The True Message of The Prophet

Oh yes, sorry I forgot, also the French music ! TE HEEE...

/o/ Go Nana
\o\ Go Nana

Don' want to offend anyone or start anything, but I do have to say Kevin you asked for it and Ms Sunshine delivered. I don't get what more you would want in regards to evidence oO

^ Oh I see.
Ms. Sunshine: I appreciate your lengthy explanation. So as a religious scholar yourself (as you read the Holy book daily and sleep with it under your pillow) I am going to ask you a few qns, since you are well versed in what is written in it. Please do not take this as an offense on your religion or the holy book, but education to the ignorant (me). I will refrain completely from any direct offensive statements, as I do have respect for the "good" in Qu'ran. So to begin my education, give me your explanation for these ancient verse's, as you stated earlier "Nothing in the Quraan can be ignored David, sorry to disappoint you, every single letter in it is Holly for every Muslim." So let us begin my education. Please desist from answering my qn offensively, as you yourself said Islam is the religion of Peace.

Here are a few quotes from the holy book from you to explain to the ignorant me. And feel free to consult Dr. Gary Miller, so I get the best possible education:

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"
(The last line is kind of shocking, ........very little for me to say.....I will let you explain it away)

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Sura 47 also contains this verse: "When you encounter the unbelievers on the battlefield, strike off their heads until you have crushed them completely; then bind the prisoners tightly."
(Is there where the beheading tradition comes from, stuff we have seen over the 2000 years, as recently as - http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/06/arab-spring-muslims-behead-christian-man-in-tunisia-while-reciting-anti-christian-islamic-prayer/)

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." (My read - dehumanize those who don't belive in Islam, that these unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, making it easier to justify slaughter. Does it also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside their faith.)

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" (Is Islam not about treating everyone equally).

And this is only my first round of questions. I have a lot to learn from your reading of it. If I decide to convert to your faith, these are the first questions I will ask of the cleric. So I have a lot to ask, being curious and ignorant : (

(as you read the Holy book daily and sleep with it under your pillow)

^
thanks :)

Please do not take this as an offense on your religion or the holy book,

^ not at all ;) the contrary.

------

So let us begin my education. Please desist from answering my qn offensively,

^

okay, I won't :

Copied:

also this must be the last I say about religion, I only broke my word because you asked for evidence, and those who have it, should not hide it. the book is in my hands, I rely on it. I dont expect others to change their thoughts about Islam, I only quoted the book because you asked for a verse from a copy I consider real. Since I got you what you want, I hope no body tries to get me into this debate again, I dont want to prove for anyone whether Islam is peaceful or harmful. It is what it is, I am who I am, you are who you are...say what you want, I will not stop you.

edit:

It's just that you cracked me up, and if I said so, it would offend you LOL..when you used your ironic tone, David, ssaying how un-educated you are about Islam...I did not know, it was THIS MUCH, LMAO!! ....I will not write an explanation, I will show you one :P

------------------------------------------------

Ever heard of Badr Battle, David ? :P one of the biggest battles in the islamic history...a turning point as well, well the quotes you got me, are not commands of doing evil...LOL how come you want to educate yourself, when you dont even know what the book is talking about...you posted up there a "question" a verse, that I expected you to know about, since you were talking all the way through about how much you know. O.o

anyway. this is for you, and the last thing I reply you about this, David, God I keep saying it's the last time, but please go read a little bit before you come with your ironic tone, that really did put you in a very bad position, anyway :

One often quoted verse used against Muslims is that of Surah 8, ayat 12. The verse reads as:

008.012
: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

Anti-Islamics like to always bring this up and claim that this verse proves that Islam promotes terrorism and that the Quran orders Muslims to go and chop people's heads off along with their finger tips.

The fact that anti-Islamic's make such claims shows their lack of knowledge on Islam, and that they should really study Islam with an open heart rather than visit anti-Islamic sites, and read anti-Islamic books and believe everything they tell you.

Even that goon Ali Sina uses this same argument over and over again showing how little he knows about Islam.

So to make things easier for everybody, I shall give the explanation of this verse, in doing so it shall help making dialog between Muslims and anti-Islamic's much easier, since there can't be any dialog when one party's information is incorrect and distorted.

