De vinci code ????

"Suicide is a mortal sin"

aren't they all?

Nope

Unforgivable by God?

But God is all-forgiving.

If you're repentant of your sins. The penetant man kneels before God.

How can you repent suicide?

Also if God was all forgiving why is there a heaven and a hell?

Glass, just letting you that I am still patiently waiting for your logical response to the'contradictions'. I know it may take time as there are a lot of them, but better to give you a little nudge than forget about it, eh?

well, not everybody believes in Hell

well, not everyone believes in the bible, but that's what we're discussing.

So my response is:

Your point is?

Hey beautiful it doesn't matter if you belive in Hell. That doesn't make it any less real.

If i didn't believe in gravity, and i jumped off a building it wouldn'y change reality....

Yes brett answers are coming...i think you will be pleased :) be prepared for more discussing.

And yes i have enjoyed this discussion very much. I appreaciate your lack of vulgarity to. Everyone i've discussed the bible with has had to throw in some cuss words...pointless

Suicide:

Those who are adamant that a person who takes his life is commiting a mortal sin, and will go to Hell, are basing their beliefs on church doctrine rather than on the Bible. Scripture is silent on the subject. There are no verses that say He who takes is own life shall be damned. According to Scripture, only one sin is unforgivable, and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That means there is forgiveness for every other sin.

Some quote 1 Corinthians 3:17, which says that God will destory those who defile the temple of the Holy Spirit. Yet, there is disagreement about what it mean to defile the temple. Does is include suicide? Does it include illicit drug abuse(slow suicide), prescription drug abuse, cigarettes(deliberatly inhaling poisons that will eventually kill), tattoes, over-eating(digging your grave with your spoon), or alcohol abuse.

God forbid that we add to the pain of someone who has lost a loved one through the tragedy of suicide, by making a judgement about their eternal destiny. God is the ultimate Judge, and we should therefor leave the issue in His hands. It would be wise to follow the biblical example and not come to any verdict in the case of suicide.

I would relate directly to the ten commandments on this subject.

Thou shalt not kill.

Literally it's impossible simply because we have to kill to survive whether it be through animals or plants or both.

So it comes down to killing people. If killing someone else is a sin, then surely killing yourself is one too.

I have found this an instrumental point in suicide prevention, which in nearly all cases is a permanent solution to a temporary setback.

So on one side I agree, it should be left in God's hands. On the other it helps prevent people making a pointless mistake.

My personal view can be shown by quoting Carter:

Suicide isn't painless, it hurts like hell.
It's set aside for the famous, in their little suicide cells.

And nothing lasts forever, but nothing ever did.
It's big but it's not clever and it's really not that big.

So no more tears, you're a big boy now.
We'll have a few more beers and sort it out somehow.

idk, I figure, if a person is in the situation where they would commit suicide, they've already been through a kind of hell...and I just have a hard time thinking that an all-forgiving God would say, "Okay, I know you've had a pretty rough life, but you're going to hell."

and many people and religions that believe in the bible don't believe in Hell.

I just scrolled back up and realized this thread started out about the Da Vinci Code.

Yep, it did. But the Da Vinci code isn't anywhere near as intriguing.

OK, my theory on heaven and hell:

You can't have one without the other because there would be no incentive to do right if you knew that it didn't matter what actions you took in life.

Live a life devout, faithful and by the word of God: Heaven!

Don't really live a religious ligfe but you mean well and feel bad when you bugger up: Heaven!

Be a selfish fool, lie cheat steal what you want when you want: Heaven!

Kill a few people for shits and giggles and wear their heads as hats: Heaven!

If there is no hell and you kow that God will forgive you the what's the point of religion?

See what I mean?

(Awaits the limbo/purgatory stuff)

If you want to quote The Commandments don't leave stuff out. It's not only killing in a physical sence, but the bible tells of if we hate someone we've already killed them in our hearts.

HATE=MURDER!

Also Salvation isn't something you can loose. If your truley saved and you kill yourself I'm almost certain that God will not damn you. However if someone trusts God as savior for his own purposes...say accept Christ to go out and kill someone. Then God sees your shelfish motives. It's one thing to say you believe in God and trust Jesus, but we have to turn from our sins and live for Jesus. That is true repentence.

You cannot compare anything on this Earth to the eternal torments of Hell. What you see in hollywood doesn't even begin to capture the horror that is hell. If you want just a small glipse of what Hell is. Set your house on fire stand in the middle. That's not counting the eternal torment that will await those who choose that path.

Beautiful God will never say that. If you don't acknowledge him as Lord of your life, and have a healthy relationship with him. On judgement day this is what he'll say.

DEPART FROM ME I NEVER KNEW YOU.

I disagree.

The incentive to do good in this life would still be present. Our human loneliness is reason enough.

Reason enough for who, Lie? Just yourself?

You're right, it SHOULD be reason enough, but it rarely is. Do all teenagers do their homework, keep their rooms tidy and take the trash out every thursday because they should? No they don't, and mostly only do so because they are threatened with punishment, time outs, loss of privelidges etc. It shouldn't be needed but unfortunately the world doesn't work like that.

Why do lower class unemployed (and some employed) people resort to crime instead of taking a job they don't really want to do to provide for thier family? It's easier to sell crack or become a car thief.

In a utopian society we'd all believe the same thing (religious or not), live under a benevolent dictatorship and pay our taxes on time. Right now we believe in everything from nothing to a pantheon of gods, live in various forms of morally corrupt government, mostly democracies, and avoid paying taxes whenever possible.

Order is what makes life utopian. The knowledge of and subserviance to right and wrong, black and white, action and consequence, heaven and hell. It's about balance, tip the scales and you get chaos. We shouldn't need it, but we can't live in a structured society without it.

''...Have you guys even read the book?

If you have do you know anything about what it was talking about. The De Vinci Code is the biggest bunch of bull poo i ever read....I read the book and seen the movie. Are youth pastor encouraged us to. Anyways do some research and tell me if you agree with it.
''

Hahaha, have YOU read the book? It's Da vinci, not De vinci.

Congratulations.

And to everyone else who thinks it's all real, it's a fiction book, heck, there is even an illustrated version..And also, if it WAS true, Dan Brown would get his behind sued by the hand makers of the bible, ha, for his story denying anything the Roman Catholic church said..think. Also, it is a plot made to create controversy. Controversy=Cash.

Do we have a winner?

Justin, stop acting like you know how the world works. you have no idea what you're talking about.

The Roman Catholic Church are not the sole handmakers of the Bible. Though I'm fair sure no one has Copyright to it. In the same way no one can copyright history. There are too many who had a hand in it.

That being said, Dan Brown was sued by two authors Baigent and Leigh of a book written in the 80s discussing the exact same idea. And, yeah, Dan Brown does 'steal the architecture of their book' but it apparently didn't matter to the judge, who ruled in favor of Mr. Brown because he wrote fiction. Baigent and Leight were claiming fact, and as said before, no one can copyright history.

Bret: Teenagers do grow up and learn eventually. okay, most people.

Bumpety bump for glass, still waiting on your reply to the contradictions, old chap.

You said they would be surprising, so dazzle me.