Winners Winners! weekly contesnt; Tuesday, October 30, 2012

I agree. Whatever anyone can contribute is welcome. IF anyone has a solution or if anyone will volunteer, please come forward.

Hahaha whats the big deal my poem was written under a minute and it wasnt even that great why do people insist in finding a deeper meaning in things besides i totally only have coffee everyday and no one cares for the poor tea

Everyone fighting i hope ya"ll get crocs for your birthday.

^ would you shut up before I spill that coffee all over you ..... let us adore your poem!

Hush chelsey or i am sending you pink crocs

Congrats Darren on your poem and to the winners and also pms.

Edit: Hm's

Mm.. I understand Britt that what you want from trying to change everything is to go with the current of changing judges, rules, etc.... maybe good... probably a miracle happens randomly, and everything is in its place once again....

But, it would be totally useless in the case of replacing Nana, for obviously the problem is not her, or let's say it is 'not between her hands'... the problem is in the coding of this contest as well as judges and their lack of commitment.

So basically, we need Janis, and more consideration when choosing judges. I mean... shi* happens, but to an extent that it happens every week? Nah... judges who constantly make mistakes aren't suitable for their positions. And this is where the moderators' job comes.

^ yeah that's what I'm saying, sh*t happens...but it shouldn't be weekly or every two weeks which is why I'm saying if the rule for now (regardless of what it was back then) is to turn in your votes and comments by Friday night/early sat morning, then follow the rule and do so, or do not vote at all that week. It'd spare the drama.. just let Nana know why you didn't vote, what came up, then she can relay it to us and we will have no problems considering other 3 or 4 judges don't accidentally click the wrong poem.

LOL because we are having issues every week ? so it's because I am the host, we are having problems ? And infact Britt, I am waiting and checking whenever someone votes. That's what I said, if the judge did vote before the last minute I could have known.

I have sent the judge a pm, that they never replied, they were not signed in for a day, I could not guess when were they going to come, if ever.

I don't mind changing me at all, infact not like it's a prize, I am doing this to help, not for any other purpose,
other than sending reminders and pms all the time for the judges and checking their votes then pming them back then pming the mods then vote or sending warnings, I can't do. If that's not enough go take it over Brit. or anyone else who thinks that I am not giving this enough time! like seriously.

Take it over, anyone who can do miracles and prevent site glitches, I don't have these powers, I can only fix wrong votes when the judge doesn't cast them at the last minute before the site updates its self.

And on a side note, all the judges were sent plenty of pms that if they want to be absent thet should send me a pm or send the mods, also they were told if thet can't send comments, they should not vote at all, and if they don't have time, they should not commit.

You don't know what they were told, or not, neither do you guys know if I am checking the votes or not.

And if anyone is bein careless over here, it 100 % not me. I can't be blamed for the judges who are not replying or responding.

And no I would not misuse the votes for personal purposes either, I only used them before to correct wrong votes, when a judge voted for a certain poem, and the site assigned it to a different poem, which is happening right now, I assume.

Let me try clear the issue:

Andrea was an old judge, this happened with her,

Andrea sent me a pm once that she voted 10 for an X poem.

but when I checked the X poem, I saw 0 vote as a total !
yet I found a poem with 10 points, that no judges voted for.

So the vote Andrea gave, went to another poem by a site glitche, the site somehow someway sent the vote to another poem!

Andrea was very upset, but we did fix it, I cast a 10 for Andrea's correct poem, and asked LArry to add a 4, so that the site won't break the tie between the two 10's since the actually winner is Andrea's pick, and no tie should be up there.

so the 10 I voted was to fix the problem that is still occuring, and extra 4 is just a fake vote to keep Andrea's pick on top, it was a winner back then

Nana you're doing an awesome job and I don't like the idea of changing hosts for the idea of change. You're so devoted and take the responsibility of keeping it organized and I'd be nervous someone else would screw it up lol

Until you wish to pass on your hosting skills, I do not think we should switch it up.

I did say before that I do enjoy this, and that it's not taking much of my time, even when I am out of the city I am having internet accesss.

My brother had a car accident last Sunday, Jacey was talking to my on Whatsap, she thought I was silly for worrying aabout posting the weekly thread.

I don't think I am underestimating this contest, I don't think anyone of you complaining take it as serious as I do, because I am checking this at my worst situations.

There is communication between me, the mods, and the judges, however we are not having perfect judges, not all of them are respoding to the instructions, we don't even have volunteers so that the human errors would be decreased by changing the judge, still, judges were changed bbeing too careless.

Yes, I am doing the best, but when a judge wants to vote before the site updates its self, that's something that no one should dare and blame me for, that's actually rude. Because the judge was sent a pm, and they never replied, the comments and votes that came in were somehow a SURPRISE for me, bad one obviously.

Anyway, whoever wants to take this over, just do. Fix the problem.

Everyone, take a deep breath and calm down.

