What makes us ...

Feelings & emotions, thats what I think, though I can say I' ve met many people in my life that have no feelings.

From an evolutionary point of view I cannot imagine a single turning point in generations of Homo sapiens where a human was born from a nonhuman. We belong to the animal kingdom. I, as a spiritual being, believe I belong to another kingdom.

I have two small dogs that seem to have the emotions and passions that humans have. For example no matter how much dog food I feed them they beg for foods that they like better. Pavlov linked animal behavior to human behavior by experimenting with conditioned reflex. But I believe we as humans can become what we believe. My dogs respond to affection much like a human child. They seem to show shame when they have done wrong. Fear when in danger. Anger, greed, lust envy. gluttony pride. laziness. Which is the nature of man. We can overcome by following a master

Great minds have also debated on when a human fetus has the rights that all humans have

In my genealogy book are lots of images of humans that have long since past. I have an image of a human that I placed in there before she was born. The image is dated 9/29/99 an ultrusound of my great niece who was born Feb the 2nd/ 2000. The records of her ancestry was an insignificant fraction of the infinite things that made that image possible

Most creatures follow natural laws. Social animals live in communities such as packs, herds, and flocks and so on. When the environment becomes unhealthy the group usually follows a leader to lead them to a more favorable environment. As we can imagine that Moses said to Aaron as he led his people out of slavery; gather your flock and let’s get the flock out of here. We as humans live in spiritual environments

I don't claim to have the answers, but I think that one thing that humans might define in themselves as a species is the striving to be more than human.

There is an old Indian saying that in every man there are two wolves. One hungers for virtues the other hungers for vices. Only one can survive................. The one we feed the most

Question for evolutionist who deny the existence of intelligent design; when the first primate began to straiten his back and hold his head high do you believe it was a conscious choice by the ape that was latter passed to its offspring, or was it a law of nature that evolved the creature?

The ability to ask questions.. and find answers..?

Im tired!! Anyways what really separates us from animals is the ability to ask questions and find answers so I guess In some way that makes us human?

We are "human" only because someone decided to call our species by that name.

We are nothing but animals, more complex perhaps than your average gerbil, but animals all the same.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is not very observant.

I agree...we are human because...we are humans...simply biological...

Lets examine all of the technical advances in the last hundred years of evolution. Can anyone name another animal that has advanced its building skills at a higher rate than the human animal? Can anyone tell me of a species that could threaten the entire ecosystem of this planet? I see no value in humility that does not surrender to a higher power. Anthropologist believe that we stand upright because our ancestors chose to stand and passed it on. I believe every human inherits dignity, value, and worth. Yes’ humans are the most dangerous animals on this planet. That is why I believe a man has a much higher moral responsibility than a gerbil ‘Hunt's postural feeding hypothesis asserts that arboreal food gathering postures of arm-hanging and vertical climbing, a shared adaptation and postural specialization of apes, are sufficiently common to influence anatomy’ In summary I believe the animals need to free his hands stimulated its brain to find a solution. The solution was to stand. Standing caused physical changes in the creature’s anatomy. The mind is the source of the cause. Adaptation is the effect. In my theory evolution is an effect not a cause. Even if I put my foot in my mouth it cannot change my mind

Does anyone in this discussion believe humans have an immortal soul?

Micheal.

It is a mistake for humans to seperate themselves from the animal kingdom because we are more complex in our technology, or communication.

I understand, as a religious fellow, you are coming from the point of view that we are divine above all other beings on the planet...that we are meant to be above them and masters of them.

It's just not true though. No more true to say that a maggot is any less divine than a Dolphin in terms of complexity and the ability to communicate. Or that in terms of using tools and the ability to destroy with intentions, that a monkey is any less divine than a pet turtle.

The more we seperate ourselves from our animal natures, the more psychological and social problems we cause ourselves, with the main two being sexual and agression issues.

We pretend we don't want to have forceful hard sex with random people on the street that we see, religion tells us this is wrong, and the work of the devil. But it is not, is it perfectly natural...and if you accept that fact and work with it without becoming feral, you'll be a much happier human being...and so with any partners you have. * wink wink*

Micheal.

’It is a mistake for humans to seperate themselves from the animal kingdom because we are more complex in our technology, or communication.’

