When a newbie makes mistakes

Hi to all. I've been a member only 2 weeks or so.
I've received several votes/comments and I've entered quite a few, but one member has complained (by PM) that I've "downrated" their work (plus an insulting remark on my character - and since she doesn't know me and has never voted for anything I've done, I don't see the reasoning behind all that).
The point is, if a newbie makes a mistake (if I made any at all, as she's not bothered to reply to my explanations), PLEASE allow for the fact that it may be an error, so don't attack the newbie for a what may well have been a polite, friendly and supportive vote/comment on your poem. Thanks.

Nano, he is new, be nice, sweetie :D

Nano, I'm sorry to butt in, I just happen to know him before this misunderstanding occured.

Also, I dont think he gave your poem 1 out of 5 points, it says 4.7 out of 3 votes, and if you calculate it, it would be, 5 + 5 + 4 :D

Why was this even brought to the main boards? Sounds like something that should be handled in PM.

Nano, as Myryn has mentioned, if you do the calculations, he would've voted a 4 which would give you the correct average of your rating at the moment. I honestly don't think rayre words meant anything by 'downvoting' at all, in fact, he gave you a 4 if I'm not mistaken, I highly doubt that would be considered a down vote.

Anyways, like Courageous Dreamer mentioned, why was this brought to the main boards when it could've easily been taken care of via the PM system?

But then again, rayre words is new here, so let's cut him a little slack and say hey, this is what you do for next time. Nobody is perfect, everyone learns a thing or two when they are new. Hell, I know myself and all of the other members here didn't know 'everything' about the site when they first joined.

So without further ado, welcome to the site rayre words. Hope you are enjoying it so far. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me and ask. :)

Have a great day and enjoy the weather.

Peace,
Joe

Votes don't matter. They really, truly don't. Voting a four does not mean someone is jealous. Maybe they didn't LOVE your poem. So they voted it a 4 because they liked it. Big friggin deal.

Honestly I think this has been blown way out of proportion. Votes -shouldn't- be important, because people are just blowing smoke up your ass anyway.

Look at my poems, even the crappy ones I wrote out of frustration, without caring. You think they all deserve tons of 5's? Of course not. I'm not a brilliant writer. I don't deserve all those 5's. The system is flawed, as many of PnQ is anyway. If you let votes seriously get to you, then you're just setting yourself up for a let down.

The OP is new so I think he truly didn't know where else to post this. In regards to the matter at hand I'll let a quote do all the talking.

"To have ego means to believe in your own strength. And to also be open to other people's views. It is to be open, not closed. So, yes, my ego is big, but it's also very small in some areas. My ego is responsible for my doing what I do - bad or good."
Barbra Streisand

Poetess I think you're being 'closed' in this situation. If someone says something is Amazing it may not mean they think it is 5 material. I rarely think any poems on here are. If you feel someone is down voting by giving you a 4 you have a lot to learn in this life.

Learn from it and grow, isn't that what you're always saying? You want to learn? While he may not have given you anything to fix. He may not know what exactly needs to be fixed. That's the crutch of being a critique of others works. Sometimes we measure things to how we write, to us it's fantastic because well it's better than what we're able to produce. But we know from reading other poetry that something is missing, but can't fully and logically express what that 'something' is. With that I think it's ok to give a 4 and not have to worry about getting PM's from people such as yourself. I really think that was wrong of you to do.

What I don't think you really had the right to do is going to this guy and badgering him as to why he gave you a low vote. (which actually isn't a low vote at all) Do you really message anyone who gives you a low vote? Which you'd have to do by seeing how many comments you get then ask people what they gave you. That to me is wrong, and deters people from wanting to commentévote on your poems.

Also if you are private messaging new users wouldn't that actually be considered promoting your own work by saying "I'll look at your poems." almost inadvertently saying "come look at mine.". Unless you mean of course that you are greeting them on the forums and not by PM. If that's the case please Omit this last paragraph.

All in all pull those big girl panties up.

I don't see how anyone was lying to you?

I once complained about votes when I was a new member, when I thought they meant something. Someone came in and voted 2's on ALL of my poems to prove a point...that they are useless. It made a lot of sense to me.

"Sometimes we measure things to how we write, to us it's fantastic because well it's better than what we're able to produce. But we know from reading other poetry that something is missing, but can't fully and logically express what that 'something' is."

That is absolute brilliance right there. I 100% agree.

You didn't read whose posts?

