Can I ask...

What! those are not my views, but what is in the holy text quoted by some websites (came up on Google, many osuch exist, obviously not myn or endorsed by me)....so why am I being accused for misinterpreting. Why not Google for bringing up blasphemous searches, and why not send a Fatwa edict to them? Use your educated reasoning, not belief's! Peace!

But, the irony of Muslim men being allowed to marry non-Muslims, and their women forbidden (to marry their human kind)! And no true Muslim can ever convert...sacrilege!
One way rules, certainly.

No wonder American Muslims (both men & women)living in this big melting pot called America, will go out of their way to marry someone outside their religion, risking sanctions.

Hey! I do not endorse any religion, only brotherhood, in this big place called the "World". Nor would I defend my own religion, if it is corrupted by false teachings. Isn't all the fighting going on in your neighborhood all America's fault?
And I am least interested in fundamentalistic preachings of any religion, just hoping that one day enough Muslims girls marry Jews and Christians and vice-versa, so we can shed with this false behavior in the name of religion.

Lonely soul: I suggest you check your information, for you are severely misinformed from what i read in your previous posts
and do you have a problem with our teachings or anythiny?
If you do that explains it, and feel free up correct me if I'm wrong, but reading through this debate i see U r only fund of reformed/and modern Muslims, the ones that live in ur part of the world, somewhere down the line, did you fall under the illusion of being superior to the rest of the world, setting the standers of who's civilsed and who is out dated? Who needs help and who is deemed worthy of praise? Well here is a fact, even the most evil of men will show goodness and kind heartiness to the ones they care about most
The moral of this, noone is to be judged based on their race
Colour and ethnicity, you are judged solely upon your actions
And actions arent related to religons( set of principles that someone may or may not value to heart)

Nana, I vote you for president
Who follows?

Vi5

Culture bro,
There are over 1 billion Muslims stretched out in each and every single point of the globe at this era and time
Having said that, it only indicates that culture is responsible for your cousin having to convert, because l from a personal Point of view have had 3 different incidents Of which each had a different outcome.

At the end guys we are only human and although we tend to blame human nature for any unexplained fault or defect
But think of this

Us humans are the only creatures that acknowledge the existence of god, yet at the very same time we contradict ourselves willingly by disobeying that of which he bestowed upon us, apply that to your own psychical realm
And All of this will be clear
It's easy to spot how mankind swerve along the way at least once in their life time

Lostlove1, your last post is wonderful. I love it.

Yes gaurav, if a marriage fails, muslims can remarry.
And about having many wives at the same time, in India, is practised very rarely... Becuz we live in an environment of hindus who say that they can marry only once and since we are used to this, we do not much follow this norm at all. it might exist in India but at a small level... actually only those states with a majority of muslims like hyderabad, delhi.
And I agree with nema about the conversion into Islam of a non-muslim after marriage... We are never forced to follow a religion but religion speak that after marriage, a person has to follow her husband's religion, infact a woman's surname changes to her husband's after marriage.. But now in India, if there are intercaste marriages, the woman is allowed to keep both the surnames...
Lonely soul, you are right that most muslims are converts from hindus during the mughal dynasty here but those were are ancestors and so we have few rituals during marriages and many customs which are different from those staying in other muslim countries....
And what lostlove said is actually very true... couples follow the rituals and customs of each others' religion... this helps to avoid the future fights based on religions...

Yes gaurav, if a marriage fails, muslims can remarry.
And about having many wives at the same time, in India, is practised very rarely...
^
Yes, anyone can remarry, but not easy for a woman in India (any religion), if divorced....but Gaurav said above:
"Oh and are multiple marriages allowed in India?. . Haven't investigated into it yet. I am aware there are conditions in Islam for having more than one wife. But do Indian Islamic followers implement such idk. .rituals/customs? .."

