Some Questions...for everyone BUT the Mods.

So, we are no longer free to openly question the Rules and Regulations of our beloved Poetry site? The propensity of various Guidelines is not up for discussion? All divergence must take place in the confidentiality of Private Messages, where a Mod is permitted leeway to demoralize our fellow members. I have been victim of inequitable treatment, notable in Private Messages, numerous times. "Jane, because it is YOU, you will not be penalized." If I am seated at the upper end of the Poems-and-Quotes totem, who is drowning at ground level? If you love this website as much as I do, then you surely recognize that we cannot tolerate the abdication of our right to have a civil debate, as to what is ethically right and what is overwhelmingly wrong. I must ask, what form of totalitarianism are our Mods enforcing, when discourse amongst the mass is no longer permissible, and dispute must be held in seclusion? Please, I am very interested in each member's opinion.

Join me in witnessing this thread's unsolicited Moderation infestation, leading to its ultimate deletion. Or maybe [Locked] will be its only penalty ;) However, this predilection will save us from said occurrence, eh?

My opinion is thus:

I like this site for one[okay, maybe two] reasons only.
I like putting my poems up.
&
I like talking to the people in the fantabulous club. [[That includes you, dearest.]]
Beyond that, though, skru it[[[<<was that genius or what?]]]
I think we should be provided with unlimited rights.
I wanna run naked through the forums and sing loudly. Or poke people with sporks and harass little children.
This is the internet. If you can't handle it, get out. [Aw, wow, I sound awful =[ ...]

I don't really care that much, I guess. I dunno. I don't really talk in the general forums much anymore. I'm too busy with REAL NON-INTERNET LIFE to commit all my time to you losers.
=P

Could anyone point me in the direction of a list of words we AREN'T allowed to use?

I'd be very interested in seeing which are considered inappropriate.

Yeah, I guess I don't really care that much about whatever the hell I wrote in my last post, but hey...The main forum needed some spicing up. And I think what I said is true, even if unimportant. It was kinda fun to write too.

Umm... what'd I miss??? Do I need to go back to my house to get my helmet and sword (its plastic but it looks awesome when I stick it in my belt of my jeans and run at people screaming like a crazy lady). Well... do I need to get it?

WHO's responsible for this injustice against my Janey, horse lovers of all horse lovers? I shall spray them with gold dust scrapped from my righteous rectum. :)

The practice of locking threads seems to be uncontrolled and questionable. I can understand locking, in two situations:

1.) A thread is too long, namely over 100 posts. In this case, a new thread can simply be opened up, if its contributers wish to continue.

2.) A thread contains obvious attacking remarks against a certain individual or group.

And no. "Attack" doesn't mean questioning the basis of an opinion, or even more provocative remarks. Attack would be statements aimed at a person with no relevance to the argument, and generally containing things like vulgarity. Of course, that's just my definition. I would love to see the leaders of this site come up with their own -specific- guidelines, so that we all know what's within the rules and what isn't.

I have seen far too many threads locked purely to shut down a provocative discussion. To say "this thread has run its course" implies that ALL members agree that there is nothing more to be said. Unfortunately, this is not often the case (as is obviously so when more threads must be opened for people to continue to speak their opinions..)

So, what I'd like to see in a site:

1. Clear and specific rules describing the rights of users and mods, so that exaggerations and over-extension of subjective power is limited.

And, more importantly,

2. A site welcoming of all opinions, even... -especially- the dissenting ones. Without people to push the questionable issues, and challenge the norms, things can hardly be expected to be fair.

Doesn't sound too bad, mm? For some excellent, rational ideas for number 1, see Kevin Murray's thread entitled "Moderator Rules and Guidelines."

If you even so much as state that you may have an opinion against a mod has, the thread is put in the trash can.
woolah, jane. WOOLAH.

Sibyllene, you're an angel.

Ehh, I haven't really been following how the mods handle things in threads. The only thing I don't really like about the mods is that when the chat room was up. They would pick on the new members and praise the more regulars and friends.

The regular ones could get away with saying a lot of things but if a newbie were to say something that was wrong they were booted,banned for a day and whatever.

I'm just saying that when the chat room is back up, they should stop doing that and work with everyone evenly instead of booting the newer members out so easily and letting everyone else get away with things. That's not being a mod.

I have seen far too many threads locked purely to shut down a provocative discussion. To say "this thread has run its course" implies that ALL members agree that there is nothing more to be said. Unfortunately, this is not often the case (as is obviously so when more threads must be opened for people to continue to speak their opinions..)