To begin, this verse is referring to a SPECIFIC BATTLE, this verse is not an order on Muslims, and this verse is talking about a battle that took place. The battle it is referring to is the battle of Badr.

Al-Maududi's introduction to this Surah writes:

Name
The Surah takes its name AL-ANFAL (The Bounties) from the first verse.

The Period of Revelation
It was revealed in 2 A. H. after the Battle of Badr, the first battle between Islam and kufr. As it contains a detailed and comprehensive review of the Battle, it appears that most probably it was revealed at one and the same time. But it is also possible that some of the verses concerning the problems arising as a result of this Battle might have been revealed later and incorporated at the proper places to make it a continuous whole. At any rate, in the whole Surah there is nothing that might show that it is a collection of a couple of discourses, that have been patched up together.

--------------
Let us now also post the EXPLANATION of regarding this verse:

God commands the Angels to fight and support the Believers

God said next,

((Remember) when your Lord revealed to the angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed.'')

This is a hidden favor that God has made known to the believers, so that they thank Him and are grateful to Him for it. God, glorified, exalted, blessed and praised be He, has revealed to the angels -- whom He sent to support His Prophet, religion and believing group -- to make the believers firmer. God's statement,

(I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved.) means, `you -- angels -- support the believers, strengthen their (battle) front against their enemies, thus, implementing My command to you. I will cast fear, disgrace and humiliation over those who defied My command and denied My Messenger, f

(so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes.) strike them on their foreheads to tear them apart and over the necks to cut them off, and cut off their limbs, hands and feet. It was said that,

(over the necks) refers to striking the forehead, or the neck, according to Ad-Dahhak and `Atiyyah Al-`Awfi. In support of the latter, God commanded the believers,

(So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in God cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, take them as captives).) [47:4]
Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said, "In the aftermath of Badr, the people used to recognize whomever the angels killed from those whom they killed, by the wounds over their necks, fingers and toes, because those parts had a mark as if they were branded by fire.'' God said,

(and smite over all their fingers and toes.)
Ibn Jarir commented that this Ayah commands, "O believers! Strike every limb and finger on the hands and feet of your (disbelieving) enemies.'' Al-`Awfi reported, that Ibn `Abbas said about the battle of Badr that Abu Jahl said, "Do not kill them (the Muslims), but capture them so that you make known to them what they did, their ridiculing your religion and shunning Al-Lat and Al-`Uzza (two idols).'' God than sent down to the angels,

(Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes.)

In that battle, Abu Jahl (may God curse him) was killed along with sixty-nine men. `Uqbah bin Abu Mua`it was captured and then killed, thus bring the death toll of the pagans to seventy,

(This is because they defied and disobeyed God and His Messenger.) joining the camp that defied God and His Messenger not including themselves in the camp of God's Law and faith in Him. God said,

(And whoever defies and disobeys God and His Messenger, then verily, God is severe in punishment.) for He will crush whoever defies and disobeys Him. Nothing ever escapes God grasp nor can anything ever stand against His anger. Blessed and exalted He is, there is no true deity or Lord except Him.

(This is (the torment), so taste it; and surely, for the disbelievers is the torment of the Fire.)
This Ayah addresses the disbeliever, saying, taste this torment and punishment in this life and know that the torment of the Fire in the Hereafter is for the disbelievers.

So as you can see, these events were taking place during a battle. Now off course during a battle in those days you would aim for the neck to get an immediate blow, and off course you would also aim for their fingers, once taking out their fingers the enemy would not be able to carry his sword hence you neutralize the enemy.

So there is nothing barbaric or mean about these verses, it is simply referring to a battle, and nothing barbaric was done in the battle neither these were how battles were fought back then.

And Go Knows Best

Ahem....SHAAA BAAAM!

Lol :P

one thing I know, you googled, something like

EVIL IN THE QURAAN ? or something similar, I don't expect that you have read it and memorized them :) you can say otherwise though.

I advise you to google " scientific miracles of the Quraan" much healthier for your knowledge, rather than this, doesn't need a background on the Islamic history.

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/

another place for you to visit : iif your intentions are reallly to know more, there you go: a link that shows that Islam doesn't instruct Muslims to kill non-Muslims

http://www.islamforpeace.org/quran.html

So ya, Mousy, can it be louder please ?

