Intelligent Chat: Stupidity

Firstly, I would like to point out to all you simpletons out there that this is a "CHAT" not an "ARGUMENT" ;)

Catch the sarcasm?

Anyway... I think that this conversation could be very interesting if people dont try to prove themselves and their intellects by arguing with each other, so I pose the questions:

Are there STUPID people? What makes a person stupid? What makes a person smart or intellectual?

I really like the second definition given at "merriam-webster.com" for STUPID:

"given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent or careless manner"

taking that definition, there are not "stupid" people. Just people that act stupidly.

Actually, I do believe that there are 'stupid' people that are just unintelligent in every aspect
(no, I don't mean the retarded :) )

I classify these people as the group who follow television (and such) as their culture.
Let me explain:
I don't know if any of you are aware that Paris Hilton has recently come out with an album...
Now any intellectual or somewhat intelligent person would know that Paris cannot sing, that she has no passion for the art of music or the arts in any case, and is only comming out with this deal because she's effing rich and feels like she want's to be a pop star.
But, there are going to be people who think "oh, well she's on the radio, she must be talented" and become screaming ranting fans hopping all over the place

My point: these people are the groups that think (and feel) what others tell them to. If people want drama, they create it. They can even make themselves fall in love because it's what everyone's singing about
They follow the trends that they used to hate, they get the hair do's, by the cd's, watch the O.C...

Now I don't mean that everyone who does these things and follows pop culture is stupid. But have none of you seriously met someone who is completly closed minded in exception to what television, radio, and friends tell them to be open to?

I think that what makes a person stupid is not having common sense or logic.

And I think that there are plenty of people out there who are "stupid" by that definition.

I think that every stupid person is "smart" in some arena, like Nada said. I also think that you can be taught to be "smart," for instance none of us would know English or math without being taught it at some point, yet we can be smart in those subjects.

Some people have natural adeptness or skill as well.

What makes a person "stupid" is not having the ability to handle life, the things that we ALL must deal with. Daily problems, common sense, like I said earlier.

Not ALL of us need be English professors or mathmatic masterminds- however, we all need to be able to live life, and lets face it, some people are more adept at it than others.

On the other hand, lots of "smart" people can be total idiots. It is very individual, and it is relative to the subject at hand and who the people around them are.

Pink, I dont even think that the people who follow pop culture and seem to have little interest in anything else are "stupid," I refer to those people as "average."

They are content with pop culture, beer, football and Nintendo games. They have no need to expand intellectually, because those subjects simply fall to the wayside. That doesnt make them "stupid," it makes them disinterested and stagnant in mental expansion. It is something they arent interested in, which is alright, everyone has to meet their OWN mental standard.

Well I think those people are indeed stupid because the way they choose to live their lives shows they cannot think for themselves.

Not to mention, in my opinion anyone who doesn't have the desire to expand their knowledge or intellectual state and hasn't the will to understand or be a significent part of our society is, in fact, stupid.

IF I were to ever try to become more like someone else, it would definetly be an intelligent, strong, significent person and I would decide to be more like that person based on my own values.

the people who I spoke of try to act like the people they see in 'da box' because they are told they are perfect people with no flaws and that they SHOULD be like them
(ex: the many celebrity fashion lines, perfumes, ect; "smell like britney spears" oooh that was my favorite add)

"I would say the people who can brainwash a mass are pretty darn smart"

Sadly, as do I.

Sidenote: neutrogena can't really apply because it's a product. What I am speaking of is culture that defines your personality and/or actions

If you would let me conduct an experiment mathematics logic and language
I have a riddle which is my own I will try to state the problem if it sounds stupid to you bear with me and just answer the question after I state the facts. True or false we at one time or another had a mother and father. True or false your mother had a mother and father true our false your father had a mother and father. To make it simple we all have two parents four grandparents eight great grandparents sixteen great great grandparents thirty two great great great grandparents granted this is a stupid question who would like to give me the variables in the chart that would prevent my ancestors from doubling as I go back another generation

Smart or intelligent people can do lots of harm, much more harm than stupid people because they have the mental capacity to be manipulative. Some of the greatest evil people of history (Hitler, Saddam, etc.) have been extraordinarily smart people.