In my opinion the natural is a fragment of the supernatural animals are not unnatural and an important part of the ecosystem

’I understand, as a religious fellow, you are coming from the point of view that we are divine above all other beings on the planet...that we are meant to be above them and masters of them’.
that is correct

It's just not true though. No more true to say that a maggot is any less divine than a Dolphin in terms of complexity and the ability to communicate. Or that in terms of using tools and the ability to destroy with intentions, that a monkey is any less divine than a pet turtle'.
I was taught that every man is created in the image and likeness of God. In our current legal systems, at least in the country I live in, more value is placed on human life

’The more we seperate ourselves from our animal natures, the more psychological and social problems we cause ourselves, with the main two being sexual and agression issues’.

I strongly disagree. In my opinion the human animal is capable of greater evil than any other. Most animals only kill for food, or to protect their territory. When mankind, or a man truly accepts His divine nature, faith, hope and love replace doubt, despair, and hate
A man truly accepting of a Higher Power has no desire to harm himself, our his fellow man. To err is human to forgive divine

’We pretend we don't want to have forceful hard sex with random people on the street that we see, religion tells us this is wrong, and the work of the devil. But it is not, is it perfectly natural...and if you accept that fact and work with it without becoming feral, you'll be a much happier human being...and so with any partners you have. * wink wink*’

Some diseases are caused by, ‘perfectly natural,’ microorganisms. Some diseases are caused by over indulgences in natural and unnatural substances. But no man connected to His divine nature seeks disease.
Kevin please do not hate me. I am just a drunk whom relies on a HIGHER POWER to stay sober. As much as I love the ‘self abusers’, I do not believe self abuse is natural, or healthy

"I was taught that every man is created in the image and likeness of God. In our current legal systems, at least in the country I live in, more value is placed on human life"

I'm very aware of what you've been taught Micheal, i'm more interested in what you've learned however. I don't like communicating with you when all i get is the bible line on things, i don't feel like i'm speaking with a real person. And i wasn't speaking about the value of humans Vs animals. Of course i value my own species more than another, but i know that we are all still animals...we eat, breed, fight, die, fear and care just like every other critter out there. The notion we are superior and removed from nature is one we have only because we are wrapped up in the comforting arms of technology. Take all that away and we are animals.

You say that to forgive is divine, yet you have a wrathful old testament God and a rather unpleasant Hell for those who don't get water dropped on their heads or who have a little sex outside marriage. God can't be very divine now can he.

You didn't actually address my point about the repression of our animal desires, but thats ok, because another one of them is fear, and i sense much fear in you. So you turned to God to help yourself quit drinking? Thats great man, i understand having had parents who were both alcoholics how desperately they needed something to believe in. You filled the whole with something else, something better....just don't let it be your filter for everything that comes your way.

Good luck to you.

I have learned that I am being perceived as dogmatic when all I want to do is share what I have witnessed in the form of spiritual healings. Before I came to this site I never realized there were so many depressed young people. I know we are not supposed to talk about beauty in these discussions because poetry is an art, and art is beauty. If I were to describe a spiritual healing to you accurately you would accuse me of posting a poem in the wrong forum. You are constantly presenting your, doubt in the Supreme Being, as virtue, that will overcome any sorrow. You are placing all your faith in human beings you say are nothing more than animals. You say all that we know about God comes from the bible yet you become upset when people quote the bible even when the discussion is subjective. Has it ever crossed your mind that the wisdom of a bible quote might be poetic?

. 'The notion we are superior and removed from nature is one we have only because we are wrapped up in the comforting arms of technology'
Who said we were removed from nature?.

If technology is so comforting why am reading so many depressed poems
Seems a lot of humans have wholes that need filling.. don;t take that the wrong way *wank wank*

Jesus used parables often. It is obvious they were not intended to be historically accurate but they had a true moral

There is an old quote:

"To er is human. To forgive, divine."

What makes us human is that we all make mistakes whether we like it or not, no one is perfect. But we will keep on trying!

The second part of the quote is seldom accomplished well by us.

What makes me human? After a day like this, a Jack and Coke...

God created us in his image, and gave us a soul.
Apart from that, were a bit more than flesh and bones...

Micheal. All you seem to know about God comes from the bible, or is filtered through the words and rules of the bible, I feel you don't often speak your own wisdom in regards these things, or when you do it's the exact word of the good book, and so not really your opinion. So when i berate you for quoting the bible, it's because i don't think you are thinking for yourself, and i especially don't think you are listening to me in an open minded way, though of course you would most likely say the same about me.

I do not doubt God as such, i doubt the version of him presented in the bible, and i actively dislike the Catholic Church and all it's little offshoots.

I didn't mean technology has eased all our spiritual and emotional ills, i meant only that in reference to what we are talking about, i believe that technology has tricked us in believing we are removed from nature and not animals anymore...like a monkey couldn't work email given the right training.