^The real answer is Polygamy in India amongst Muslims is still allowed despite multiple protests from the Indian public to enforce the same uniform law to all contituents, thanks to the "weak kneed" Indian Congress politicians who want to win minority votes, when outlawing it would have been the correct thing to do. Ironically, it still remains legal for Muslims under the terms of The Indian Muslim Personal Law (Shariat) Application Act of 1937....an antiquated personal law, before India gained independence in 1947. A Muslim man in India is allowed to take 4 wives.
Since I also know how this law has been abused by some famous people in India (eg Dharmendra, the famous actor of yesteryear marrying Hemamalini, after both converted to Islam), the best way for Indian Muslim women to protect themselves from polygamy by their husbands is to get married or registered under the Special Marriage Act of 1954, the civil marriage law. Most of Indian Muslim men hate to get married under this Act or get even their Muslim Marriage Registered under this Act, for if they did they will be prosecuted under section 494, 495 of the IPC for commiting polygamy.
So Amreen, remember this when you get married! :)
--------------------------
And Rabea, why am I being targeted here? Did I endorse or oppose anything said in Q'uaran or the Muslim religion? I merely led you folks to 2 websites (amngst many) which seems to dispute some of what was said....you should be really disputing those written words/teachings and their interpretations, than trying to preach me Q'uaran....sorry I am least interested in debating religious philosophy. My only reason to state what I did above was to make sure all you young people use your modern education and correct judgement when backing up antiquated preachings in your religious texts. Why do you have to assault me instead of correcting what you see as incorrect in them (Q'uaran citations by that website writer) by using the right argument backed up by your citations. In the US and any part of the modern non-Islamic world, we appreciate being corrected by counter-reasoning backed by real evidence. A mob mentality does not win any points in a discussion. Yes, you can vote Ms. Sunshine as President and I am sure I have no disagreement with it if my vote was required :)
And what if you lived in America/UK/Western europe/Australia and fell in love with a cute Jewish, or an orthodox Greek girl, or a Hindu....would you tell her to convert to Islam because her religion was against your Islamic beliefs? And if she asked you to respect her religious freedom what would you do? or if she asked you to convert to her religion, if you truly loved her, what would you really do? Start here, instead of preaching me the wisdom of Islam.

Look...I never meant this to turn into another arguement about religion....I just came across this site and it surprised me is all. So I thought I'd just ask the question because...although it may sound niave....I honestly didn't know if arranged marriages were still going on and...to what extend....here's the link...well it's an advert for the site really...

http://www.youtube.com/user/singlemuslimltd?v=94ZsfODluNs&feature=pyv&ad=8732743934&kw=muslims

Hellon, you have me cracking on this one ^
The characters they used are so cute......and the way the girl said, membership is free for girls.....haha!

And I am such a sucker when you post these controversial topics and watch in the background, smiling at our wisdom. Maybe, I should go and relax and have some milkshake and cookie!

Lostlove1

^ I expected a similar answer. That is mutual understanding.

Many religious books state that all gods/goddesses are manifestations of the same omnipotent energy. So yes, there are higher chances of us ending up with a common creator, if he/she/it exists at all in the first place.

Rabea,

I am not targeting Islam. Just need to reassure everyone. My example was based on a personal experience. Apparently the religion associated with the crisis was Islam. I personally do not distinguish humans on the basis of religion. I have friends from all religions. I have lived in a country that has Islam as its primary religion. I celebrate Eid with friends, I just dont consume meat. I've learnt Arabic, even though I suck at it :P

And similarly, I do to indulge myself in Christmas. Love how the homes are decorated with lights and the environment is so joyful.

I very well understand that people following the same religion will have a different behavior across the globe. I gave an example yet I am not badmouthing every Muslim. So please do not get offended. Even my religion has problems. Women in many religion are facing problems of not being treated equal to men.

Knew a Muslim couple in Oman, who tried but could not have children. Both the sides of the in-laws pressured the guy to remarry, for children. He did not obey. Said he loved his wife too much and that he was devoted to her. There are hypocrites in every religion and there are intellectual people as well. A positive example.