^lol, that handy line that every moderator uses when most of the time there's an unfinished argument still going.

the thing i hate is the way that if somebody even mentions a rule being updated, or challenging a mod, 2+ moderators will come in and blast them out. you mention the obvious disadvantage we get amongst moderators, like Kevin's argument against Ann, and Sherry comes out with 'tone it down'. what exactly are we toning down here? any freedom we have to a right of opinion? they ask you to notch it down to the point where your argument no longer exists and then the thread has RUN ITS COURSE.

I vote we gather some data.
Everyone find a thread and DISAGREE with every mod you find.

Yay!

I thought about that, actually. But asking "why don't you just go somewhere else" is like saying "hey, you don't like America, why don't you just move to Canada?" Fair enough, but it's not just for myself that I think the rules are unfair. My "moving to Canada" would in no way benefit the people left behind, who would still be expected to exist under questionable conditions. Rather, it seems much more sensible to try and do my part to work within the system that troubles me, and help bring it to a more balanced, free, healthy place.

Besides.. rather than there being no rules, they should just be limited and logical, and clearly defined, shouldn't they? And perhaps agreed upon? That would be nice.

No, but we can consider the majority. I prefer a democracy over dictatorship. We are freedom fighters indeed...but are you? Sibyllene, leave it to you to write exactly what needs to be written. You go, girl! Hahaha.

Running away would seem a pity.

I agree with Jane that it would be unlikely if we could have specific rules that everyone on this site agreed with. I mean, if we could accomplish that, then we're sitting on gold that would do better outside this little miniverse, mm? : )

However, as she says, if everyone could at least get involved in the formation of rules, then it seems like there would be fewer discrepencies in their following. If people make rules, they seem more likely to abide by them.

There will always be minorities, however, and these are perhaps more important even than the majorities. How a system treats its minorities says loads about the system itself. So... tolerate strange, crazy opinions, and appreciate them for what they are: essentital agents in a working system.

Before even getting to this point, however, it would be amazingly beneficial to have an atmosphere that would be willing to embrace and tolerate even the suggestion of changes. Leaders who seem to flee from even a hint of confrontation seem to me to be compensating for something...

What are your thoughts on all this, Illumnati?

Thanks for your response, Illuminatix : ) I appreciate it.

I agree that it would be excellent if members were respectful, and I hope that nothing otherwise has been shown in this business here. Respect ought to be given... where it is due. Mods have a hard job, I wouldn't dream of denying it. I can't even imagine the annoying things they have to deal with. But... arrogance is not a valid excuse for banning someone. As long as the offending members are not flinging random, thoughtless, inappropriate insults around that have nothing to do with the topics at hand, then I don't see why penalizing them is allowed. "Freedom of speech," including the freedom to argue without fear of punishment, may not be something that is written into the rules of this site, but I think it ought to be.

I can say that I feel like I should have more respect for the mods, and it saddens me when I lose it on those instances where I see them acting dictatorially and thoughtlessly (which is a horrible combination).

I am especially surprised that I haven't seen any of them in this thread, and the ones surrounding it. I'm thankful for the fact that they aren't shutting it down, because that at least shows some acceptance of debate, but what would be preferable is if they would join in with this discussion. I, for one, would like to know what they think, and I think all sides could profit from some healthy discussion.

"It saddens me because this poetry site could do much better then this and now it seems to me as some rhyming bulletin board."

: ) Well said, sir. But is that due to "freedom fighting" members, or the hordes of angsty teen triteness? Your call.

I honestly think that this web site has gone down hill from the time that i orgionally joined it. I think that the Mods on here (some not all, i am not attacking anyone) have too much power and i think that they try to sorta "protect" their image by deleting posts that threaten them. This is a poetry site, and part of poetry is showing your opinion.....right now they are deleting posts....whats next? poems they dont like? This site has definatly changed since i first came on here and i have to say some of the things i dont like.
<3 Bianca

Sibyllene did you read the Thread title? Let me quote it for you, "Some Questions...for everyone BUT the Mods."

You want us to get involved, yet at the sametime you state in the title of the thread that you don't? Make up your minds.

I thought about that, Joe, which is why I mentioned the other threads. I'm assuming this thread was named thus in reference to the one that got shut down... perhaps looking for a different outcome?

Haha. i heard freedom fighters...

is this some sort of rebel attack on the poetic death star or what?

Narphangu, actually...yes.

Anywho, my silly nunchuck friends, I'm simply more interested in the thoughts of my fellow members. There are only a couple Mods, and what makes their minimal numbers greater than the majority? Eh? Eh? I think I understand the responses and arguments of each Mod, and their miniature collective unit, so having them participate would be redundant. As abby and sibyllene have stated, Mods, if you want to participate, I believe Kevin has a thread open just for you. Yay, you can be the stars! Congratulations.