1st of all, yes, we have been having a lot of issues with the contest since Janis updated it and we have asked Janis to fix it.

We have dealt with phantom voters, site selecting poems that did not have the votes, and a host of other issues.

There is no way that the host could even dream of the difficulties that the contest has had... and I will say that I think everyone is just as frustrated as the next person, but until Janis "fixes" his last fix we have to operate the best we can with what we have.

Now, I am not trying to demean anyone or their writings, but is this really worth fighting over?

Think about all the energy you are wasting to stay upset and argue when you could simply say "I am not going to allow this to ruin my day" and have a day filled with peace and joy.

Stirring up arguments, strife, and grief will not resolve anything. Accusing others of somehow cheating the system does no good either.

And frankly, I will be harsh here, but what goes on with the mods and how we handle things should be left to the mods and not always aired out to the public forum.

There is an app to fix most of what I have read here today and it is called respect. Respect yourselves, others, and authority.

That means speak with respect as well and not accusingly or harshly.

Just my two cents...

Now... exhale!

All of ya"ll are getting crocs. Period.

Hmmm why does everyone always say in the thread people are "arguing"?.....I haven't raised my voice or seen anyone else do so..its just expressing opinions and suggestions....

The Nana thing though...that's not even right...she's like the messenger...don't shoot her.

I wasn't grumpy at all until I read your post, Sher, to be honest.

I guess its time to go back to being unable to question anything because its between the mods? Didn't we all work hard for a good, transparent site? We have questions. It's not about stirring up grief and drama. I'm curious. We tried everything else. It's variables, you change them one at a time to try and find a solution. It's nothing personal against Nana and I'm not even saying she's voting for poems herself.

I don't see anyone arguing or being angry, just trying to figure out what's going on. Larry has explained things but the way he explains things sometimes confuses me more than the issue itself so I continue questions to wrap my brain around it. I'm a simpleton lol. Were not all mods and were not privileged to top secret info, so we have to ask to understand.

Lmao Larry and his amazingly brilliant answers confuse me often too...I'm always thinkin come on big Lar, please get on my level for once. LOL love you Larry tehe

Britt,

It is not about asking mods questions, but when others expect us to tell them every little thing...

After reading some of the other threads I felt as though some people want me to report to them before I do anything ... including personal things.. and that is not our job.

We have said it many times... the site is screwed up! I can't explain what is going on or why, but there is an issue that Janis needs to fix.

I know for a fact that there were suppose to be some poems that won and the site showed a different poem that did not have the votes. I have seen it myself.

I was cracking up when reading the exchange with Hellon and Larry because I was thinking exactly like Hellon was! I was so lost.

I think people assume questioning as having an offensive tone.. but that's not intended. It's genuine curiousity and trying to learn what the f is happening.

Well excuse me Britt, but if you think accusing others of being irresponsible in an indirect way, and implying that you'd be more responsible lol, is not offensive, then I don't know what would be.

I have no intention of being offensive, but I can't help if you took it that way. It's a matter of experimenting.

I'm saying I had no issues like this when it happened. I'm also very ocd, anal organizer. I spent hours upon hours on the contest. You can ask the mods, it was something I constantly monitored.

Emm okay dear, I already said, anyone can take it over.

I would like to express something if I may...

Back when I was judging, the scrambled poems was confusing a bit.. but when it came time to voting, I always went very slow and before I voted, I looked at the poem, made sure it was correct, before I clicked the vote button... and it worked fine every time except for once... the time Nana mentioned. I knew I voted for the correct poems, but the site gave them to someone else... that is why Larry and Nana helped to make sure the correct poems I chose revived their votes... I always voted on Friday... always... until this problem is fixed by Janis, the judges need to make sure they vote early enough, so the weekend can be the time for everyone involved to make sure the problems can be corrected. Just thought I would share that...

Hey folks,

I don't know if I can elucidate any of the problems, but I have a few things I'm wondering about.

1. Can anyone remember if these "misplaced votes" only started happening once the order of the nominated poems started getting automatically scrambled? I feel like it has, but other have a clearer memory for these things than I do.

I wonder if it is an issue with the coding. Could it be possible that the site still "sees" cast votes in their old position in the list, even if a new poem has taken its place? I don't know why it wouldn't happen all the time, if that were the case, but maybe it's a possible explanation.

2. I feel sort of bad for saying this, but it turns out that I am a skeptic at heart, and a part of me will believe that the issue is human error until I see it "proved" (or at least demonstrated) to the contrary. I feel bad because I don't want to blame people, but if I'm going for transparency, I have to admit that I will likely have doubts. (This doesn't reflect the opinions of the mod team, just me).