Amreen,

Thank you the reply. I believe women should be allowed to choose as well. It makes no difference what name we take, what religion we belong to. If we harshly distinguish on skin color and religious basis, we are only proving what is already assumed - there is duality because we want it to prevail. There is violence because we willing opt for it.

ALS, thank you for the post. It would have been easy for me to Google. But people take steps that are otherwise against the law, wanted input from people. I am not much concerned about the multiple marriages. Just wanted some perspective about women giving permission to their husbands to remarry. I believe there will be women who would have been forced to give their husband permission.

if anything I mention is offending to anyone, please point it out. I will stop posting further. I have no intentions of hurting any member.

Can you now see why I asked the question...they looked uncomfortable to me and I wondered....are they just actors...? I'm still trying to figure out what the guy means by....as long as it's halal?????

* This post was answering ALS...four V's posted in between...I know you have a new name now but...can't remember it..forgive me :)

^ Do not apologize. My bad.

I was named Gaurav by my parents, just in case if you'd like to know the name I am addressed by legally :P

Or would it help if I change the name to something, not lengthy?

No...It's my fault....even the name Gaurav sounds strange to my ears..would it be pronounce Gurav? Maybe I should call you George haha!!!

Hellon, you can call me what you like, I have no problem =)

But just incase

http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/gaurav

Mmm so the v at the end of your name is silent?.

what I heard was ...Gwaroo? Although the w was just there and no more?

I hosted a Japanese student many years ago and she came back with her boyfriend to visit 4 years later...OMG...I just could not pronounce his name no matter how hard I tried so...I called him John...we managed to translate his surname to washwood so...this guy...for the duration of his stay was John Washwood....I still get emails from him 10 years on....lovely guy!

^

My name is pronounced differently in different parts of India. In Maharashtra where I came from, the pronunciation is a sanskritized "Ga-oo-rav". In North India, it is pronounced "Gaw-rav". And I have noticed South Indians pronouncing it as "Gav-rav".

Though I grew up being called "Ga-oo-rav" by friends and family. The V isnt silent, but one need not place emphasis to nail it.

Bow down - W or N are exactly silent. But are needed for complete pronunciation.

If this does not help, I guess I can use vocaroo later on to make it clear.

Errr...can I just call you George? or even just G? my son's friends all call me H and I kinda like it so....G?

^ G would do =)

You wont have to remember much and my profile title would be less annoying.

Geee..you're so nice G!

Gee..wouldn't be nice
if we were all G's
the world would be a brighter place
we could all live together saying...

Gee you you nice today.....LOL!

G it is now!!!

Oh! what would we do without your sense of humor H :P

Gee....please tell be G...LMAO!!!

Wait...if I slip up at some point and say Geeezzz...or Geezzus....would that start another religous thread???

G...I hope not :)

David, who's targeting you ? did I mention your hairstyle ? your beliefs ? did I complain about your anything ? I replied your post, I don't care what's on google, you were guarding your words with inaccurate interpretations of the Quraan, that YOU found on google, although you neither have an original copy, nor a background on whether these words written on that website were correct. They are not. Problem is, I don't care to correct them either, because it's apparent that everyone is trying to make a point rather than to simplify the subject so that it be understood by all the parties.

no body is targeting you, of that I'm pretty sure, at least not myself.

****
No wonder American Muslims (both men & women)living in this big melting pot called America, will go out of their way to marry someone outside their religion, risking sanctions.

^^^
lolll....you know what, I have a different story for you, you say they are reformed that's why they marry people from your part of the world or any other part, when my story and I am talking out of different stories that I have heard and witnessed from Americans, British, Ethiopian* women who got married to Muslims I know, that they found in this culture what they were missing out there " the family bond" which is very strong, especially in my Islamic culture that urges individuals not to let go of their children and parents, even they reach a certain age, that teaches them that family comes before anything else. We all know how some societies are suffering from family and social corruption.