Bianca, Brit, Illuminati, sibyllene, abby, Mo...and whoever else: Great input so far.

Joe! Out, out, out. I'm going to whack you with my broom!

Well Nightmare, I was a mod not so long ago....and I can tell you they do alot more than you ever see, and I say that with them not being my favourite people right now.

Think of their workload like Freuds Consciousness iceberg analogy.

You see the tip, the locked threads, the edits and warnings, all the bad stuff....all the cold stuff.

What you don't see if below the surface....the hundreds of poem, comment and forum thread complaints they wade through....the endless PM's [most of them from me..recently ) ]....the plagarism searches and the discussions they usually go through to reach a consensus.

It ain't ever a fun role exactly, though I used to get a kick out of it when I was fighting the baddies.

Actually we are not able to fix the "bugs" in this site. We are doing the best that we can, but when it comes to programming we do not have that capability to make such changes.

That is something that would need to be addressed to Janis or Dianz.

--Sher

Oh, align center would be great! As well as other things that allowed for the customization of poetic style. I mean, I could care less if my forum posts were colorful and animated, whatever, but the poem alignments, yes.

Yeah, I have a poem about an ant that is shaped like an ant...but hey, no one knows that but me.

Hahaha! That's adorable. And sad.

"Its been broken for about a year, and sherry i understand but if you said you cant handle programming then why is it that when the messages and whos online thing come and the bugs in the clubs stayed ? I dont find that logical at all unless some mod besides janis or dainz did those features"

^^^NO Mod has the ablitly to code on the site, it is only Janis who is the site owner and Admin of the site. No one said it was logical thinking on his part, we had no idea what he was adding to the site, we found out about the new features excactly at the same time the members of this site did.

Well, that's great. I need to have a talk with Dainz. Mods, what are you doing in my thread?

First of all Jane, it is not "your thread" it is the internet, this is a public Forum in which anyone can post as long as they're a member of the site.

Regardless of the title of the thread, everyone has the right to post regardless of their postions on this site.

Second of all, yes it is true, the Mods found out about the new additions to the site at excactlly the sametime as all the other Members of the site.

On some occasions yes Janis doesn't inform us (the Mods) what he's doing, but on most of them he will inform us, it just so happens this is a few of the additions that he implemnted that we didn't know about till the day it was on the site. Is that a fault for the Mods to take? I think not, it's more or less the fault of Janis for not informing us, or for that matter anyone on the site.

I'll agree there are many problems that need fixing, but I'll state it again, The Mods can't do anything in terms of coding the site.

Much appreciated, Bob : ). I'm at Perkins doing homework right now, but I'll see if I can't respond better when I get back for the night.

Bob if you respect Sibby so much, and you know she is part of the same club as me, then ask her about conspiracies and secret groups.

You all but accused me of using her and the rest of Janes club to further my ideas....go and ask her seeing as you obviously don't trust me.

Bob, by all means surprise me with your PM's, if they are good enough to mock threaten me I'd love to see them, or you can just keep on trying to feed me scary biscuits and tales of informants and confidence leaks!

As for the "all but", are you saying that you don't think I have used the club to further my ideas in the suggestion thread? You do think I have been planning those ideas for a long time, maybe you think I cooked them up with everyone in the club?

I did ask them to get involved in the debate, but whether you believe me or not I actually said that I wanted them involved because they are really smart, and I didn't care if they agreed with me.

Hey Nick, thanks for the...I can't think of the right phrase. The support? The backing? The kind words? The belief in me? I'm really tired, sorry. But thank you.

He's right, I wouldn't let any type of conspiracy go on...what type of conspiracy could we be talking about anyway? Only one to help this website, so what's the problem? Sorry, maybe I'm missing something (yet again).

Please back off my club members however, or I will have to let loose my purple balls of fury.

Ciao ciao.

Oh, are we going to give me a penalty point for the harmless, empty threat? Shame, and I like you all so, so much.

Oh for goodness sakes... this entire thing has blown so far out of proportion its barely recognisable as what it started out as being. Its like we all sat down to discuss bettering our site as free individuals (and adults!), and someone's thrown a big juicy steak into the middle and watched us all turn into savage animals - pointing fingers whilst trying to hold our own heads up high. Its disgraceful. I wonder what all the "young ones" would think of all this - this whole discussion is now about as useless as tits on a bull.

I suggest we take a leaf out of Abby's book and try to make a compromise and work together? Hmm?

Rome wasn't built in a day.

