Winners! Tuesday October 2, 2012

EDIT:

These are the votes and comments from 4 judges, another judge had emergency issues to ya s***happens :]

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CONGRATULATIONS, everyone! Keep the amazing work. This is late, I am sorry, I totally forgot about posting it, what a human being :P.

Well done for those who have made it to the front page, and a big loud applaud for the HMs, we had a tie on 2nd and 3rd place, between 4 poems, with 10 points each. The tie was broken by the site sending MeMe's and Slighte's poems to grace the front page.

You're all winners, and you all write honoring poems, anyway! K, enough:

WINNERS:

Mirror's Mistake 7+4 = 11 points
By Max

Words Cant do it all
By Meme 10 points

September Hope 10 points
by slighte

---Ties:

Why I stopped believing
by Chelsey 10 points

Life as a yo-yo
by Darren 10 points

________________
HMS with 7 points :
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Goodnight
by The Poet Behind The Poems

Atop of The Hill: The Roof
by Everlasting

Insanity
by Maple Tree

_______________
HMs with 4 points:
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Love without Loss
by Naughtymouse

Delta
by Karla

Crayons and glitter
by Baby Rainbow

COMMENTS:
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Mirror's Mistake
By Max

This piece has a lot of emotion and some excellent points were made. The word choice is excellent and the style is wonderful. The flow was smooth and detailed. Of all the pieces like this, this one really stands out in my mind. I like how there is a glimmer of hope at the end. Great job.

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I was very, very torn between choosing this poem and one other as my final pick. I finally decided to go with this one because of the emotion throughout and the postive underlying message.
The opening succeeds in making me smile slightly-it starts with such a sombre tone but quickly becomes more positive and hopeful. I like the twist in emotion.
I very much enjoyed how throughout the poem the reader is led to believe the author is talking to someone else, only to find later that they are actually talking to themselves. True, it is something commonly used in poetry (At least, on this site) however I did not find this to be cliche as so many other works are.
The third stanza has to be my favourite. We all try to deal with our own negative opinions of ourselves and yet too often we do so by doing something that causes even more problems, and then we find we are right back at square one again. It's a vicious cycle, yet something many can relate to, myself included.
The closing stanza holds such hope and promise-to me, this says "I may not believe in myself. Yet. But I will. Someday, I will." I believe we are all capable of more than we choose to believe of ourselves, yet too often we are stifled by our own damaging thoughts and negative critiscim of ourselves and this stunts our growth in our personal areas, and stops us from achieving what we could truly be capable of, if we only had the confidence to try.
The only negative thing I found here was the constant use of filler words throughout the poem. I found this poem both enjoyable, positive, a refreshing change and it is good...with a little work it could be great.

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September Hope
by slighte

The author of this piece has the ability to captivate me with her excellent word display. This poem touched me deeply. I could feel the tragedy within her writing.... It's very difficult to make the reader feel along with each word and I found this poem to be brilliant in my eyes.

Truly a powerful nature poem and yet I'm glad she chose to place it in the sad genre, for she touched upon her sorrow of the tragedy itself in such a way that is mesmerizing to the reader. I admire who way of formatting this poem and the inspiration to keep on living and surviving in the end was very powerful. This poem deserves to be highlighted in so many ways... Wonderful piece of poetry!

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Words Cant do it all
By Meme

Wow, this piece is wonderful. There is nothing about it that I can find any need or want to change. The style is phenomenal and the emotion is oozing in all the perfect places. The word choice is amazing and really says a lot on many dimensions. To me, this piece seems to be one of those that almost everyone should read. There is a wonderful point to this piece and it is extremely well penned

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Life as a yo-yo
by Darren

Darren this is a masterpiece. A poem with so many metaphors, but for once, the overuse did not destroy this poem or make it difficult to understand. It made it stunning. Loved your opening stanza and how you molded the expression "rain on my parade" in there. Just beautiful. I quite love the second stanza and your use of "wallowing with worms", as much as it is gross, it's an amazing image of someone buried underground alive because that's the only place they feel they can escape the world and themselves. Then, when you jumped into this yo-yo analogy, I was completely blown away. Unique! What I got out of this, was someone is there in your life for the positives, but when you need them most, when you are going through the negatives they are far from you. Not there for you. Sick of being there to be played with when its convenient for that person, but never for you. I felt like you said so much with this piece and it's so relatable if you truly break it down. Excellent poem Darren.