SHAAAAAAA BAAAAAMMMMM!!!!!!!!

Ms Sunshine, thank you for the time you have taken to show me some positive quotes from the Quran, that was nice of you. You haven't convinced me of anything because here in Britain we have large groups of radical Muslims, most of whom I assume have studied the Quran as much as you, and they take a very different reading of the Holy Texts.

If it was just us ignorant non believers who were getting your books words wrong, I'd totally be on your side but your own people can't even understand your book properly, if what you say is true. If well read and studied fellow Muslims are misinterpreting the Quran, and lets assume they have the correct translation and know the history...how can you honestly say you have the right meaning and we/they don't?

Look to yourselfs and the example being set across the world before you tell me or anyone else we aren't reading the words properly.

/tiphat.

Shaaabooomboombang.

^^HaHA Ben! You seem to be having a lot of fun here, wait till we finish the education. Then you can have a KABOOM too!

Here is Ben's video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewSHLDsZX1E
A peaceful one? :)

But, I am not done as I had stated with the education. Will come back later in this thread, once researched.
Meanwhile,

You asked for quotes, I gave quotes, I did not say I want to convince you Kevin, you asked for this.
I was very clear from the start.

I also said, I would be surprised if this wouldn't ring your bell. It just won't but still I did give the quotes you asked for, and no interpreter can change the meaning of these words. Very obvious. But let's leave it here.

and I never said you are not reading words properly ? as for not reading at all, that's a different subject.

You are most welcome :P

--- edit

researched ? hehe :P David, then find someone who "studied" it as Kevin said, it seems that I am also uneducated regarding my religion. You all know better, look around you !

Trust me I won't reply, so you will need someone else to answer the things you will "research"

LMAO!!! I am having fun reading through the thread, I loved the video hahaha......games,,,,very much like your arguments....i mean you ask for quotes and explanations from someone with all the grace of an elephant on stilts in such a passsive agressive manner saying you want to "learn" but how can you learn if you know it all already?? Clearly you dont want to learn just to argue.

I also live in the uk and i would agree that there are many radicals that use this book to insight fear into people, but thats your mistake kevin, the radicals are nothing but bully's, there are not muslims the are just fanatics they take the text out of context and use it for there own arguments and mis inform the youth to the real meanings of the teachings - much like david did here with the badr battle who i notice didnt comment on what was presented to him. I would suggest you perhaps go and visit a mosque and speak with the cleric there as from what i can tell "research" = google.

EDIT : sorry i forgot.....SHAABAAM!

Thank you Ben for making sense , really!

I just still not being able to understand, why would radicals be believed, and not what is being presented. However, maybe, because the intention was not to know but to just argue.

I did not bring all this up, I only shared a link that brought a smile to my face and wanted to share with others. Did not expect it to open up doors about whether Islam is peaceful or harmful.

My mistake!

Nana, the radicals shout louder and intimidate real muslims so their voice is muffled, then some people with very fixed views only take on board what the radicals say.....and dont take time to actually understand what is really in the texts.

The video is wonderful and shows a beautiful thing :-)

:)

^^Ben, I think you overlooked something, the thread is a welcome change from a Peace loving Muslim brought up the right way, and the video is wonderful, but the real fact of the matter is unchanged.
To date, the Peaceful people of this World continue to be intimidated by radical Islamists (including many prominent clerics throughout the Muslim world) who claim to know better about their religion (did you not watch the video at the bottom of my first post?) So what I really wanted to learn from someone here is what is in their holy text really that these radical Islamists use in defense of what they do...kill and murder innocents the world over using their faith and belief as defense. So allow me to finish before making your judgement (passive-aggressive) :).
-------------------------------------
Qu'ran [17:33] : You shall not kill any person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder; he will be helped.

Yet, Osama bin laden, his followers (Al Qaeda), Taliban, the Hezbollah and other mid-east terror groups, the numerous Pakistani terrorist groups (http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/pakistan/terroristoutfits/group_list.htm) and many others take the Verse of the Sword as a directive for aggression against innocents (non-believers/Pagans) and continue to preach Jihad.

How come?

