Let's Have an Intelligent Chat, Shall we?

I want to know who on this site knows what a facist warmonger is. That still irks me that someone didn't, no WONDER America is the way it is.

Why Annie, what a brilliant Idea!!

I'll bite... what's (or perhaps who's) a fascist warmonger?

ya-i'm uneducated also...what is this???

I completely agree with the above statement, he is entirely a warmonger, but he is not a dictator....he's doesn't have the sense to run a country in that fashion.....

Kalika

Sadam has no right to torcher people...

OMG. That does NOT mean I am in support of the war people... please

dont

hurt

me

im'on hide.

Amreicans, Mexicans, Indians and Filippinos weren't staring down the launch tube of biological and chemical weapons.

Remember 1990 when the nerve agent scud launches killed thousands in Kurdish Iraq? Well, probably not, but every bugger in Iraq does.

Has America proven that we are not worthy of the trust that goes along with these weapons?

That answer is debateable, but among the international community we are trusted for not generally bombing the crap out of anything that moves to take over the world.

The world NEEDS America, and they like to complain and moan about us, but the bottom line is that America is the #1 hyper power in the world, so we can bear the burden of everything, but all these countries trust us to spare them in the end, regardless of if Bush is in power or its someone else.

None of us would have wanted to live in Iraq, and we wouldnt have traded places with them and offered them to take over our lives. Something had to be done, would it have been best if the UN had assisted or even headlined the war without putting America in that position. Did we have vested interest in what we did? Of course, its called POLITICS, and its ugly, but everything has its pro's and its con's.

I am in no way the typical American,

And what I said is not nearly as patriotic as it is fact.

Ask France and the other European nations, they want our power stopped and put in check, and no one really can or is willing to do so at this point.

I think everyone is biased because everyone comes from their own government and has been raised in that environment. What I know is that everyone deserves to live in a democracy, although people may say it is not the best form of government it is better than communism. The people of Iraq deserve the same possibilities as Americans do, or any other person, no matter the race, no matter the country.

Do I support the war? I support it because I really have no choice, we are there already.

Do I wish that we wouldnt have gone? I certainly wish that we had done it more gracefully and that we had the UN's support. Just because we have the weight to throw around doesnt mean its right to do it and draw this much attention to ourselves, not to mention the money and the lives that it is costing.

Crap Ashley...

The USA IS the #1 Hyper power that's not even worthy of an argument.

You dont have to be an American to know that,

In fact I think that it is probably much more apparent if you DONT live in America.

Americans tend to be very sheltered and unaware of what is going on in the world, mainly because America runs it.

Fact, not patriotism

Better *grins*

Thats somwhat along the lines of what happened, but its not done yet.

Its not as simple as it seems really to reorganize a country with that much disfunction and special interest.

lol, something like that...

But we should take into consideration that it looks like things are about to get alot worse and go alot farther WRONG than in the right direction. I hate to predict stuff like that, but we all know what it looks like...

I think the answer to that lies in your poetry, Bob. ;)

As to America... we've accomplished some incredible things in our comparatively brief existence. We've also perpetuated our share of attrocities in that time. That's quite human.

But I'm not sure that we can idly enforce our will on the world--our morés, customs, commercialism, and conceptualizations of freedom--and get anything positive out of it. Yes, certain things have been accomplished that way. But such forcing of change has never proven itself to stand the test of time. Likewise, such forced change is never as lasting when there are obvious hypocrisies attached to it (as there are in what we've endeavored to install in Iraq and Afghanistan).

Only when peoples brought themselves into a new philosophy (political, theological, etc.) and approach to life did those peoples actually adhere to them permanently.

Is the US the most powerful single country economically and militarily? Yes.

Do we have the raw power to go about doing our will regardless of how the rest of the world feels about our actions? Absolutely not. Sooner or later it will come back to bite us.

We live in a world where it is imperative to begin working with each other and moving forward in union, not exascerbating the rather old conflicts and separations that have drawn peoples apart.

Whether it was wise to go into Afghanistan and Iraq or not, how the US did go in will be causing ripples of violence and hatred for generations to come because in the end it was allowed to be a new Crusade. And our children and children's children will be facing those ripples in their lives.