Every 1 person must have a female and a male that procreated them- True.

Each generation that you go back you must add two people for every one that you currently have, which means that it will automatically double and there is no way around that.

The only variable that would change that is a scientific anomaly.

However, because there is always at some point a child born that has not procreated and paired to another person to do so, the chain of the entire equation doubling is paused and an odd number, because ultimately it is the sets of 3 that double, not one person.

A person who calls another person stupid, is basically baseing their accusation on their own level of intellegence, or what is displayed by the media as "smart". And it has been said in this forum that people who follow the media's culture are stupid, which is also another opinion based on what they have experienced. So the accusation of being stupid is based on the accusers opinon.

but thats just my opinion ;)

if you got lost there halfway through this, don't worry your not stupid( haha), I just am not very good at explaining my point.

I disagree with you.

That's my opinion.

Ahh, the Egyptians. I see them somewhat like the Atlanteans. I think that both ancient civilizations had "understandings" of things we dont yet grasp. I think that in some ways we have evolved mentally and in some ways we have regressed, but I blame religion and the self destruction of these civilizations from bygone era.

From a metaphysical perspective, religion has a huge part in the regression of consciousness, mental and spiritual. Religion has given us an excuse to stop growing and reaching for answers. It puts a cork on the unexplained and misunderstood, we no longer feel the need to seek spiritual or metaphysical understanding beyond religious limits.

Ever looked into sacred geomatry?

Of course not.

Is there such a thing as a stupid question? When I proposed that question to my brother in law he insulted me and told me it was a stupid question while he was fascinated by a football play that i am sure has happened over and over agian thank you all for participating in the experiment you are all intellegent i hope i spelled everything right lol

Obviously stupid cannot be confined to one definiton. It has become more of a general term that many things qualify for.
I like these intelligent chats, we'll have to start another one once we argue enough over this topic
:)

From a metaphysical perspective, religion has a huge part in the regression of consciousness, mental and spiritual. Religion has given us an excuse to stop growing and reaching for answers. It puts a cork on the unexplained and misunderstood, we no longer feel the need to seek spiritual or metaphysical understanding beyond religious limits.
Amen to that, but we are always going to have religions. In the places where religions are prohibitated are they not ruled by a dictactor?

"what if that same person is a guy who's the first in his class, you'll either say he's 'nuts' or generalize that his entire class is dumb because they have a guy like him in it who's in the top... "
BUT who ever said that being acedemically inclined makes you smart??

AND who ever said that a person cant be the first in his class and crazy??

there are loads of people who are crazy but are still "smart"

Does being smart mean you know a lot?
does it mean experience?

WHO THE HELL KNOWS??
If you look smart up in the dictionary, it says

"smart

smart [ smaart ]

adjective (comparative smart·er, superlative smart·est)

1. clever: showing intelligence and mental alertness
smart students

2. keen: shrewd and calculating in business and other dealings
a smart dealer

3. witty and amusing: amusingly clever and possessing a quick wit

4. insolent: disrespectful or impertinent
Whatever you say to him he has some smart answer.

5. tidy: with a neat and well-cared-for appearance

6. fashionable: fashionable and stylish
smart restaurants

7. lively: vigorous and brisk
a smart pace

8. stinging: causing a sharp stinging sensation
a smart slap

9. military laser- or radio-guided: used to describe a missile or weapon that is guided to its target by laser or radio beams

10. electronic engineering electronic: with a built-in microprocessor
smart traffic signals

intransitive verb (past smart·ed, past participle smart·ed, present participle smart·ing, 3rd person present singular smarts)

1. cause or have sharp pain: to feel, cause, or be the site of a sharp stinging pain
My hand smarts.

2. be embarrassed: to feel acute embarrassment or distress
She still smarted when she remembered his criticism.