You say the are reformed and start believing in love over religion, when in fact most of the cases I have witnessed says that the other side found the love within the ethics held by this religion along with the stability and the peace they were looking for.

----

And does it make sense that the personal example given by our fellow here is an ISlamic issue as much as a family one ? I don't think he is holding a gun to her head and asking her to cook the meat or the eggs. It means he is abusing her, and hence she should get divorced, it's 2012, there is no problem in getting divorced as in the past, and if there is, then that's a personality problem and a family one...

BECAUSE : also to David though talking to Rabea but to reply you , not to target you:

And what if you lived in America/UK/Western europe/Australia and fell in love with a cute Jewish, or an orthodox Greek girl, or a Hindu....would you tell her to convert to Islam because her religion was against your Islamic beliefs? An

^^^^^

Because you cannot convert, if you are not fully convinced, you say you don't know her anymore, well it's either that she is convinced or that she doesn't know herself either ? Because her converting won't happen, unless she finds it suitable, it's not saying certain words that makes her converting come true, it's her inner belief, whether she does believe or not.

So whether they find a solution, that is a personal matter :), no body can force no body, to do anything, at ALL. And anything that is done by force, especially converting, is not acceptable by Islam nor God.

*******

Now, does that mean, that the world is nice and peaceful ? NO
does that mean that some Muslim men just like any non religious american or british or whomever doesn't abuse ? NO, does that mean that we live in a perfect world ? ofcourse not.

So accept Islam just as other religions are being respected and accepted. Nothing is vague, Hindus have traditions that may seem more vague for the humans mind to understand than some of the practices done by a Muslim, but it's fairly accepted ...so raising such issues does seem to be racist somehow, someway.

Please when you want to say something, do make sure you know what you are talking about, because I definitely do :)

BBBBBBOOOOBOOM

^^ Hellon, I will have to admit, that gave me a smile. Its obvious, but you are quick on humor.

Ms Sunshine.

Nothing is vague, Hindus have traditions that may seem more vague for the humans mind to understand than some of the practices done by a Muslim, but it's fairly accepted ...so raising such issues does seem to be racist somehow, someway.

^ Could you give an example about Hindu practice? ..Just curious.

Egh that it self was an example, I was not saying it is vague, I said may seem, what I am trying to say, when I am not following a certain religion, when I am not involved in it since birth or quiet a good time, it is not easy for the mind to understand it, but that does not mean that it should not be accepted. you mentioned something about the Cows being holly etc, I don't believe in that, but does that mean that I should keep raising it up as an issue and asking why do they do that. why do they believe in that, it is their beliefs, and that should, alone, be respected, even if not practiced at my part !

I have a best Indian friend, called Aman deepsinghvirdi ...so obviously he is a Sigh who doesn't accept eating cow meat or any sort of meat but he doesn't condemn me for eating it O.o and I dont tease him about him being a vegetarian, we just respect our boundaries and each others beliefs.

SO what I meant, was, we dont have to understand what other people practice and how they live their daily lives and how they run their families, in order to be able to accept them without considering their beliefs as issues, or picture them as if they are living with their hands chained. People are satisfied with the way they are living, and if they aren't they will change. And if they can't. that's a different problem, totally.

^ But I am not condemning any Muslim Individual for eating cow. My point was to not force someone to cook cow meat, especially when it is holy to them.

It is equivalent to asking a Muslim individual to cook pork.

There are vegetarian Hindus and Non vegetarian as well. Most do not consume any type of meat. Thus emotionally abusing someone to cook meat is wrong. Any meat.

And if I was targeting just Islam in general. I would have mentioned the obvious. One can eat cow, horse, camel, fish, etc but not pork?. .its still meat. But I did not mention it. Yet.