As long as there are aspects of our personalities that are repressed, we will never be happy.

I don't think religion and the denial of our animal origins and urges, helps this.

Kevin I do not understand your wisdom when it comes to human religion, or politics I seem to misinterpret your simple statements such as ‘God can't be very divine now can he.’ The God that I have a personal relationship with is very forgiving. Here in Tennessee we have zoos for humans that are not able to deny animal urges. We call these zoos prisons, and I understand other states have them too. Anyway I have experienced that urge which is more prevalent among the prideful human animals that causes loss of freedom. I talked to a woman who was in one of the above mentioned facilities this morning. She said she really wanted to read the book I sent to the prison but had to wait for her turn. I have corresponded with many of these prisoners whom have hope that a higher power can restore their human dignity. There is no way I can say what I want to say because of man-made rules. Maybe I do not express my true feelings because the truth is suppressed. I don’t feel like a real person because I do find security in popular quotes that is why I do like to quote popular poets
Kahlil Gibran said if you told the truth for five minutes your companions would leave.
Ten minutes you would be exiled
Fifteen and you would be hanged
I believe there is objective evidence that the bible was written by a human animal. I also believe objective evidence shows that the social problems that the author wrote about actually existed. As a Christian my salvation does not depend on history but moral truth which is subjective
When I referred to the bible in this discussion it was not meant to be an exact quote . ‘As we can imagine that Moses said to Aaron as he led his people out of slavery; gather your flock and let’s get the flock out of here’ that in reality was only implied in the bible I thought someone would catch the humor

I am sorry that you are offended by quotes from the book, that the 'Guiness Book of World Records' lists as the most widely distributed book in the world. I have no more desire to separate myself from the human animal than you have to separate yourself from a maggot. Without unity we are no more powerful than one member of a virus. The creator does not separate from the creation without breaking laws

But remember, Ismail, there are babies that haven't yet developed the intelligence of a dog, but nevertheless are still human.

-beth

so much philosophy and ethics and morals could go into this answer that its quite overwhelming.

what makes us human? we do.

But who are we? When did we make ourselves, and how long did it take us? Remember what we said about the alpha and omega? Doesn't everything have to be logical ? What if we disagreed while we were making ourselves? For every answer there is a question. Are we the cause or effect? Are we all the humans yet to be conceived. Did we conceive our fore Fathers?
The answer was and always will be greater than ourselves

In truth we depend on each other to live life the best way we can.’ We’ is the key word. I want to thank you for this great topic because I have believed that evolution, and adaptation is an important part of life. The concept of the mind changing the anatomy of the creature that needed to free his hands to gather food made me think of the great power of the mind. Every time that I have believed I was in love physical changes occurred. The last time I lost 30 lbs in three months. The object of my desire drove me bananas, and my body chemistry changed. I suppose a physician would say it was in my mind. A poet would say it was in my heart, and a theologian would say it was in my soul. Who cares?
I think the humans that believe in love should care. I have learned from that experience that you can’t make someone love you. All you can do is stalk them and hope they give in, but seriously I believe that all humans have the power to accept, or reject LOVE
He Cares

The personification of Love

Quote 'Our humanity were a poor thing were it not for the divinity which stirs within us' Bacon

Yes ismail I believe that humans have two natures one is innate the other is accepted or learned behavior
The principles of divinity should always, in my opinion, be associated with virtues and good orderly direction The animal nature that is in us has a natural desire to be the alpha. Hate is a learned behavior. Although I admit there is unexplained hostility in dogs, and other animals, hatred is not proven to be innate. Example my Chihuahua exhibits no hostility to cats. My other little dog enjoys intimidating cats. The souls of an animal are dependant upon the bodily organism, which they determine and actualize. The human soul is endowed with the capacity for great intellect and will. Many believe the human soul can survive outside of the body. Of course that cannot be proven objectively. Subjectively when a man has a love for the human race and is willing to sacrifice, his soul is stired by God. It is difficult for me to imagine how humans could be so cruel to humans. History has shown humans to be capable of, suicide homicide, genocide and even Deicide. I think these things are not from the divinity which stirs within us' Every man or woman must accept a divine nature to overcome human animal nature or even unatural behavior

Yes I think I get the picture, but doesn't that suggest that adaption is the effect of the mind? I need some thoughts on the soul. The soul is our essence.

