was using lose change as a counter point because someone here backed it to the hilt on another thread that I cannot find. It just surprises me that people will go out of their way to think that a missile hit the pentagon. If so how did the government get rid of the pilots and passengers from the flight that actually hit it (don't forget the hundreds of eye witnesses to the event http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html )? Did the secret service get the plane diverted then kill everyone on board?

Maybe they diverted the flight and paid off everyone, made them leave their families behind, gave them new identites and set them up on an island in the Carribean.

I put it to you, my skeptical friends, to think seriously about the logistics of this. Do you really think that people were killed in secrecy and buried before their families to make things appear to be something else? It's the same thing with that absurd 'missile with holographic plane image hitting the twin towers' conspiracy. There were lives, some very famous lives (Producers of Frasier, for example), that just can't be covered up and disappeared.

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`Sec. 948c. Persons subject to military commissions

`Any alien unlawful enemy combatant is subject to trial by military commission under this chapter.

`Sec. 948d. Jurisdiction of military commissions

`(a) Jurisdiction- A military commission under this chapter shall have jurisdiction to try any offense made punishable by this chapter or the law of war when committed by an alien unlawful enemy combatant before, on, or after September 11, 2001.

`(b) Lawful Enemy Combatants- Military commissions under this chapter shall not have jurisdiction over lawful enemy combatants. Lawful enemy combatants who violate the law of war are subject to chapter 47 of this title. Courts-martial established under that chapter shall have jurisdiction to try a lawful enemy combatant for any offense made punishable under this chapter.

`(c) Determination of Unlawful Enemy Combatant Status Dispositive- A finding, whether before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense that a person is an unlawful enemy combatant is dispositive for purposes of jurisdiction for trial by military commission under this chapter.

`(d) Punishments- A military commission under this chapter may, under such limitations as the Secretary of Defense may prescribe, adjudge any punishment not forbidden by this chapter, including the penalty of death when authorized under this chapter or the law of war.

I fail to see why the trying of enemy combatants under military law, ie. the treating of terrorists like lawful military combatants dismembers the constitution. As they are not US citizens they are not beholden to US law either. That is unless you believe people that that use arms and explosives against troops and civilians who do not fight under a flag or standard should be tried in a civilian court or not at all.

This bill makes sense.

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There is already a national id card, it's called the driving license. My mother in law doesn't have a driving license so she has a photo id instead. Old news.

The only difference is that democrats are still fighting to prevent proper id use and therefore fair voting at the polling booths. Go Georgia.

I have no idea what they did with the people, but a plane that size couldn't have hit the pentagon and left an impact so small. It's impossible, a plane would never have been able to fit through that bloody hole.
I don't know who did it but if thier sick enough to explode two buildings of people, their sick enough to divert and crash a plane.
However, i'm not forcing you to agree with my opinion am i? You have your own
Peace

the goverment is hiding something i have family that works for them and the bombs that are sent to iraq are basically being built in my backyard its called Crane Naval Base located in southern indiana you guys have no idea how much the goverment is into and what they have done alot of its horrifying you wont believe some of the stuff they do....my aunt wont tell me much because of confidentiality neither will my uncle or brother n law but history repeats itself
peace and love

Gemma, I'd advise to look at the loosechange guide and look at the pictures of the wreckage og, oh noes! a passenger airliner.
In fact I'll post a link to those pictures for you. Just a google search brings up thumb nails where you can clearly see pieces of a LARGE aircraft.

http://images.google.com/images?q=pentagon+wreckage&btnG=Search&svnum=50&hl=en&lr=&newwindow=1&safe=off

So wait... you're saying the blew up an aircraft previously, then shot a missile at the pentagon.. then within a matter of minutes they scattered the wreckage about with ANY of the news crews and camera men seeing them do it?

I'm not forcing you to see common sense, just advising it.

oh my god not one of those stupid Conspiracy theories again. look we all know what happened that day. planes were flown into the twin towers, the pentagon, and the open field. besides steel can lose stability at 2500 degrees. and the "explosions" the fire fighters heard were probably fire balls being sent out of the towers where a plane had hit.

look 9-11 was a horrible tragedy lord knows everyone was affected by it, but seriously stop trying to blame the Governmet for someone elses wrong doing. it was a terroist group, just leave it at that. and stop trying to find a different answer to something that everyone already knows the answer to.

People in the government, are bastards and liers.. and thats that.

Listen to 'Bin Laden' by Immortal Technique, Mos Def, Eminem and Jadakiss.