If they all read the same Qu'ran as you did, what is in it that they claim is a directive from Allah to kill non-believers. Aren't virtually all of the continuing troubles in the Middle East, Pakistan and Afghanistan in which the US/NATO countries are involved in trying to establish the fragile peace, being compromised by these folks, who claim Allah, gave them the directive?

The innumerable suicide bombings, the kidnappings, kidnapping and killing embassy officials, bombing peacemakers, killing/kidnapping news reporters, Christian missionaries, the plane hijackings (prior to 9/11), 9/11, 7/11 and so forth.....I am curious why? If the teachings are that easy to understand and non-controversial.

And what do you think of this latest assessment by The National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC, a US govt agency) "Sunni Muslim terrorists committed "about 70 percent" of the 12,533 terrorist murders in the world last year": http://cnsnews.com/news/article/sunni-muslim-extremists-committed-70-terrorist-murders-2011 .....shocking, to say the least!

Were there any large scale demonstrations/condemnations organized by the "Peaceful Muslims" to end this violence in your part of the World? to protest what continues to infest the World order of Peace. Were there any roses of sympathy distributed to the Christians, Jews, Americans or the Westerners when these events happened?

So, Ms. Sunshine, why chastise me for not knowing what is "truly" written in the Qu'ran and being a "non-believer"? Why not go after educating the real Pagans, who have made the world a difficult place to live in today. I am just a non-Muslim, who like the rest of us non-believer's continue to face the wrath of these neo-Jihadi's who have ransacked the World and brought it to the stage of insecurity that we are in today? We still believe in Peace and people's goodness, despite the all around aggression around us today.

And yes, if you have anything else to teach me for my ignorance I am always willing to listen. :)

Can I answer you in this David?
about Bin Laden and Jehadi folks I remember I watched many vids about Bin Laden searching for one of them where he said he did all this terror in the name Allah but nothing and you can search that yourself and you will be much welcomed if you get me a video where he says that
and for the ones who claim to be killing by using the Islamic teaching well believe me our book doesn't have a single verse to tell us we are allowed to kill anybody
even the killers, God told us that Killer must be killed but by the ruler of the land means if he were really guilty he will face the law and be facing death or whatever the law says in that country so we aren't allowed to kill cause god made a soul so sacred and so important so non believers and believers all the same in this I don't have any right as a Muslim to kill this or that
so these people's claims are false and I think Nana explained that better than me

oh for the terror part I won't even discuss this cause I don't want to argue over it

and I think u mean the eastern side of the world?
oh well I am living in that side and I am enjoying peace with my Cristian brothers and sisters living in the same country as me ( I talk about what I know only )

I won't answer for Nana but if somebody want to learn he will go ask for teaching but they doesn't want to learn and it is their freedom btw why u look at the religion before you look at the personality
does being a Muslim means being good?? I don't thing so cause Muslims aren't angels some are bad and some are good. Does that make the teaching bad? No cause the good ones are mostly following it and the bad ones are just away from it

Islam and mormonism are basically christianity plus some very bad ideas. Do you think anyone can possibly have the "correct" translation or interpretation of any Holy book when scholars are still hotly debating the original texts of the bible, from which Islam and Mormonism is taken (the jewish bible I mean).

Are we to believe Ms Sunshine has moved past centuries of debate and found the literal truth of the Quran, and anyone, Muslim or no who has a different take is just wrong. Sounds crazy right, but that is her standpoint.

I accept the follies of all religions when it comes to interpretations. I studied it with christianity and it is no longer something that really interests me as a subject on its own.

The difference is, you don't see christians running around the streets of Britain in large groups demanding we keep the sabbath holy or suffer the consequences. We had our dark ages over here and we've evolved past that. Islam would be a massive step backwards in culture and society for the Uk.

^^Max: I hate to be a part of this discussion any more, as it seems to be going beyond what I had originally intended to ask.
I am sure you live in Peace with your Christian brothers and sisters, but this does not remove the fact that the history of free Lebanon after Independence from the British is nothing but otherwise....I was witness to all the news, before you were born, and you can find info yourself. Start here for an overview: http://globaledge.msu.edu/countries/Lebanon/history
Nor is their guarantee of future stability, if another war breaks out again in that region.