3. be punished: to be punished severely

adverb

smartly: in a smart manner

noun (plural smarts)

1. pain: a sharp stinging localized pain

2. embarrassment or mental discomfort: a feeling such as embarrassment, remorse, or shame

plural noun smarts

intelligence: practical intelligence or expertise ( informal )
She has the smarts to succeed."

as you can see Smart is also a VERY general term.

maybe too general to generalize.

again, good point.

Nada God bless you I am not well versed in quantum physics and kaitlin and I are not in total agreement on how to view religion i strongly believe in humility but religion is still evolving I have studied the history of my faith and cannot deny that the authority of my church has done things to limit the progress of spiritual peace. I accept that God created the universe but the authorities through history have had a poor understanding of astronomy. people in history have not only been laughed at but severely punished for thinking. I understand what you are pointing at and I am in total agreement

sorry I've been gone a few hours, and I really am sorry because much of these replies are thoroughly thought out

Anyway, do continue whilst I attempt to read all I've missed and try to catch up on the convo...

"Superman, point made..

michael and katilin, i want you to ponder on the follwoing questions (they may seem dumb, but look closely at it)

. What was there before the univirse was made? how did the Big Bang start if there was nothing before it? going by the antimatter theory, shouldn't those two have exsited some place to cause the Big Bang, so what was before the unverse was made?

If you start thinking, you won't answer them, becuase our brain has a certain capability that we can't go past... do you understand what i'm pointing at?"

(I haven't read all the replies thoroughly so forgive me if I misinterpreted but I'm pretty sure you were justifying the belief in God?)

No offence Nada, but that comment often annoys me on account I've heard it sooooo many times when people are trying to prove God's existance.
If you are a believer and part of your faith is based on that idea, (as to what came before the universe and big bang) then great. What I don't like is when people try to use it as a factore in proving religion because even though we do not know what came before the big bang, that doesn't necessarily mean that there is indeed a God.
In case you couldn't tell, I'm not religous (but do respect those who are) and I believe there are countless numbers of what could have been before our earth was created.

Anyway, I just don't think that the "what came before earth" comment should be used either way (pro, or con) in the subject of religion because either argument is possible (hypathetically)

I love how people pick up connotations in blanket statements and get offended, then nit pick.

Seriously, my comments about religion werent targetting one. My statement is still 100% correct, "religion" has hindered development. I didnt say which one, dogma is what does it, and all religions have it. This isnt a religious argument, so lets not make it that, it's pretty self explanitory and anyone who disagrees with that is in denial. Know what denial stands for?

Dont
Even
Notice
I
Am
Lying.

And I am also a firm believer in the fact that given enough time we can solve any problem with an open mind (not one person, but humanity).

I dont believe there was ever nothing. I think that's hard to understand from a human perspective, "Of course there had to be nothing!!! It had to start somewhere!!" But I think that's wrong. I think of time and space as linear functions in which there is no beginning or end.

And there is no "capability that we cant get past" because that does not make sense.

Also, a lot of the biggest mathematical and artistic genius' in the world have been "nuts."

I'm going to be leaving and may not be back on until Monday, so please Nada and Pink, dont start fighting and get it locked, this is a good discussion ;)

plus its making this subject even more complicated then we need it to be.

I myself am catholic and beleive in god, but it annoys me when people use him as an excuse for everything because they are too lazy to have one philosophical thought in their brain, or they just are too ignorant to beleive anything else. The answer to controversy is GOD.Oh whatever this isnt a religion topic. Im talking too much.

Anyways, i dont think GOD should be brought into this subject even though that could be another possible argument.

oh and just to avoid more pointless argument, I was NOT directing any of this:
"but it annoys me when people use him as an excuse for everything because they are too lazy to have one philosophical thought in their brain, or they just are too ignorant to beleive anything else."

At anybody here, really i wasnt, i was just making a general statement.

Kaitlin Kristina is right we shouldnt waste such a wonderful intelligent chat.

All of the agnostics or atheist seem to have that one thing in common is not wanting to admit that anything is beyond the capacity of their own evolved brain. I was in the 'do you believe in God discussion' The arguement was always that to believe in something you don't understand is not logical yet much of what science claims to know is hypothesis. Science does not accept anything as proof without empirical evidence. So it is kind of stupid to pretend to know everything

quick note before we get back to subject:
michael, that makes no sense. If scientists base everything on logic and evidence, then wouldn't that mean their research and beliefs were indeed accurate?