May they have enough wisdom to heal and raise up their fellow humans (in their own nations and without) where we have failed to let go of our own violence, greed, and fears.

Now it's here... the intelligent conversation.

But what to do about the questions, condundrums and enigmas that fall our way? We know that we can't please all the people all the time, it is a phrase said on such a regular basis that I doubt anyone on this forum has not heard of it.

So bearing that in mind, when we're not in the pleased bracket, why do we complain and moan about it? We know we can't always be happy and not every decision is going to go our way, yet we get complaining, harping and all sorts of other ways to protest in one form or another.

I think that sadly it again comes down to the respect component I was talking about yesterday. I still blame the post war baby boom and resulting free love.

What say you?

If people want to die for other peoples freedom I support it, a draft I do not support, nor do I support a back door draft (which is going on), however I have no control over it.

America is well intentioned, I do believe that, of course there are political reasons behind our actions, it would be naieve of us to not pay attention to them, however the people running our government are people WE HAVE PUT INTO POWER directly or indirectly.

Freedom is not free, and America has bettered many peoples lives, however those lives are a trade in for all the young men and women we have lost.

Young men are tricked into putting a uniform on and murdering each other, while the old men talk about how many of their armys souls are worth their principles and ego's; but its how the world works. And us Americans in our cushy existances need to remove our perceptions from our sheltered asses and look at the good America has done, not just the bad. We have done both, and there are two sides to sit on every issue, however I would say that most of the world is ungrateful for what we have done and take our help for granted, because we would help pretty much any nation that called us forward, and they would not show us the same courtesy. Its pop politics, and its easiest to hate the one whos on top.

They are tricked into killing themselves- was what I said.

Tricked by society

Tricked by uncle Sam

Tricked by stupidity being hard wired into their genes

I didnt specify.

Wow, Donald... did you really say "women don't understand..... women are baby makers"?

I guess I'm just so out of my league in this conversation. I obviously can't debate such eloquence and wisdom.

The hostility.....

But seriously, being a woman I was insulted by the comment, considering I would think my brain is actually more worthy of attention than my womb, however I chauked it up to you being a redneck farm boy, and damn, I was right!

Sorry. I'll back off.

Which is admirable, and I agree with you. I am a fence sitter obviously, both sides have fantastic points.

But the farm boy red necks will also be the first to die...

I love what this started!!!

Conversley I'm a typical lower-middle class kid who signed up without a war going on (other than the farce that still is Northern Ireland) knowing that there will always be more wars to come.

For every Red-neck that runs forward there is a proverbial college boy running right beside him.

I think it is in the genes to some extent, though there is a level of honour (that and a good pay-cheque) required to turn the warrior instinct into a soldier's one.

Woman is destined to inheirit the earth... but then woman will realise the mistake when they find out they have no one but themselves to order about. What will happen then?

Women running the planet

I have nightmares about that stuff, knock it off.

i don't like Bush, i don't think he's a divtatot but god he's already going on about more wars i mean come one! And i don't see why britain went in and followed even tho the majority didn't want to.
Saying that i understand saddam was a dictator but he was not arrested for the charge we all went in for, so it annoys me so anyway, hus next lol

Women could run the planet fine but we'll have to lock up all victims of PMS so that nukes arent launched for the wrong reasons.

Not meaning to turn serious again, but I just have to say this:

Donald, I love this country. We are such an incredible, wonderful country that has done and still does so much good.

But part of that love is acknowledging rationally where we don't always live up to what we're supposed to believe in... what our constitution and subsequently added articles are supposed to represent in terms of fair dealing, honesty, justice, and democracy.

If we stop questioning what we do and why we do it, then we've lost the spirit of analysis, action, and patriotism that spurred this nation into creation. I'd hate to see that happen.

And yes, of course we're under attack. But I'd rather use Special Ops any day than engage in a war several thousand miles away committing a steady presence of 150,000+ of our men and women, and sapping hundreds of billions of dollars from our economy when money for everything from health care, education, veteran's benefits, and social security are being absolutely gutted to pay for tax cuts (that are negligible or non-existent for most people I know) and a huge military campaign.