Re: Osama bin Laden, and the other jihadist's never used the Islamic teachings as a guise to justify terror......again, there is much to learn in history. Here is what I found to get started:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videos_and_audio_recordings_of_Osama_bin_Laden#September_16.2C_2001

Oct 7, 2001 is when he said it first, and then repeated it numerous times. The video's themselves can be found by searching the date of broadcast with his name, hopefully. Wikepidea does not give direct link to the video's. I have watched many of his broadcasts on TV here.

Lastly, here is another list of Jihadi's world over and their proclamation of fighting a Holy War:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/in-the-name-of-allah.htm

But, needless to say, I and most Americans/Westerners still believe in you, the educated children of a great religion, to one day root out the evil buried amidst. So good luck.

Hmm let me correct you

the Jew Holy Book was the first on Earth so you are totally wrong and Islam being similar doesn't mean it is taken from the Bible

please get your facts straight before you talk ( I mean no offense ) thanks

and I think the script is so clear unless u are willing to deny the words oh and since I explained that each Religion has its own book and not taken from each other I think you should think twice before you bring Christians debating about their holy book to this ground cause it has nothing to do with what we are talking about

I won't talk about that last thing you said it is your opinion so nothing for me to do but when you talk about things you state as ( Facts ) please be careful

well David I will tell you again I am 100% sure that there is nothing in our religion tells us to kill so when these people claim they kill people for religion I am sure they are wrong for 2 main reasons
1st I stated before no verse in Qur'an says that we should kill non believers
2nd Qur'an can't be interpreted differently anybody who study Islam will know that cause it was interpreted by people from the era of the prophet himself and in these old interpretations there was also nothing about killing non believers and I think people who took their knowledge of Qur'an from the prophet should know better than any of us now
so these people are totally wrong for these reasons I stated

and thanks for wishing us the best
I wish you the same my friend =)

Edit: I don't want to debate about this anymore too
so guess we are all on the same side =)

That's what you only think Kevin, that's what you are told, and that's what you want to believe. there are original text books and no body is searching for them, they are no lost, they are found in most of the houses who follow Islam! Scholars debating, Lol... No body is fighting for an interpretation, but at your side many are lying about it, especially those who are not Muslims. And those are the people YOU want to listen to, it's like whenever someone said Im a muslim, then we say he is a Muslim. oh yes, whatever floats your boat. But also, there are unoriginal copies, with verses fabricated. Also there are fanatics. And people who are too weak minded, as someone smart once said, weak minded because they can't analyze at all, it is not so hard to read the text book and see that whatever contradicts in it, is not Islamic.

How hard are these statements, is it that they are hard or that you people do not want to accept because you have so much hate inside of you that is blinding you ?

You asked for evidence, and I showed you, yet you all keep bragging and talking without one single evidence, all you do is give me links and show me words, and when you get an explanation, you refuse to take it into account, because of a stupid reason that you throw for me. If you don't think anything I say or is being said here is accountable because I am just one individual then why keep asking ? oh yes because you just wanna show more of the anti feelings you hide.

Also David, not everyone fighting for their lands are terrorists, where were you when Isreal was bombing ? oh Isreal was fighting because we were throwing bombs there ? well why did they scatter cluster bombs all around south Lebanon, and till this day hundreds of these bombs are not discovered yet and could explode in anyone wandering around!

Why do they break the blue lines and fly above the Lebanese boundaries in the south just to provoke troubles and then sit in the corner!

Why would I even expect you to see the real terrorism, when you are that biased.

where were you during Qannas mascaraed ?
Where are you everyday in Iraq ? LOL ya, I will tell you
Muslims are terrorists and Isreal and USA are finishing on those bastards that are turning the world into a spooky place whilst reading a book that commands them to kill, although no verse in it says so, but there is nothing like "fighting against invaders" no, it's terrorism.

you should be aware I am a Muslim I read the book, I might bomb the website O.o!

And you know, where you every single day at your part of the world, with the kidnaps and crimes and high ratings of rape done by criminals of the same nationality and not being muslims ? go to any place and take statistics for the increasing number of serial killers and then come tell me about terrorists, what about the corruption that has nothing to do with Islam or muslims ? take them from your local departments for statistics dear. Also you can go
do research about the starvation in Africa that's being taken advantage of for ....XXX commercials ;) definitely not Muslims taking benefits from. SEARCH the wars and terrorism not done by Muslims EVERY DAY yet not being highlighted .... you would be surprised, or not !