I never intended to say that science is not accurate but what most do not understand is that faith is above logic and reason. The scientist that said God did not meet the empirical evidence also agreed that science cannot prove that anything does not exsist.

mmm see I disagree with that, and I do have points to make but perhaps you and I should participate in another forum relating to religion, for I fear if I converse with you more we will go too far off topic

So anyway,
Do continue with the original topic

satin my father used to say that there is no disgrace in being stupid it is just unhandy as hell. of course he laughed when he said that. After I was humilited by a teacher of mine I QUOTED MY FATHER. HE WAS NOT AMUSED.

I think in the semantics of this discussion that is a very important point many who have the ability to understand are just to lazy to think

Can we all remember the original post of this thread where Kaitlin asked us not to try and prove or test ours, or anyone elses intelligence in this discussion, but merely to discuss the topic at hand.

We humans love to measure and quantify things. It's one of the ways we make ourselves safe from the dark uncertainty of the unknown. And so it is with intelligence. Given how little we understand about the human brain and how it really works, which is the darkness i spoke of, we "invent" ways to tally it's productivity, processing speed, recall and all manner of other things. What does all this mean to the average person who might be called stupid by someone else, or even by a test?

We still don't know enough about how the brain works.

I don't look at any part of a natural organism and call it useless or stupid unless it serves no purpose. And so it is with intelligence in other people. If someone can't count, read or write....but maybe has a gift for working with children or animals...or perhaps is an amazing artist...or like many "smart " people, hasn't found their gift yet, who am I to quantify the worth or intellence in such a life?

No one i've ever met has such an understanding, least of all any of you.

So i have a question then,

I'll use drm's example

"But, if I saw someone trying to put their socks on after they put their shoes on, I would find that extremly interesting.... and if they acomplished the feat , I would find that absolutly ..".stupendous.."

(not direct towards drm just got and idea from your example)

So things that are outrageous, or out of the ordinary and may seem a little nutty sometimes, like putting your socks on over your shoes, makes a person crazy or stupid? Is someone called stupid because they go between the fine line standards that we live by today?

What about the people who limit themselves to a certain degree of intellect?

No doubt I think everyone has the capacity to expand their knowledge, but what of those who care not to?
These people I think are stupid.

I sort of discussed this earlier, but anyway, think of the people who are only concerned with the material or surface of things, not interested in the depth of a subject or even our world within itself. Don't you think these people are stupid enough not to care or be interested with the signifigence of our society or not posess the momentum to recieve knowledge of opinion or idea?

The people who look at the arts and say "that doesn't matter" or don't care to look at humanity and how we have become who we are (and other such things: war, universe, you name it) I think are qualified to be considered stupid.
Honestly, people who don't have the desire to discuss, debate, or have anything to do with a subject outside of their own lives are stupid.

summed up: people with no desire to expand; closed minded

Yes I agree with pink we all have opinions and i would like to think that I am not trying to create anyone in my image and likeness. The wires connect our thoughts I question everything for the porpose of improving my mind.

It really does depend on the accusers personal experiences of stupidity and what they have been taught about what stupidity is.

I disagree with matt

and i completley agree with pink.
but to someone else that might not be the case,
stupid is a very versatile word, used much to commonly among people today.
Plus, usually when someone calls somebody stupid, it is jokingly and they dont really mean it.
but then again, this is of only MY experiences of stupidity.
See that is why I say if someone accuses another of being stupid, it is based on the accusers past experience and knowledge of stupidity.

Wow im argueing with myself stop me now...

SUPERMAN SOMETIMES I HAVE TO PUT A LOCK ON ME WHEN I ARGUE WITH MYSELF

haha

please don't get me wrong nada I still consider myself a catholic and the pope cleared Galileo of the charges of heresy. we also are not launching any crusades to take back the holy lands. the greeks knew about the atom thousands of years ago. religion is a powerful tool yet only a path to truth.