Commas and full stops?

Hi everyone :-)

I'dTakeABulletForYou (Stephen) and myself are curious about whether it's necessary to have a comma or a full stop at the end of each line in a poem?

I feel that each new line lends itself to a natural pause and therefore doesn't necessarily warrant a comma or a full stop, and Stephen has self-confessed punctuation OCD, and likes to see a comma or a full stop at the end of each line :-)

We're not talking about commas or semi-colons etc. within a line, where it's needed to express a pause, just 'end of line' commas or full stops.

Neither one of us is saying we think we're right, but we're genuinely curious about what you all think?

Is poetry open to a bit of 'poetic licence' when it comes to this, or should we try to follow the same rules we'd expect of good written literature?

Kitty =^.^=

I agree with your perspective, each line usually is a thought and tends to have a natural pause. Modernist poetry has been more lax regarding full-stops and commas, Ezra Pound an important figure in the movement has often wrote without fullstops & commas at the end of each line.

I think it comes down to whether you like victorian/romanticism literature or modernist literature. :)

I'm not into following any particular movement of poetry. I attempt to make each line a separate thought leading into the next line as a progression.
As for the rules of grammar, I tend to follow what the nuns forced on us in elementary (I still have my 1963 edition of Harbrace's Handbook of English). However, to the dismay of all those gentle old ladies rolling in their graves, I use commas or natural pauses where I believe they have the most good. I will deliberately place a comma in inappropriate spots at times to force a pause before the end or to force a carryover to the next line, again, as the case determines.

I have to be honest, when writing in rhyme and especially sonnets, I always use punctuation - I don't see them working without it. Free verse is entirely different and its very nature is more fluid often, so punctuation isn't necessary here. I suppose, ultimately, it just depends on what feels right for any given piece. As long as our thoughts and meanings are not lost because of a lack of it, then I don't believe it's ever strictly necessary.

This is really interesting so far! I did do a little research and it's a minefield!

I think certainly 'ye olde' poetry and that style seems to lend itself to such punctuation.

I look forward to hearing more :-)

=^.^=

I appreciate all the insight! I think it's a case of "you can't make everyone happy so you might as well make yourself happy." I honestly try to compensate for a bit of a learning curve by honing in on spelling and grammar to an obsessive degree. (One exception and an example of my learning curve, I still can't grasp the concept of "affect" and "effect".) So those aspects in poetry are a bit highlighted to me, and without them I freak out cause I don't know what to do! Lol

I feel that punctuation isn't that important, I do use it how it reflects my poetry, sometimes not much at all.

What I believe I that we are all free in our expression when we write, and in most cases a reader will take their own perspective, using theirs pauses and stopping, as and how they read a piece.

And poetry bears no rules rights or wrongs. Just the beauty of writing with emotion and feeling :)

Much love
Michael x

I think the first thing for me is that it's entirely down to the author. Like Miss kitty I'm predominantly a rhymer and as such I think they are often best without, but not always.

I will and won't use punctuation depending on the particular piece (and my mood if I'm honest). Rhymes can often flow much better without punctuation especially if the lines are short.

I tried my latest piece with punctuation and it didn't look right, kinda too crowded for such a simple thing, if that makes any sense.

If it's a longer piece, like Larry I will insert punctuation where it shouldn't necessarily be in order to either force a pause or to draw attention to a particular word or group of words.

When it comes to non rhyming poetry I think punctuation is necessary more often than not. In this instance, I think is a very important tool to set scene and mood.

For example

If the eggshells upon which we tread finally crumbled to dust would you still love me

If the eggshells upon which we tread finally crumbled to dust, would you still love me?

The difference between the two is minimal but to me it reads completely different.

Ultimately I think it all comes down to personal preference.

Regards all

Craig

I like Craig's example and I do agree in free verse, which I am a fan of, punctuation is really of more use than rhymed pieces since the flow is affected by it. A fellow poet once told me he loved my poem so much because of the presence of a comma in one particular line.

My opinion is that in free verse pauses should be emphasized to appreciate the piece. But we can do this without really the use of a comma or a semi-colon.

Stephen - 'affect' is a verb whereas 'effect' is a noun.

I left school 36 years ago and have to admit to being completely rusty at punctuation. Ive also been told that punctuation has changed since i was at school. I don't have the energy or inclination to start checking whether or not what I learnt at school is still true.

(In addition my phone's predictatext keeps taking over my phone and keeps sneakily changing words and adding unwanted apostrophes) :)

I Love writing poetry but it can be complex and tiring enough for me without having to worry about if my punctuation conforms to literary expectations.

Having said that I'm with Larry. I place commas where I want people to take a breath where I feel it is most appropriate and full stops - im with kitty I don't feel they are necessary in poetry because the end of a thought is self explainatory

I think there are so many thoughts on this. You are never going to make everyone happy so I think people should just do what makes them happy and write to the best of their abilities.
Best wishes Milly x

Let's eat grandma.
Let's eat, grandma.

I know you've seen that one

The tears that affect him
are effective ploys that
mask her cruel affect
and effects her duplicity.

There we are, Stephen, Larry actually gave you a helpful example, lol

Great comments everyone! :-)
Kitty =^.^=