Okay we got you! we got your peaceful un-racist message, such a true person David! Thanks for opening our eyes for the truth.

But please don't be so shallow and start putting words in my mouth, no body said anything about you being unbeliever or about you unbelieving, every time you ask for an explanation, you are given one and every time you are given one you ignore it. you are disappointed every time I have an answer, you don't expect us to be different than what you are insisting us to be. you see it's not about the faith in religion,
no David, it's your lack of faith in your heart and your hatred that shows in every single post you make.

While I did not show you any of these feelings, because I feel pity.

Please keep your valuable thoughtful posts coming, I am learning more on how terrorism came from the heart of Islam, especially the countries that are not accepting being Invaded...nothing they tell you about Islam is true, yet everything is being said about people like you and their racism is being proved by every single word you say.

I kept trying to show you evidences, that you kept ignoring or rejecting, without trying to study them with an open heart, and kept bashing more and more....

I'm not impressed though, already heard the bullshit before, and ya have faith in us we educated bla bla bla, remember that in Palestine there are children who are NOT having the chance to enter school to be educated but still know the meaning of dignity, love and fighting for their families, and that is not terrorism, that is truth.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts again and showing your education and knowledge, I personally did appreciate it a lot.

Excuse my honesty, after all, I am just a 21 years old Muslim girl who comes from middle east and knows nothing about her region or religion, thank God who brought you to my way to lighten it up and show me the right path. I will no longer say bullshit, that doesn't make sense and try show evidences that are not valid to others.

Peace indeed! I'm off this thread.

Ms Sunshine, I am not ignoring your evidence. I've said already I am thankful you took the time to show me positive and peaceful aspects of the Koran.

I don't want to upset you, and I can tell from the tone of your posts you are starting to get personally offended. This always happens at some point in a religious debate when those of the faith feel threatened or insulted.

I want no part in making you feel annoyed.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Hhmm...No kevin, I have read these debates before, without being offended. David been using his ironic tone, over and over again with me ignoring it and yet replying him.

But it shows that receiving an answer is not what he wanted, I heard this about terrorism before without me saying any single word, so it did not offend me, if it did not offend me before, it won't now.

But that tone and ignorance by him, is too much.

Anyway thank you

Can i just highlight these comments from two members just to let them understand why...we in the western world do not understand what they are really saying...with one breath they love everyone and will show no harm to them and with the other...well..

author: Ms SunShine
status: member
date: 2012.10.04 10:01

[ post answer ]
Jews ? you must live in Haret Saida ...or Te3mir el Hara ?

author: Lebanese Phoenix
status: member
date: 2012.10.04 10:04

[ post answer ]
There were Jews even in Saida
's downtown.. not only in haret saida... I don't like there :p

^ lol at the Down Town.. I mean 'old saiida'

You in the western world ? oh please don't speak for everyone else.

When did we show that we hate, and then that we love ? and what did you highlight ? I don't get it.

If you fail to understand then that's your own problem.

He was spotting the places were Jews were living near Saida, before the War on Lebanon.

Has nothing to do with love or hate.

anyway, why would you be any different.

Yeah...Ok...I as a westerner find it very hard to comprehend everything you quote in the Quran as your true believe and then...you come up with such a reply...

author: Ms SunShine
status: member
date: 2012.10.04 10:01

[ post answer ]
Jews ? you must live in Haret Saida ...or Te3mir el Hara ?

author: Lebanese Phoenix
status: member
date: 2012.10.04 10:04

[ post answer ]
There were Jews even in Saida
's downtown.. not only in haret saida... I don't like there :p

^ lol at the Down Town.. I mean 'old saiida'

I mean...sounds to me they are segrigated...is this true?

What reply Hellon !? do you even understand what you, yourself are saying.

what's so wrong about the reply O.o how does asking him about which spot in Saida, reflects hatred or love. And how does this part, relate to the Holly Book ?!

Segregated ! :S for God's sake. did he say, Jews were only alllowed in Saida. Why do you come up with such thoughts and believe them.