Animals have ranks. George Orwell wrote a book titled'Animal Farm'. Implying that all animals are created equal but some are more equal than others

Attitude, or latitude, ascending to the truth, or descending from the truth, passage to paradise, or trapped in our own hell, it seems desire for good is the essence of higher creatures. The cause of evil is good.

The terrorist that killed so many innocent people thought and believed that this act would take them to their eternal reward. They believed they were seeking a higher good by harming themselves, and others. Yet unity is the path to peace

I recently served on a jury. A woman was in a car accident, and suffering from migraine headaches, of which she did not have before the accident. The lawyer that was defending the person who admitted fault, pointed out that there was no objective evidence that she had headaches. Although a physician was giving her shots to relieve migraine headaches the MRI’S and x rays showed only slight abnormality. We heard a lot of subjective testimony on how her behavior had changed.
I don’t want to be disrespectful to the author of the article link posted above. But he left out the heart. He only discussed the soul spirit and mind. The author seemed very scientific and skeptical that anything could exist that was not concrete. He speculated that the last breath was observed as the division between life and death. Like the many poetic verses in the bible which linked the physical to the psychical. He could just as easily reduced the tears of the mourners to a chemical reaction. He could come up with a theory as how emotion evolved because many people still believe sorrow is real. This discussion reminded me of the question Dylan ask in the song Blowin in the Wind ‘How many roads must a man walk down before you call him man.’ each verse ends with the answer is blowing in the wind. You may or may not find it interesting that the Holy Spirit is symbolized by at least three ancient elements. Wind water, and fire, I am well aware of the errors in science that the ancients made I could write a book on that. The astrologers in the bible were very well versed in other ancient sciences. Science is the observation of natural phenomenon. The story of the child that the wise men sought changed the world. Many wise men still seek Him in the year of our Lord 2005
Just another way to view reallity personally I think there could be a better balance of the heart soul and mind through attitude if nothing else

"Many wise men still seek Him in the year of our Lord 2005"

Too bad for them that everyone does not

’About the heart - isn't that related to the mind, soul and spirit? Do you think our emotions come literally from our heart? Because I don't think so. It's just a poetic way of trying to make sense out of it’

I don’t believe our emotions come from the muscle that is as essential to our life as breath I believe that chemicals are released from the brain which is stimulated by emotion that can affect that muscle. Who among us has not felt pain in that part of our body from emotion. I have observed changes in attitude that halted destructive behavior. These changes were in spiritual therapy I believe it is difficult to separate the heart from the mind at times, that is why we see such passion in these discussions

From my observation it is more important to seek a divinity of your own understanding.

Many behavioral scientist can understand the healing power of forgiveness and love

For every spiritual or energy based sensation or experience, there is of course a physical counterpart, otherwise we'd never be able to experience it in our bodies.

So love, which I like to think of as divine, or at the very least a higher psychological response, must of course have chemical reaction, this does not mean it is that only.

All the paranormal experiences i've had have included physical sensations, or at least, physical sensations processed by my body.

micheal there are enough questions in this thread without you posting whole collections of them as a abstract answer to a previous one...it dilutes the purity of any answers we might come close to.

And it confuses the crap out of me!!

These are a few quotes from a the article which you referred me to Angelina

‘ so too we can alter the functioning of the brain only so much before the process called "mind" or "thinking" becomes altered out of existence
I can see how that could be useful lol

‘We can cause to appear the emotions of rage, sexuality, sorrow, religious awe, etc., by altering the dynamic functions of the brain in appropriate ways’
confused?

The author insists he is full of nothing but I think the author is full of something

It is not my intention to confuse any farther the essence of one whom proclaims the divinity of a maggot

Ha, you are a funny guy Micheal, a real comedian.

Check out if you will, the Derren brown program called "Messiah" and you will see just how easy it is to convert someone, particularly when they are unhappy with their life in some way, say an addiction or death of a loved one.

Very interesting stuff.

You'll find your answers in the Bible. Study it carefully whenever you can.

hey people i think...i dunno if it count..lolz...neway i think what makes us human is our feelings...and our bit more clever brain then animals..i aint saying animals are not that clever...no offence to animals..but i think its the feelings and emotions that make us human...and also the more humanly look, being able to stand on 2 feet...not walking on fours or threes..lol

This inevitably raises issues about how we do evangelism and how we affirm conversion.
· To what extent does the power of suggestion alone influence people to commit to God/projects/church etc?
Kevin I believe I read the article with an open mind. Unfortunately my mind was altered out of existence from Angelina’s article lol I have the flu

I believe in the power of suggestion, but I believe the power of truth is constant