She probably said she's not bothering to read the posts. Childish if you ask me as there's some good lessons to learn in what has been said. Back to the quote I put up there. When someones ego is bruised they often only see it one way and remain close minded to anyone else who has something genuine to offer. To her it's an attack, when it's only meant to be a discussion.

I'll let you keep going on just to prove my point darlin. I'm defending him because you're being childish. You're throwing a hissy fit over someone voting a 4. Oh no the world is going to end now. Instead of just moving on with your life you choose to keep digging at it.

I asked if you were PMing other members as you said in one of your posts. You message new members all the time. I'll find the exact quote so you don't start moaning about me paraphrasing. "Myryn I am nice, every new member I behold, I PM them telling that I am ready to check read and comment their work anytime, you can ask lots of members over here, such like "mohamed", "goob"...etc."

I'm not the only one who has taken note of it. Many have gently tried to essentially tell you "It's not a big deal.".

So you can try to change the topic about me trying to pick on you specifically. Or you can for once actually read what is being said. Your choice, but I think I already know how you're going to respond.

Edit: Hun, you can try to play with the big girls. But not until you pull those panties up of yours. You can try to talk to me however you like. Sweetie if you think for one second your words bother me or hurt me, you have another thing coming. Ask anyone on here, Bob, Sherry, Britt, Nor. No little girl will bother me one bit. Especially an irrational, stubborn and impossible to reason with person such as yourself. If you truly want to get better as a poet, your attitude will surely get in your way of ever improving. Take everything as a lesson in life. Don't try to attack, try to reason and UNDERSTAND.

Let us all play nice and be respectful.

Hey are you calling me a little girl?! I'm taller than you, ya know lol.

Nano if you're done with the thread, a good idea wouldn't be to come back with a useless post.. it doesn't really prove anything.

I did NOT PM him, I commented under his comment "then why dd you downrate it? lol" that is what I wrote, I have the right to do so, you are not the one who decides.

^^I think rayre words wont mind this, but he has sent me this pm

"rayre words at 2011-06-01

I recently voted for a poem by "The Poetess", but she's PM me and complained that I "downrated" her poem. I did not intend to do this. She also accuses me of being "Jealous" (????) I've sent a reply explaining my intentions were good, etc. Since I'm fairly new here, I wondered if you knew "The Poetess" at all? Do you have suggestions? Thank you. Ray"

^ Now that IS interesting. Thanks Myryn.

Also concluding that someone is jealous because they voted a poem a 4. Yep my point has been proven.

What I gather from the OP is that he is seriously upset by the response he got after voting, what he thought, fairly. I can imagine a person new at this reading "good"and thinking, yes, that sounds like a fair number, I will make it a four, that leaves room for improvement. I can give that same person a five when he/ she becomes even better. I don't think a newby is aware of how the voting system sometimes is abused on here to push certain new poems off the front pages...maybe you scared this poor boy half to death, Poetess;0) I don't think he is jealous..could be wrong, but I don't think so...

Hmmm ...

Well I read the whole thread and I can't really understand why everyone seem somewhat outraged ...

Of course down rating a poem or uprating a poem is something of extreme insignificance to me .. and it should be to anybody ... it does not say whether if you are good or bad ... really .. So Nano you ally shouldn't care that much ...

However looking at what you guys are saying .. this is not an ego problem .. it became more of an ego problem after you pushed it a little ... the girl meant why as in .. what is missing in a poem that would make someone down rate it .. I think if you see something wrong with a poem and you decided to give it a fair 3 ... then it is as fair to place a comment stating why you gave it a 3 ....

So this why question I think is justified

^ I'll quote something I said in my first post that could help explain why sometimes people can't really state 'why'. Which I think is perfectly logical.

"While he may not have given you anything to fix. He may not know what exactly needs to be fixed. That's the crutch of being a critique of others works. Sometimes we measure things to how we write, to us it's fantastic because well it's better than what we're able to produce. But we know from reading other poetry that something is missing, but can't fully and logically express what that 'something' is. "

""maybe you scared this poor boy half to death, Poetess;0)"
^^
if this is true, then I am glad I did."

^If that's true then you really don't belong here... Why? because that's just a piss poor thing to say. Being glad about causing a member of this community to leave. Because you couldn't stomach the fact that he gave you a 4? That truly makes you glad?

"secondly, I did not pm him."