Do we have to stay there and see it done right now that it's been started? Absolutely! Now THAT is very American to finish something well once it's been started.

But it hasn't been wrapping up well at all for a variety of reasons (not all of them thanks to the opposition, either), first and foremost that our reasons for going in where highly flimsy to begin with. That erodes the honor of what our flag represents to both Americans and the world in general.

Likewise, it betrays a compact with the brave men and women who go into the armed services... that compact says we shall not commit them to battle and death without true and good reason... we shall not cause them to shed their blood, maim their bodies, or kill them for spurious, spin-doctored causes and corporate aggrandizement.

We are role-model for the world... you can't be as powerful as we are and not be. The problem is... what are we role-modeling at present? It's quite a mixed message at the moment. Mixed messages are never taken as seriously, or the messages are chosen by the audience instead of the messenger.

Damn, I love this country. But I absolutely refuse to look at it through rose-tinted lenses. You either look at it as it is--good, bad, and so-so--or you live a lie. And I'm unwilling to do that.

That said, and with all sincerity, I must add have a wonderful Presidents Day for those of you in the United States.

Oh... and Donald, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with your style of expression... just was shocked at the "women for birthing" comment. My apologies for being snide.

After reading your comments, I went to see your poetry, and admittedly based on your comments had a certain perception of what I'd find. I freely admit here that I was unfair in those expectations.

Your poetry is warm, pensive, and wise... well-written and poignant. I wish I had more slots for favorites (someone out there listening? More slots!!!), because frankly I'd add you.

Just goes to show that you should never assume something about someone.

Its refreshing to actually have someone appologize for rudeness, it comes to be a way of life on these forums much of the time. I'd like to add my apology.

Anyway this countrys accomplishments and good deeds get overshadowed, and its sad that people cannot take the bad with the good, because you can never make everyone happy.

Happy presidents day everyone.

Well most of the people with valid points dont use teen speak lol

However "fascist warmonger" isnt teen speak, they are actual words with actual meanings, if thats what you mean.

Not being funny, but is 'Republican' being randomly replaced with 'Fascist' or is it just me?

Kaitlin, you know how much I respect your view, but that is something I think you should be keeping in check. I think all of us unintentionally don the rose coloured glasses from time to time, but when we take them off we have to leave the expressions behind with them.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Just to give you an idea of fascism and neo-liberalism click on the Analysis link and see the difference between a true fascist like Hitler and George Dubya.

Oh, take the test, too it's rather revealing.

I'm closer to Hitler than Blair... freaky!

But also closer to Thatcher... I'm a true child of the system.. bless me iron Maggie *grins*

I never labeled anyone as a fascist warmongral. But thats what this topic started out about. I dont think anyone is fascist and I wont call anyone a warmongral because I dont know nearly the amount of details (IE secret intelligence, etc.) to say that we were justified or not justified for going to war.

I am not relating the words fascist and republican either.

I believe that the people of Iraq needed help, and when it comes to politics, there is so much going on that we know nothing about that I think people are talking out of their asses. I dont like talking out of my ass, I prefer to use my lips, therefor I only talk political fact and not assumption, however the line is blurry these days, so I pretty much stay out of that aspect.

Hippy

Woah, sorry K, ol' Bert mis-reading crap again. Still, it lead me to the political compass thing, so it's not all bad I guess.

That was cool, here are my results:

Your political compass: Liberatarian Left, but very close to the middle of all of them (0,0).

Economic Left/Right: -1.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.00

I am closest to Ghandi, the Dalai Lama, and Nelson Mandella lol.

I'm big on authority and supporting businesses (especillay my dad's).

Can't remember my score but I was + on both.. more on authority though.

I am big on supporting the economy and business, my father is a self made entrepaneur, but I am bigger on humanity. I am not democrat or republican, I am a fence sitter because the balance is so important.

And its no problem Bret, misunderstandings happen lol

Too right he is so is his lap dog Tony Blair.
Michael Howard could be one to. They're both racists as well.