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Why I stopped believing
by Chelsey

I particular enjoy the opening congratulations, as it could be interpretated in so many ways. It has the potential to be something happy yet the next two lines cvompletely twist that around and already I find I'm hit with several emotions when I have only just begun reading.
The last three lines of the opening verse are what I love most about the whole piece. It's so unique and beautifully worded, and the "tenth second chance," "twentieth anxiety attack" and "entering the seventieth migraine" manage to portray such a sense of hopelessness and defeat. It's like saying I really wanted us to be on better terms, I wanted you in my life, but you just wont change no matter how many times I let you try. And that is very sad, but all too common.

The opening of the next verse is incredibly powerful, emotional, far reaching and hard hitting. I absolutely relish these lines, and as a very impatient person, I can relate and this really stands out to me.

"People never change. Circumstances do." How apt. I find this to ring with absolute truth, and the fact that so many people claim that they -will- change, yet never do so saddens me, and that fact is portrayed well throughout this entire poem.

Second to last stanza is beautiful. It's deeply thought provoking and moving and I believe that any person who has been given a second chance by someone will find these lines very powerful and make them realize what a rare oppurtunity they were given. Hopefully that would make them treasure it, and for the people who are still on their first chance, they would value it and not -need- a second.

Ending, filled with almost as much emotion and depth as the rest of the piece combined. Something that stays with the reader long after reading. I would have liked to see more imagery throughout, there was some yes, but not as much as I would have liked. However, I simply love this whole write.

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Atop of The Hill: The Roof
by Everlasting

I love the uniqueness and creativity of this love poem. As I read it, I found myself reading it out loud, over and over again, and I fell in love with this piece! I knew then I had to highlight this piece..

I could vision myself dancing on the roof with my love. I admire poetry that affects me in such a way. The repetition of this poem fit perfectly with the tone.... It was very elegant and truly whispered to me. Amazing piece of poetry!

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Delta
by Karla

This poem was very calming and yet I couldn't help but feel sorrow and frustration. I admired the nature tones within and the visual display of a woman sitting near a pond of koi fish was very soothing. I adore poems with a deep passion intertwined.

I also felt like the woman is trying to take on the weight of the world and needing to take a break from the struggles. The creative look of this piece is what hooked me along with the many paths I took while reading this piece... Very nice!!

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Goodnight
by The Poet Behind The Poems

What an absolutely breathtaking opening. Such admirable imagery captured in so few words. I do like the use of crystal moon. It makes me picture a pleasent and inviting star lit night with a twinkling moon, and speaks of tranquilty, yet I know this isn't the case as I progress further throughout the poem.

I also enjoyed how the author states they hold their head from the pain-death always leaves us with emotional pain that we never quite recover from and I find the way the author decided to make it a physical sort of pain to show this unique and refreshing.

I found myself tearing up as I progressed further, especially as I'm sure everyone can relate to forgetting about the negative side of life upon first opening their eyes in a morning. For a second, everything seems okay until the remnants of sleep fade and suddenly you're hit with such loss and pain and the author does a good job of stating and showing that here.

The last stanza and closing line are filled with so much sadness and the reader can feel the author's wistful and pensive state.

I am unsure if this is true or not, if it is I wish the author my condolences and to remember that whilst the pain never goes away, it does eventually become easier to bare. If it is simply fiction, then the author certinaly did an incredible job expressing the emotions and feelings behind the words.

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Crayons and glitter
By Baby Rainbow

For a contest piece, this has a lot of heart to it and a great deal of emotion. It is well written and magnificent. The word choice is excellent, well for a child's vocabulary (which is just saying it fit the piece not that you have a low vocab.) The voice is loud and the point was expressed very well. Excellent job.

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Insanity
by Maple Tree

Maple Tree, this poem says so much in just a short amount of words. What a powerful message your put into this piece.
"Fame shines for a short while,
words are remembered for a
lifetime."