With that in mind, I've proposed an experiment to the mod team. We give everyone a week off, and give judging powers only to three (or however many can participate) mods, to run a trial for ourselves. We would put other things aside and focus solely and intensely on voting. We would document our actions (screenshots? eh?), and see what happens. It might not put the issue at rest forever, but maybe it would clarify things in some minds, and put a few doubts to rest. Anyway, other mods seemed fine with the idea, but is that something that people would be comfortable with? Having just mods vote for a week? If no glitches happen, maybe we try once more to make sure. But yes.

I just feel bad that this has been happening so consistently. I apologize, writers.

I can't remember since when, but I remember when Larry tried to fix Andrea's vote, also his vote went wrong, via the site glitche.

But then we found a way to fix it

doesn't that prove anything either ?
Let Larry correct me if I'm wrong.

Sib, can we know what do you mean exactly by human error?

I am sure this is just a coding error because no one can vote except the judges and moderators. And since moderators can see all the votes made, then they would report anything doubtful...

No, that was correct. I voted to correct a mis-vote & even my own vote went to some random poem. We wound up getting two other mods involved to correct the situation. I'm certain I voted for the correct poem & was flabbergasted to see the points not appear.

As for Sibs' suggestion, it think it's the best idea that's come along. I would tweak it by suggesting we take the votes from the judges by PM & each of us vote according to one judge's desires.
We would demote all other experts except ourselves to prevent ersatz votes. If the site correctly records our votes, we do it again for a few weeks. If the problem never recurs, we would have to assume it was human error.

Sib I am all for you guys voting and compiling and think its a great idea, just to help us all try to figure out what's going on and rule out human error. By that I mean when judging, you click back and the poems are jumbled etc.

I would propose you do it a couple week's if the first week has no errors. Just to be sure the site wasn't playing nice in coincidence lol

Yeah, I like Larry's tweak of the plan. That would be better.

LP: By "human error" I just mean people people clicking the wrong button on accident.

I can vote too, but I don't think I would just mess the votes around because I'm evil. I already said however as Britt stated because we are having problems every week, if changing the host solves these problems, just step up and take it over.

I do not believe the host has any responsibility for these problems.

The whole thing began after Janis changed the contest (which he did before Feb 2012).

First he had judges' votes hanging over from the prior week if the poem was still eligible.
He corrected that.

Then he made the poems randomize every time you opened or went back to the contest page.

Then Hellon had "vote" tabs show up for her when she wasn't even registered on the site.
On August 6 Jenni had the same experience.
[Both these incidents were communicated to Janis but he never responded to us.]

Between 23 July & 25 August the site was mis-applying votes on a regular basis. It was midway through that period that we gave up on sub judges because the confusion caused additional errors. We agreed then that only 3 judges were needed minimally and the site would break ties.

The site continued to mis-apply votes but Nana has been able to fix most errors seamlessly.

Judges have caused other problems:
not voting & not communicating; voting but not sending comments; voting at the last minute and causing an unintended poem to make the front page.
These judges have been replaced.

Larry Sibs and all

do the other judges still see the votes the other judges have applied when voting

i.e are they able to manipulate a poem to win or are votes now hidden to all judges? (not saying they did but it was possible)

It was possible when i was a judge, just thought we had requested that change as well?

Judges can not see what another judge has voted on as far as I know.

Nope, judges can't see. at least couldn't last time I judged.

Thanks guys.. thats one good change Janis made..

He actually made several good changes.

The one apparently causing the trouble now was done to keep the judges from being influenced by how popular a poem had gotten as it climbed the nominations page.

Which is a good change in it self

The weekly winners thing has always and will always be controversial...

Larry....the comment by you which I've posted below...sounds vague...like you didn't know what happened yourself...

"I last saw the votes on this week's contest Sunday night, apparently before the 4th Judge voted. At the time I counted a total of 63 points; that's exactly right for 3 judges. I cannot see the votes anymore, obviously, but I take it Yaki was supposed to get a 4 instead of Darren.
Since the site assigned it elsewhere I have to assume either it was a mis-vote by the 4th Judge or a site glitch. The fact is that if the judge had not waited to the last minute to vote we could have corrected the results. Alternatively, if the judge had not voted at all the site would have broken the tie between Yaki & Darren & no hard feelings would have accrued by anyone."

and...then this one makes it appear that you did know and tried to correct it so.. your original post seems slighly misleading to me...

"No, that was correct. I voted to correct a mis-vote & even my own vote went to some random poem. We wound up getting two other mods involved to correct the situation. I'm certain I voted for the correct poem & was flabbergasted to see the points not appear."

And....yes, I am outspoken enough to say that...a few weeks ago (although I can't find the post now) I did say I thought one of the judges was of arabic decend and possibly a member of the Kite Runners...remember being booed out for that one but...I've since found it to be true.

So Hellon, you can see the votes when the judges are placing them?

Yes....I forgot to mention my crystal ball :)

Maybe you were serious Everlasting so....I've added quotation marks to the comments that Larry previously made in this thread....

O yes crystal balls. I have one of those but it is not ball it is in the shape of heart.