NO, not segregated Hellon, he was talking about those who lived near him, doesn't imply anything like they only existed there.

No body tells no body where to live, we don't have such laws either. seriously, I think you find it hard to comprehend because you never read whatever is presented with an open heart.

All you do is copy, paste words and throw conclusions. "sounds to me they are segregated" how does that even make sense, you came up with your conclusion and said we are hard to be understood!

Again, talking about nationalities and splitting us into two sides, we in the Western world and you.blaa..

anyway... :S

Hands up...Totally give up on this....both posts indicated that the jews seemed to be segrigated....that's why I asked the question...they seemed demeaning to me...like..oh...that's where they live..I don't like it so..I don't go there...you asked yourself if that was..this district because you yourself knew it was a location/district that was jewish....finished here!

Both posts indicated that ? really ? just because I asked about the place then it means they were segregated, how logical.

and lol funny thing is that he said they WERE.... PAST...no longer there,
so in no way his post implies that he doesn't like it because of Jews.

he does NOT like the town itself there, as a geographical place, it's so clear O.o

you are reading the way, YOU want to read it, look at your post really.

oohh that's where they live. LOL who said that, you keep doing this, but why to stop you ?

I asked him about the place because in Saida there is :

HAret saida and
Tameer AL Harah

^
similar names, so was asking about the correct one.

What you feel, is not a fact and cannot be a fact, and in no way has anything to do with us.

Hands up, ofcourse, because once again you failed to make any sense.

Both comments indication that the two of you know this is a jewish comminity...

Lol okay Hellon :)

edit: I added :

"you know what we meant better than us, who said it, Long live the king"

:p !!

^^^^

You've edited your original post....

Edit:

Lol!!

I will add the edit word for you

I'm sorry. I meant: I don't "live" there. and not "like" there... oops.

No, they weren't segregated as my parents told me. In fact, they were neighbors of some of my parents' friends. (I wasn't alive back then to really know, but I only know about Christians. I have Christian friends and we live very near to them though some people live amongst them.)

Ms. Sunshine:
(for the rest, skip to the last para before the video/wikipedia links)
I enjoyed reading your answers, did learn a bit, but not the real answers that I was seeking. Nor did I write anything offensive to you or your beliefs to be berated the way you chose to answer my qns. Please read my posts again with a cool mind and try to understand why I am asking you these questions. You challenged me, chastised me, so I took the offer for a debate. I placed some rules at the beginning of the debate and have upheld my side, remaining totally respectful and desisted using any personally derogatory language. Yet you took my questions addressed to you to explain the verses in the Qu'ran that have fuelled controversy, and lambasted me as "racist, biased", and what not in your emotion filled last few posts. You even showed me your "pity"....does that mean I am so uneducated that I cannot learn the right thing? Is that really the right word to use in a philosophical debate if I were your opponent?

You should really watch the US Presidential or the recently concluded Vice-Presidential debates to see how 2 people, who fundamentally are polar opposites in their political philosophy, conduct themselves, without belittling each other or using condescending words. It might be worth it as your friends want to nominate you for President, and I will plead no-contest, as neither politics nor religion are my main interests.

I will also like to remind you that I have not shown any anger towards you or used any personally derogatory language whatsoever....yet you interpret my honest questions as cynical on a religion, which is unfortunate. But, let me assure you my only intent in this debate was to get a perspective from someone educated how these misguided people (Islamists, for want of better term, the Al Quaeda, Taliban, the Ayatollahs, the highly placed people in your religion...the Imam's in the current world) create/incite terror in the name of their peaceful religion the world over. What I am looking for is answers to the truth behind the incitement/excitement over these messages of Allah (holy texts) that they quote each time. You seem to interpret everything that I say as an assault on your religion/holy book....whereas I am only looking for answers to the reasons from an educated person to why are we in such a perilous state today in the world?