^ this was your message. Words are so powerful, people need to be careful and aware of how they use them. I like the image of the billboard. As we all know, there are tons of controversial ones out there that really do stir up a ton of emotions. I never would have thought to write a poem about it though and if I had, I don't think it could be as powerful and beautifully written as this. Loved it.

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Love without Loss
by Naughtymouse

This poem ached with sadness and with love. I cannot imagine the reaction this would get out of a widow who has lost their one true love. It happens every day, people die, and their loved ones are stuck rummaging through their items and smelling them and clinging to anything they have left of them. The emotion in this piece really stood out to me. The imagery even more. I felt like I was watching a sad chick flick when reading. I see this was written for a club contest, a job well done and I hope you won. This poem just sends a message to its readers, cherish every moment with your loved one because before you know it, unexpectedly it could be over. Great job Naughtymouse I truly enjoyed this poem.

---
Ms Sunshineeeeeee
(let me know if I messed anything up)

4 Judges this week....sometimes it's 3 sometimes 5...now 4...what exactly is the decision with the number of judges and...I know it was said and agreed by whom I can't remember that the site will choose in a tie break situation but....please...when you have so many it just isn't fair.

Now onto the only two judges to vote the same poem....really...well written?...actually it wasn't..it was not grammatically correct and...although I know english is not this member's first language shouldn't we be looking for a little more on our front page or....have standards dropped here?

Judge number 2 who left this in part of their comment...

I very much enjoyed how throughout the poem the reader is led to believe the author is talking to someone else, only to find later that they are actually talking to themselves

^^^^^

Really? didn't the title give this away from the start....sure did to me!

Congratulations Winners and HMs
and thanks Judges for the nice comments =)

Hellon, each of the judges have a taste, and we should respect that. Mods chose their judges, and I think they knew well whom they have chosen.

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Congrats Max, Meme, and Slighte. I enjoyed your pieces much.

Sorry....I beg to differ. Yes, we have different tastes but...as judges everything should be considered. If it's formed poetry the judges should be looking to see that rules are followed for example. If the grammar is not correct it should not be considered for the front page. I would like to add here that before a poem is even nominated the member nominating should be pointing out any errors to the author before it's nominated. Neither of the judges gave this poem a 10 so neither thought it the best poem and yet...it has the highest score this week...which means...some of the poems with a 10 were left to the mercy of the site deciding which went through.

Congrats everyone!Thanks for the comment.It is exactly what I wanted all my readers to feel.

Congratulations to the winners and Hm's :-)
thank you very much for the Hm and lovely comment~

Great poetry this week :) Congratulations everyone.

Thanks for my HM

really appreciated

I would like to add here that before a poem is even nominated the member nominating should be pointing out any errors to the author before it's nominated.

^^^ What if the one nominating the poem does not spot any errors?

But Hellon, if you can see those grammar errors, why don't you be a good sammaritan and pm the author or comment on the poem pointing out the grammar errors as well as some suggestions?

Edit: may be not the suggestions just where the errors are so that the poet can correct them.

p.s. If you already done that disregard my comment.

The poem won with two Judges. Not one, but two judges like it and also myself who was the one that nominated the poem.

Congrats to the winners and thank you for the Hm.

Well...excuse me...I could ignore your comment but...no...I just can't! I really hope all you dwellers who never come on here will now do so to back me up and say just how many times I've helped you out both in comments and in private....it depends on how I feel the author's emotions are when I read their poems...sometimes I think they can deal with harsh critique...sometimes I feel they are at a vulnerable point in their lives so I pm them....I do not nominated a poem that I see a whole lot of mistakes in....maybe one will pass me unnoticed but...not very many...so...I don't really consider myself as a good samaritan just someone who is good at proof reading everyones work but my own :)

I know you are a great helper, Hellon, and that is much appreciated by many.

But, isn't your favorite poem of all times on PnQ full of grammar mistakes?

You showed it to us once. IMO, it's weak. But you love it. See? Everyone has a taste, even if there are some mistakes.

As much as I don't think this is the place to discuss this, since the judges comments and votes should be a positive thread. I do agree with you Hellon.

We are writers, our only rule should be checking grammar. It does sadden me a bit when I too see poems that win that are really flawed. Not flawed with the topic or word choice, we all write differently, but with grammar or flow. It drives me nuts. I wish people would be a little mindful of that when nominating a poem, or choosing it to win.