If that's true then how did you 'ask' him why he gave you what he did? Let me remind you of what you said in your first post. Which shows that you DID contact him about this matter.
"^^^I insulted you? huh. you downrated my poem and I asked why did you do that..."
I'm not one to nit pick, but when you're going out of your way to deny what you said you did in the first post. I will call you out on it.

This has really blown up in the last few hours, hasn't it?
Nano, I think it says "good" next to the four, doesn't it?
Honestly, I rate people with a four all the time, even when I think it's a truly wonderful poem. Five gets left alone most of the time because poets should always be striving to be better... always reaching for the five star poem...
This is my guess (for sure I don't know if this is true), but if I wrote something like that to you and then voted a four, that would be why... for encouragement's sake, at least. :)
Don't stressssss. Smiiilllle. :)

Well ... I think it is only very sensible to point out each other's flaws ... but to decide who does belong and who does not belong here ... this is not something to say ... it might just be quite painful for some ...

I do agree with the fact that Poetess is wrong ... however, I do not agree with making a big fuss out of it ...this is growing way out of it proportion ... just point out where the flaws are at and that is enough

For Poetess, please do not argue with each point said ... mostly are just true ... I'd urge you to just take a deep objective look on that thread and I am sure it will all make sense to you ... No one here meant to offend you in anyway ... we all just want this place to be a better place and that is all ...

Right guys??! :D

"Right guys??! :D" Agreed.

The fuss grew with how things were being responded to. Hopefully we can all move on from this and the original poster has stayed with the community.

"Though you might hear laughin', spinnin' swingin' madly across the sun
It's not aimed at anyone, it's just escapin' on the run
And but for the sky there are no fences facin'
And if you hear vague traces of skippin' reels of rhyme
To your tambourine in time, it's just a ragged clown behind
I wouldn't pay it any mind, it's just a shadow you're
Seein' that he's chasing."
From Dylan's "Mr. Tambourine Man"

It would be fair to assume that rayre words has noting against colloquial expression . All the fives I have given the poetess were not to pacify her. Though words and I have the same taste in folk I admit that I have over rated the value of our rating system as well. To err is human and I would not dig up bones if I did not feel they could be helpful in evolving this site to promote the idea of the survival of the fittest. I also would agree with the poetess that members should be able to discuss difference of opinion without penalty because many of us prefer the premise of going home without having to defend the whole nine yards as we engage in healthy competition

An error is human and forgiveness is divine. In the mean time we all would do well not to take rating too seriously .

Yeah, the ratings are pretty much bunk. It would be nice if we could say "hey, leave a comment for why you voted a 2." But then why not say "you have to comment for why you voted a 5?" The ratings are a part of the site; I think we all just have to accept that they are arbitrary. Not only is the merit of a poem a matter of personal opinion, so is the very definition of what deserves a 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5.

Apart from all the discussions of this topic, it IS probably good to give n00bs the benefit of the doubt in these situations. It's hard to navigate PnQ's social waters sometimes : )

You really look like you've moved on Nano...

So you can degrade my writing skills (in another thread), call me little girl, threaten me that you'll get nasty with your words with me ""but I will insult you sevenfold if you cross the line, you don't know me yet mwah!". But I cannot state the truth? You are being stubborn irrational and impossible to speak with. You don't use reason you use pure rage. That's not a personal attack that's saying exactly how you've been acting on this thread.

Let Jane understand where my Big girl panties edit came from. After you said this to me
"I can talk to you in a disrespectful way too, do not think I can't, remember how I can talk, you remember? right?"
I don't take kindly to people threatening that they will get nasty with me. I am allowed to defend myself. If you didn't want that kind of a response. Perhaps next time don't provoke a poisonous snake.

Geez you can sure dish it, but you sure as heck can't take it back Nano. If you communicate the way you have I will continue to speak to you in the same manner you speak to me.

Haha ;)

I meant what I said this girl in regards to this thread is just being beyond irrational. Perhaps you can talk some reason into her Bob. Let her know that threatening anyone in any type of way isn't a way to play nice. Nor will it get a very nice response in return. Since I can't seem to get through to her perhaps you could.

For now I'll play shinny by myself while you lace up the skates :D Wait how long has it been since you've skated (seriously). This may be something I will have to come down to actually see :D I haven't been on the ice for 2 fricken years. Gosh do I miss it.

I am glad that Ray has decided to stay. So I guess this post has run it's course?

Locking this thread. I told everyone once already to play nice and my warning fell job deaf ears.