The main reason for such topics arising is, because Muslims are an international issue. I am not brining it up. There must be something wrong that Muslims are being targeted. I am trying to understand the reasons, that is why I chose to participate. Indians are primarily known for their population. Immigrating countries and stealing jobs. Although most Asians are accused of such behavior :P

I personally have nothing against Islam. And at least I do not bring up such topics. How often have I started a thread, about anything?. .Just wanted to participate, cross question and refine my views. That is all. You are quite annoyed by such topics, you have very reason to. Consider me as a child asking questions. And one is definitely going to encounter random and silly questions. I have no problem how people live, nor do I tell people how to. I am not religious myself.

Sorry If I sound offensive. I assure you I am quite calm. If we have any problems, we can solve it via pm.

I guess may be the thread should stay inline with the original question. All in favor say, hakuna matata :P

Lmaooo did I say you are condemning ? the opposite in fact! lool dude, I was replying the posts, not ssaying you are like that O.o and I gave my relation with this friend as an example ! of accepting one another.

I think you took it personal, you are somehow sensitive...in no way your questions or participation offended me .....

the issue I had, lately every now and then, issues are being raised on very simple stuff regarding the Islamic civilization, and it goes off the limit when I am given wrong statements about my own religion with "statistics" that are in no way factual lool, I am neither angry nor offended , I am known for my long temper and acceptance of the other. perhaps I am ignorant, but I dont care what others think of me either, so, to say you were offending, is unfair. I was elaborating for everyone else, so that they know certain points. Since I am a Muslim, and no body can explain a Muslims life, like a Muslim him/her self.

edit:

My point was to not force someone to cook cow meat, especially when

^
yes, what I said, this is not the actions of a Muslim, as much as the actions of the man himself, told you, in Islam you cannot force anyone t do anything. this is abusing her, isn't it ? unless she wants to do it. It's one of the two:

either she changed, not by force, else she would be unhappy and LEAVE. OR she is unhappy and should leave.

so my point is, your example, implies his personality, not the Islamic religion, because as Rabea said, I also have different successful and unsuccessful stories.. it's all about the type of the relation between the two individuals themselves.

hahaha hakuna mattaaataaa lol

^ Oh, I thought you took it personally. My bad :P

It was a small misunderstanding. I though you were annoyed by religious topics coming up again and again. And I thought I may have ticked you off. I am not too sensitive. Yet, I do feel guilty upon hurting someone.

We're cool =)

Edit

Yes, it is the action of an individual and not religion. I did not blame religion here. But it is necessary that one religious individual respect his/her spouses religion. I mentioned the example to get more views on someone facing similar problems after converting. Regardless of which religion they belong to and which religion they converted to. There you go, it wasnt Islam. It was about general hurdles one might face after converting, to any religion.

And as for her, she is trapped. She left everyone, so the chances are, she wont be accepted back into her own family. One cannot make a living in India all by themselves. With a full time job she wont be able to pay rent itself. There are many more difficulties. The main point is, we are creating trouble for ourselves by acting as per our impulses, spontaneously.

Nooooo not at all, people always have questions and want answers, political ones, religious ones etc...I have nothing to do with it, why would I mind.

But having a bit of sense and a little a bit of logic, would be WOHOOOOO! if you know what I mean.

ofcourse we are, love and shine :D

^ Glad I didnt offend you. As long as we understand each other, It would be easier to participate.

And, may the force be with you ^^,

HAHAHA @ the hakuna matata line! :D

George, I'm not offended myself, I don't know about the others. I understand that every person's views about a certain religion have been a result to any kind of info/friendships/relationships..or..nothing at all. And to be completely frank it's their own views, whatever you feel is yours, if it harms me I'll try to let you see, if it doesn't work then we have to agree to disagree.

About eating pork in Islam, it was forbidden for a strong reasonable reason, which is that this animal feeds on dead meat and filth, so it's harmful by default, God created it to eat filth to complete the cycle of the creation. Another reason is that it creates lowliness in character and destroys moral and spiritual faculties in a man.
And by the way as far as I know, pork was also forbidden in Christianity, but I guess it was a controversial issue that people now eat it normally.