Hellon I am quite curious though, and this is not me being a smart ass or anyhing, why don't you judge? If you have time to read the nominated poems, read the judging, and complain about it, are you able to offer up your time to fix it or judge yourself?

That's the reason why I included my P.s. I know you are good with grammar and you have pointed out some of my errors before. In this poem that i nominated, I don't see any error...

So my question to your comment.. "I would like to add here that before a poem is even nominated the member nominating should be pointing out any errors to the author before it's nominated."

So if the one who nominated the poem can't see any errors.
Then should I stop nominating?

I second Chelsey in the 'Why don't you judge?' part.

We need mods to interfere in here. They chose the judges, and judges have a taste. I can't see the problem in there?

* Luce, WHAT? You are free to nominate whatever you want, whether it's full of mistakes or not. And judges have 'eyes'.

Chelsey...I have said no in the past to being a judge because...I really hate committing myself to anything....you and I were in the same club together years ago so...you know I leave come back etc...this time around I did consider it but....the time frame was wrong for me...Larry asked for judging until the end of November...I couldn't do it..my son is getting married overseas in November so...I won't be around much in that month..hope you understand?

Yes...you should still be able to nominate...sorry..I never considered that a nominator could possibly not have english as their first language also but....IM O..that's why we have judges...3..4..5..surely some of them could pick up errors???

I wasn't going to say anything because it will come across as sour grapes, however i agree with Hellon, flawed poems shouldn't win, winning poems should be the benchmark of what a great poem looks like.
Any new member should be able to look at winning poems to help them learn, what will they learn from flawed wins?
Hellon has been very helpful with her reviews and i applaud her for her spirit and opinion.
Judges may have tastes, but do they have a taste for poor grammer?

I think I said that even Hellon has a taste for poor grammar. Her favorite poem of all time is flawed. Let her give you its link.

And I can't even find any errors in Max's poem. :/
I'm sorry.

^ exactly....

I would never tell anyone how to write. We all express ourselves differently. Rhyming/non rhyming, forms or no forms, but again the one rule of writing ANYTHING, a poem, an essay, a letter, is a grammar. I feel like this needs more consideration because this site is awesome filled with awesome poets but Id hate to have a new person come to PnQ see the winners, and find I's that aren't capatalized or received spelled recieved...easy stuff that can be fixed..

I'm not talking about this weeks winners. Just in general.

I hate to admit but Hellon is right.
Here is a good article on breaking grammar rules in Poetry:
http://www.writingforward.com/grammar/grammar-rules/breaking-grammar-rules-in-poetry-writing

LP...I sent you the link to my very favourite poem on this site...at the time I did state the author did not have english as his first language....I also stated that there were many grammatical errors in his verse....I never nominated it..no one did...it was never on the front page representing this site and...that's a huge difference. Regardless of it's flaws....it still touched my heart and....nothing anyone else has written on this site has even come close but....we all have different tastes as you pointed out....but if they are personal tastes it doesn't matter...if it had been nominated and I was judging no ....I would not have hesitated in rejecting it...

Anyway...here it is for the curious among you...

http://www.best-love-poems.com/poems.php?id=1022722

I'm sorry again, but I can't find uncapitalized 'i's or recieved. In the weekly contest, we cannot generalize. You should specify whom you are talking about. It's okay to mention names. Eventually, those winners will also learn to come up every time with something better.

May I say that Hellon, Darren, and Chelsey don't like Max's winning poem? But... the judges liked it. Again, back to the 'taste' issue. I liked it, too. Maybe you don't connect with it, I understand.

But.... what about previous winners?

Darren, I'm sorry, I may sound like a jackass, but your latest winning poem 'The club of one' is not front page worthy, of course IMO... But it's not my business. Judges know what they're choosing.

This is my whole idea.

I definitely just said I wasn't talking about this weeks winners.

And the use of I's I see often, as well as misspelled words. I don't need to call people out here, I let them know personally. I have more class than to throw people under the bus.

I understand the different taste thing Abed and I get that. If a judge liked Max's poem then awesome! I think Hellons point was more so on grammar errors. If it wasn't, then that was my point. I don't really care about the topic, or the style, I have an open mind when reading poetry, but again, as a writer you should make it your only rule to proof read your work.