I wouldl just like to add to my post before..conerning Bob. When i first joined this site i was a mess and bob helped me realize that i need to change how things were happening to me and stop blaming people. This site i believe has done alot of good, but also it does need alot of work. If there was a way of kicking every single person on here off who casued prolbems then i would be all for it, but they would jsut creat more by getting another account... I have been on other sites, and this is by far my favorite. I think that there are a lot of good people on here who are willing to give constructive critisim (sp) and people who are willing to help....now that i have looked back i do think that alot of the posts that have been blocked had good reason, not that they have "run their course" but that the same things are getting said over and over and its not going any where...i dont think that posts should be deleted but then again people should be considerate in their posts... I agree that maybe we need a thread where there isn't all the hostility, and every needs to try to compromise and maybe put together a list or rules or things to consider and send it to Janiz (sp)...i think it would accomplish alot more then attacking eachother about conspirecy's (sp)........
just my thoughts for the day. :)
<3 Bianca

In my opinion.. The mods do any alright job around here. With Janis disappearing and and Dainz lack of interest.. I can see it getting to be pretty hard.

But I do agree with Kevin in the post above this one, discussing rules. Sometimes the mods do get a little irrational in situations where they are challenged. They give you the, "If you don't like it, leave." approach. Which.. Is understandable through all of the complaining most members have throughout this site.

But from personal experience, and since Joe is active in this thread I might as well use it.. When the chat was up, Joe boy and I did not get along whatsoever. We always got into sticky situations and sometimes I wouldn't handle it very well, and neither would he. Kicking me because I challenged him. BUT. I understand that.. Because I wasnt the most polite person ever. But I wasnt blatantly rude either. Even Ann Marie and I werent the fondest of eachother then. Not trying to bring up past, just using an example of how Mods can get annoyed just like we can. It's human. But I do think it should be discussed in a mature manner amongst the two, not for everyone else to give their input. It's a conflict of interest amongst TWO people, not an entire poetry site.

I think members should have a knowledge of right and wrong. It's wrong to say, "Go to hell" but different to say "Hell with it." To attack someone with a negative comment and a profain word is clearly wrong. But hell, damn, piss, things are a lee way for the way you use them. Without attack. We all know that, but are encouraged to use other words if able.

Locking posts, how is that relative? We're challening the moderators here.. It isn;t locked until it does back and forth to an all out war. Or fills. I agree with Kevin in many ways, many many ways in his post questioning the moderators rules. And I respect him for trying to see both sides of the matter; Mods and Members.

But I also believe the mods are working with all that they have. And are just people to. No member will ever be happy with the decisions they make or the rules given. Someone will ALWAYS want something to change and something to be more, "fair." But fair is a baised term to most people.

Although, I believe Kevin has raised his concern in an intelligent and mature way. Either way.. Everyone isn't going to end up being happy and conflicts are going to happen, no matter how many rules we have.

Oh, Psch.

Mo, you of all people should know better than to promote peace on this site.

Haha.

When are the adoption papers coming, btw?

I think Mods are necessary for the site[obviously] cause it just wouldn't work without them. All that'd end up happening would be angry people and argumentative threads that never ever ended.

Besides that, though, I dunno. Sure, we need a police force, but corrupt cops? If you're gonna be a Mod, then you have to have a totally non-judgemental "follow d'em rules, folks" sort of attitude to it.
I think it'd be very helpful if we had a point system for Mods. Then they can't get away with every little thing.

Treat people like you want to be treated. Kay?
Yeah, I'm studying Confucious... Silly man.

And yes, that's the end of my rant.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got history homework to get to...

"I think it'd be very helpful if we had a point system for Mods."

^^^ we have to follow the same rules the members of the site do, we still can get points just like everyone else. And if it really came down to it, we can get suspended as well.

In fact,k there have been a few mods suspended if I remember correctly.

-Sher

I'd wager that it would take far more offence for a Mod to edit or delete another Mods post than a regular members.

I say this because Mods have posted recently in the Moderator rules thread I created and been rather disrespectful, suggesting all kinds of untrue and character damaging things about me and nothing has been done about it, then one person calls me a hypocrit and their words are removed.

I'd rather be called a hypocrite up front than have a Moderator who has known me for years suggest I'm a liar. There might be no name calling, but you can disrespect some a whole heap by inferring things about them.

Bottom line, the Mods do a great job, I used to be one so I know a little about that...but I also know they let their fellow Mods away with more than any member would ever be allowed, and that isn't fair.

And as far as I know, there was only ever two Mods suspended, one was Ken, and he was a psychopath who used this website to contact young girls and then he went crazy around the site so i banned him....but before he logged out and the ban took effect he also banned me, so i was the other one.

So only two Mods have ever been suspended as far as I know, one was a mentally unstable and the other was, well I'm just your average working class hero you know.