I don't mind these kinds of threads so long as we don't take it personally nor mock or write hate speech about each others.

Hellon, by the way I've seen those websites quite a lot and I think they're sick! :D Wonder if people use them anyways!

LostLove1 I looooove your story :) May you forever be loved and in love =)

^ George :P

Did not see that coming.

I know the reasons for pork being prohibited in Islam. That was just a question to trigger relative emotions. I have information on many religions. May be even more than the followers themselves. I have pointed out many things wrong with my own religion, but people get offended easily. They want their traditions, not logic or the truth. Some traditions are crazy. I mentioned pork for relative purposes only. Thanks for the input. I though I was going to offend almost everyone.

*Phew* now I can go back to making plans to take over the universe :P

Yeah being Muslim/Christian/Jew or anything doesn't mean you know what you're doing haha. Some people follow blindly and get offended when people offend their religion, but the funny thing is, they don't even have answers to such thoughts haha.

Well, can I call you G then? :D I just saw Hellon's post and I wanted to call you with your name cause your screen name is quite big :P

^ It is nice to meet smart people for a change.

Call me anything you like. My real name is mentioned as Gaurav. You may have overlooked it while glancing in a hurry.

G would do too =)

Whooo nice name!! :)
Thank you ^^ you're sweet!

I don't have much to contribute, I just want to say how nice it is to see thoughtful people discussing a topic, without it getting rude, or people getting offended. It says a lot about your character. And I'm learning things! Keep it up!

I didn't read the whole thread, yet. But just to clear some points out. Arranged marriages are a sort of tradition, not religion related. It's mostly like when parents try to pick out or suggest boyfriends for their daughters in western countries or girlfriends for their sons. It's just a suggestion, nothing more, nothing less. The two of them sit together, alone, and either they hit it off or they don't. If they do, there is an engagement for a number of years.. Mostly between 2 or 3 years where they even get to know each other better.

The whole concept of the thing is that they here believe that "families marry families", which means people of the same situation, lifestyle and whatnot should marry one another. It's probably because we're very close, you can never really stop family from mingling in your affairs. I should probably mention out that you have the right to disagree, I've sat with a whole lot of suitors, yet approved none of them. Yes, parents might pressure and nag, but in the end it's your choice really.

I would like to add that it is not only Muslims that had/have arranged marriages.

I'm Armenian and in the "old days" they had arranged marriages in Armenia as well where the wife met the groom the day of the wedding and that was never questioned. Things are a lot different now where there is freedom of choice for people to marry whomever they please. Oh and to add, Armenians are Christians.

It's a matter of time and tradition really, more than religion. However, the term arranged marriage does not reflect the reality of the situation in the east. It's more of a family first, thing. You could always marry out of love here (if the girl/boy's situation is fitting yours) where you just meet, fall in love then he proposes to your family or you could take the more traditional road where you get together upon the recommendation of a family memeber or friend with marriage in mind from the start. In the end, it's really your choice.

I absolutely cannot imagine meeting my groom on the day of the wedding. YIKES.

Okay, mega stupid question and I swear I've asked before but I clearly can't remember... and googling just confuses me.

What is the difference between Islam/Muslim? I swear I was told before Islam isn't a religion but I thought I saw someone here say it was. Color me confused.

OH. Well heck that makes sense, they just aren't "like" enough in name.. like Christianity/Christian, Judaism/Jewish etc.

^^ Senyru your right, Islam is a religion and you are a Muslim if you believe in Islam..etc As Britt has suggested Christianity = Christian and Judaism = Jewish

NOTE: Muslims do believe in Judaism and Christianity/Bible and Jesus (p.b.u.h), but we believe he is a prophet sent by god than Christians believe he is the son of God

Britt, the two words Islam & Muslim are Arabian, so I guess it doesn't match how you derive adjectives from nouns in the English language.