LP...I'm just speaking on my own behalf here...please do not put words in my mouth. I didn't say I didn't like his poem..I indicated that there were some grammar faults in the poem and for that reason the judges should not have considered it.

I like Max's poems but Grammar is important. There are many poems that are front page worthy but never get there. I think that above all we have to respect the judges. However Grammar is important in Poetry I still don't know if creativity lies on breaking Grammar rules or not. But what I have seen is that most well known poets don't break them.Maybe creativity lies when a poem reads the reader.

*This debate is making me consider a lot of things in Poetry which have always haunted me.

* I don't think I's should be capitalized if the poet doesnt want to.. Maybe the poet when not capitalizing an I is showing his smallness, his fragile ego. I dont know. Why should I be capitalized if the other pronouns aren't?eecummings broke many grammatical rules and he was/is a great poet.

Chelsey, you have just participated in this discussion. And I don't think you can throw words out here and generalize without letting people know what you're talking about exactly. Because there is no point in speaking about the grand scheme. And LOL, what's class to do if you want to criticize a front page winner?

You are still saying 'grammar' mistakes. Could you please tell us where are they?

Congrats everyone!

I didn't know about E.E cummings... cool!

Hellon,

No problem, I think they did pick the errors.. that's why they gave a 7 and a 4, instead of a 10.

It just happens that there were two judges who like the content of the poem and the Twist. If I am not mistaken base on reading previous threads, the judges doesn't know which judge voted for what poem..

So having two judges who voted on the same poem says something about the poem, doesn't it?

The point that I am trying to say is that yes I do agree completely that grammar is really important, but there are poems that may have a better content or that have a more profound effect on the reader that one that is grammatically correct. And just because a poem has grammar errors, it shouldn't be unconsidered from being on the front page.

Now, does the poem that was chosen to be on the front page shall remain with grammar errors for the whole week? I think not.

So in case, if a poem that wins has grammar errors then those who can spot the errors please pm the author so that the errors may be taken care. Specially, the Judges who voted for the poem.

In this particular case, I think the judges who voted didn't know the poem will be on the front page they wanted to give an honorable mention to the author for the content and the twist in his poem, and two judges agreed on the same which in my opinion makes the poem as deserving as the others to win.

Sorry for taking too much time for my reply.

For you Abed

i carry your heart with me

by E. E. Cummings

i carry your heart with me(i carry it in
my heart)i am never without it(anywhereii go you go,my dear; and whatever is done
by only me is your doing,my darling)
i fear
no fate(for you are my fate,my sweet)i want
no world(for beautiful you are my world,my true)
and it's you are whatever a moon has always meant
and whatever a sun will always sing is you

here is the deepest secret nobody knows
(here is the root of the root and the bud of the bud
and the sky of the sky of a tree called life;which grows
higher than the soul can hope or mind can hide)
and this is the wonder that's keeping the stars apart

i carry your heart(i carry it in my heart)

You may think I "can't " generalize, but I'm going to and can. Because I've just seen it in the past. Do I remember EVERY one of them, no because its not saved in a favorites. I will just comment or Pm and let them know of grammatical errors, I don't keep their poem memorized to where I can name names or titles to make my point valid. All I'm saying is I've seen it. Since its important to you that I give you specific names of people, I promise when I have time I will go through peoples poems and point out the ones I am talking about. Aha.

And Luce, a poem sits in the "contest nomination" for a week, I think that's plenty of time to fix your grammar before it makes it to the front page.

P.s everyone who knows me well knows e.e cummings is my favorite poet and that is y favorite poem but its drives me nuts that he did not capitalize I's. I don't see the point in not capitalizing it. I is supposed to be capitalized. Period. As much as I adore that poem I wouldn't pick that to win. But see....that's just my taste and preference.

^I LOVE THIS POEM, one of my favs...

Chelsey, how can one fix the grammar error if it's not seen by the author and no one else points the errors out?

^ that's what I have been saying Luce, is people should consider that more when writing, reading or judging, and point it out. If the author doesn't see it, leave it to you readers. If not seen by a reader, then it should be seen by a judge. If a judge doesn't see it then its pretty sad it gets through that many people and no one can fix spelling.