Also, you know very well that I have never shown disrespect to you or any of my other Muslim friends (if they still consider me as one) in my numerous conversations with you all. You interpret my arguments as if I am anti-Islam? If I was that "racist" and "biased", as you seem to allege, why would have I commented numerous times on your poems (some as a judge), and even write one inspired by one of your beautiful poems? Further, you have seen me talk so much about the philosophy of M.K. Gandhi, ML King and Nelson Mandela and like's who I idolize......The most peaceful religions in the world where any kind of war is "unthinkable" are Buddhism....the teachings of which are the one's in which I really believe in....and I am not even a Buddhist! So, if you sense sarcasm in my questions I am sorry, but what I am truly trying to learn is what is written in the Qu'ran or other holy texts that these radicals and many others use in their justification of attacks.....the latest being worldwide in protest of a film, which has little to do with Americans/Westerners or the way we perceive you. There has got to be an explanation, don't you think.......just look at this video below which brings me to tears, each time (the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddha's by Taliban, chanting holy words). And the same emotions I come away with each time when I visit beautiful ancient Hindu or Jain temples in India, 90 % of which been defaced (eyes, ears, or noses of the sculpted angels/Gods cut off) meticulously during the 500+ year Mughal rule during which much more happened in the name of Allah (Idolatry is forbidden in Islam is the only thing I know).

I just need an explanation from someone who really knows Islam to tell me why? Obviously your version of the holy book is either different (sanitized) than the one's that these crusaders have used, or maybe you interpret it differently and perhaps correctly. But, if Islam and its teachings were that simple the history of the lands that Islam has conquered in the last 2000 years would not be controversial at all. I would therefore really like to know that why do many in your religion carry out these acts? Why do they choose to destroy others faith in their God/s in the process of proving the supremacy of their belief's? Why? If I already knew the answers, I wouldn't be searching for them?.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYYBlPWYb7Y
(The destruction of the priceless Bamiyan Buddha's from the 6th century in the Bamiyan valley - Valley of the Gods to some during the Silk road days, a UNESCO cultural heritage site).

and to this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCrlsMHztbM&feature=relmfu

(^pay attention to the second half beginning 5.50 mts in to the recording)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_non-Muslim_places_of_worship_into_mosques

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus
------------------------------------------------------
and lastly Ms. Sunshine, I am seeking answers that relate to preachings from the holy text that has created these world events......so I would appreciate those answers. A cause-effect relationship. I am not contesting the word of the holy text or that I am an ignoramus, this I will take for granted without demanding proof. :)

-----------------------------------------------
Hellon: Your question "Totally give up on this....both posts indicated that the jews seemed to be segrigated...."

^What segregation Hellon?
There are no more Jews left in Lebanon (only 20-40 in 2008, and possibly close to Zero now) or for that reason most Arabic countries, they all fled from their homelands to a tiny corner in the Mediterranean Peninsula or to other countries, and the reasons.... you just have to read this article to find out for yourself. Their too they are under constant threat of being "annihilated" by the President of Iran, the Hezbollah and PLO (written in their charters). Start with the table with population listings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries
-------------------------------------------------------
and my friend Ben, unless you can offer real reasons for these past events of 2000 years, you might reserve your "Shaabaam" and "judgement (passive-aggressive)" on me to another appropriate thread. :)

There are no more Jews left in Lebanon

^^^^

Well there are at least two members here that I know of who live in Lebanon...both indicated that there were still jews living there to date so....let's have their say???

The rest of your post...also let them come forward with their thoughts...

and after they have...can I ask a question...Is the Islamic religion based on what the prophet Mohamed said ?

Hezbollah was not even born when Jews fled from Lebanon. It is Israel which prompted them to migrate there after the declaration of their right to return.

And I wonder why you are so sure of Wikipedia. It's nationally unaccepted to use it as a source of info for any project, essay, etc... I'm afraid, David, your God is just a place where anyone can post whatever he/she desires. (no pun intended)

^^^

and my question??

The old testament

Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

on and on it goes for each an every religion devised (fashioned by man for man) even Buddists... reading a couple years ago about two groups of monks having a disagreement that ended in rock throwing at each other.

But as indicated by Kevin, civilized man has moved beyond biblical garbage. Soon hopefully biblical crap also. People that hang onto a god fro an excuse to be kindly to fellow man are those who have a real problem interpreting life as it should be. I see no ass (donkey) in front of a donkey alter. Yet they live in solidified peace.

I didn't see any members, Hellon, who said there were still Jews living in Lebanon to date, at least not me :)

Islamic Religion is majorly based on the Quran. Then comes what the Prophet said.