Omg, Karla, that last stanza was awesome....
I don't read English poetry (except for PnQers) at all, so I don't know this guy...

In fact, the uncapitalized I's didn't bother me at all. I always prefer content over grammar. I can be moved away even if there is punctuation mistakes...errors... etc... Poetry is different than writing stories and novels. It has more freedom in it.

And in Arabic we say: A poet is allowed to do what others aren't allowed to. (Wow, that rhymed in my translation :p)

It is sad... that's one reason why I have grammar errors.. I was never told I had any.

and ... Any who!!

Still Congrats to the Winners!

LP , i was commenting on hellons post rather than call out somebodies poem, but as you have stated that mine was not worthy i would be interested to know why?

First, know that I didn't mean to attack you. It happened that you were a part of this conversation, and you said that there were grammatical flaws, that's why I told you, that your winning poem is of no difference.

It's not my job to say anything about it, specifically HERE. If I want, I would've told you on your poem, as everybody should've on Max's poem (if there were any errors).

Anyway, if you insist...

"stupid useless self-loathing
wasteful bastard" speaks enough... and no punctuation in the 1st line, 4th, 6th.. and no capitalization in the end.

Again, I'm not attacking you. I'm just backing up my thought that there are always flawed poems up there. But... once again, those on the front page do not represent PnQ's taste. Judges loved them, and we have nothing to do with their choice, whether there are mistakes, or not.

I think I made my point. I'm sorry if I bothered anyone.

English being his 2nd language, is not even an excuse, I know American and British people who would write with totally terrible grammar structure O.o
that's for one.

Two, his poem doesn't have any grammar mistake, and if there is, please point it out ?
and if there was, then someone perhaps pointed it out ? and it's gone..so we don't have any OTHER problem.

Because nobody over here has the qualifications to decide if a certain poem is up to a certain standard, unless you have been qualified with the enough skills, hellon ? for this : "shouldn't we be looking for a little more on our front page or....have standards dropped here?" ??

Some of the best poems, are poems written in simple language, his language was proper, so nothing is left to complain about, except for the grammar structure, and I can find nothing to complain about regarding grammar.

And who said it matters if the 11 was a fixed score, or the sum of 2 votes given by two different judges ? that's so ridiculous. 11 is 11, infact it adds more credibility to this, since this wasn't just one judge who thought that the poem deserved a chance to win, but TWO thought it was worthy. Whether they gave it a 10 or a 1. They still voted, and it scored the highest between the rest of the poems, he was the only one to catch the attention of two judges from the whole team. so ppft! I don't get what's up over here.

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sometimes I think they can deal with harsh critique...sometimes I feel they are at a vulnerable point in their lives so I pm them

^^^
really ? so if his poem had grammar mistakes, why did you not pm him about it rather than complaining about his poem going to the front page ? and if it's because he miight not deal well with harsh critique then do you think complaining about his poem in a congratulation thread, any better ?! It's really unkind.

No body can put standards that state whether a poem is worthy to represent this website or not, you are right about grammar, but when I can't find one grammar mistake, then I cannot understand all this chaos about someone's poem going to the front page without giving any attention to their personal emotions.

You also complained about this:

Really? didn't the title give this away from the start....sure did to me!

^
what's the deal hellon, we all read differently, perhaps the judge took a different meaning from the title, unlike you getting it from the start. You keep underestimating ....can you see that in your posts ?

Perhaps you should have said yes to the judging position. IF you don't like committing yourself to anything, then you should change your mind, especially that you feel like you know more than the current judges do.

"as judges everything should be considered."

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with that said, Hellon did point out some grammar mistakes of mine, before, and for some other poets I guess, but who doesn't do that ? :) we all read other people's work better than reading our own.

Sorry Max you had to hear all the complaining about your poem! Congratulation again, everyone over here do write some amazing poems that do deserve to represent the front page...this went so wrong.

Oh Nana, at this point you need to put on you helmet dear because it seems EVERY week, there is chaos! Every week its complain complain complain from people which why half the time I don't even say anything....

I just wish people who complained could commit there time to fixing "issues" :/