Winners Winners! weekly contesnt; Tuesday, October 30, 2012

Hellon I am not sure you are reading all the posts very well?!

"No, that was correct. I voted to correct a mis-vote & even my own vote went to some random poem. We wound up getting two other mods involved to correct the situation. I'm certain I voted for the correct poem & was flabbergasted to see the points not appear."

^
THIS comment by LArry was not in regard to what has happened this last week.

This was refering to the incident I and Andrea shared about her experience with this site glitche. Re-read that part, you'll know what he meant regarding this one.

Nana I read them all...what I take from them well....it's always very hard to interprete an exact meaning when we talk here on the internet...what I will say... very honest opinion...I have no longer got any confindence about the truths of this site...we once went to a place where truths were supposed to be put out for the members to see but...while it appeared to be all good to start with you know...secrets still occurred...and they still do....that's never going to change and...no you will never convince me otherwise....you are popular or you are not....end of story...

Anyway..I read Larry's two posts the way I have stated so...maybe let him answer? and...No way do I want the focus to be taken away from the other fact....I was on to it before...still am....

What secrets! seriously, do you think everytime something is up we should come up here to the main boards and report it ? do you think the only times we had glitches were the ones when we had the wrong winners ? no we did face a lot of glitches that were corrected by me, Larry and by the cooperation of other mods. How come that doesn't count either?

I can't see secrets anywhere ? I see a site glitche messing votes arround, the evidence was given by Andrea, an old judge who did vote for the correct poems, however her votes were scored on the wrong poems, and then it got fixed by me and Larry and by the help of a 3rd mod.

And this is exactly the incident Larry reffered to, he was replying me actually, by that post.

I feel like you are exaggerating, popular or not...wth...lol, how does that even relate to the issues we are debating about anyway!

Nana...when the mods don't firstly come up with the truth and then they get caught out...not just here.. but, in the past does it mean they lie to us...or does it mean they cover up...well...in my opinion they are lying to me and thay doesn't make me feel too good you know?

You have used the word..We.. in this last post which also makes me ponder?...who is we exactly? You are the host but...I feel in in collaboration with the mods...I now know you have rights to vote in the weekly and...I don't think you should have...who gave them to you?

Edit..

Lying wasn't really the word I was looking for please replace it with cheated...I feel really cheated right now...

Whhen did anyone lie/cheat before and now ?

And I have the voting tools because I receive the votes, I check them and if no mod is around and if a certain judge votes late but not too late, I will be fixing the errors, I don't use the votes otherwise, how does that concern you ? do you think that I am using them for any other purpose ?

not possible infact, because the mods, at least Larry, check the total score, and if there are any extra points, he would know :)

We, as myself being responsible for checking the votes and communicating with the mods when something is up, and they the mods who also help correct the wrong votes when I report any, or fix any.

I was given the voting tools for good reasons infact, it saved us correcting wrong votes in the past.

But if you think otherwise, do share?

I don't think you shoud be able to vote to be honest....you are just the host putting it all together...

And I have the voting tools because I receive the votes, I check them and if no mod is around and if a certain judge votes late but not too late, I will be fixing the errors, I don't use the votes otherwise, how does that concern you ? do you think that I am using them for any other purpose ?

^^

What errors??? someone didn't vote...so you vote for them? is this what happens???

This is an inevitable flaw: our attentions always pick up and go for the obvious, and obvious is what commonly accepted. It is so hard to include the unknown and seemingly unusual pieces in wining list. And judges always more or less are influenced by their connections and networks ( no mater how hard they try otherwise)rather with the work itself.
This is the shortcoming of being an individual, we just react and connect to what is known and familiar to us.
this puts the both side of the equation in uneasy position, because the outsiders come across a lots of jewels that are not acknowledged in winning list, or even are not nominated, and judges feel they have done all they could but still are being penalized and misjudged.

Hehe to misjudge a judge it is an irony by itself, and meaningful in the same time, like any other irony.

Hehe Hellon,

I thought I replied back but I fell asleep.
I was wondering, then how many people can do that?
And those who can do that, can they also push the buttons?on a none serious one: how do I get one of those crystal balls?

As far as the misleading thing, it just seems that it took mr. Larry by surprised and that back then he had no idea what happened since every thing was working right. Before the changes in the coding.

It seemed base on how I interpreted it, that he thought that it might have been a human error but when he tried fixing it, he found out that in fact was a glitch.

So it seems that right now the focus is...
Trying to find out whether is a human error or when exactly the glitch happens.

Edit: trying to eliminate the thought of a human error or when the glitch happens.

The solutions given .. Sound good.
I like them. If i understood correctly Starting next week... I guess. Mods remove the voting powers from judges and the ones clicking the buttons will be the mods but the judges and the mods will keep in touch via pms. So the ones electing The winners will be the judges. Mods will only do a test to find out when the glitch happens as well as to clear any other idea of any signs of a human error.

But also based on what I read, it seems that the glitch is happening because judges wait till Sunday to vote. So the computer randomizes and picks the winners on its own out of the ones with 10's?

So I guess that should be tested .. Starting with the voting mods should wait until Sunday to see what happens after they click the buttons.. I don't know just my thoughts.

Nope that is called cheating.

This is what i mean: there is a weird problem

a judge votes for a certain poem but the site scores the vote to a wrong a poem. Either myself or larry or anyone who is around should revote for the correct poem to give it its right vote. Since the judge cannot vote twice even if his vote was wasted by the glitche.

A judge votes for a certain poem but the site scores the vote to a wrong a poem. Either myself or larry or anyone who is around should revote for the correct poem to give it its right vote. Since the judge cannot vote twice even if his vote was wasted by the glitche.
^^
Let me put my Columbo coat on here so that I can act stupid once more....I've got my cigar out an'all be seriously....I'm just giong to have to smoke it because..I just don't under this post either??

Nana you have done and are doing a great job, I have worked with you as a judge and trust you implicitly

Maybe I can clear a couple of things up.

1. If Nana was somehow adding her own votes, which some people seem to be implying, it would express itself differently. We would have judges' votes that match their comments, and then extra votes. This isn't what's been happening. We've been getting the right number of votes, but on the wrong poems, which (Unless Nana could magically delete votes, which she can't) the host has no control over.

2. Nana has voting powers to streamline the contest. It was getting very confusing before, because if a judge was going to be out, they might contact one or several mods, and it took forever to figure out who had already subbed for who, etc. If votes were messed up, we risked all "fixing" the problem by using our votes to offset the mistake, and actually making it worse.

So we made Nana the primary point of contact. If votes were wonky, she could cast her votes on what the judge thought should have won, to counteract the misplaced ones. So, she's not voting for what she thinks is the best, she's just "voting" so that the site wins express the intentions of the judges. If more points are needed, she asks one of the mods, and we do the same.

I believe she's been nominated as a judge probably every time, so I don't see that her having voting powers at all ought to be a problem.

Anyway, it's not as if this all happens in secret. All mods have access to the information to know what's going on. Even if Nana had been accidentally miscounting the votes, we have the judges' comments and votes to compare it to, and it still wouldn't match what the site reports.

Unless you believe that there is a weekly conspiracy where we twist the votes and then -tell you about it on the main boards,- then this is the logical explanation. If you DO believe in a conspiracy, then I'm probably not going to be able to convince you otherwise. But that brings me to my next point.

3. We could have easily just kept hush hush about all the problems and tried to pretend that everything in the contest was fine and dandy. We have chosen, for obvious reasons, not to do this. We are probably complicating matters by trying to explain it over and over, but we think this is better than just glossing over everything. What I'm saying is, if we were trying to cover something up, we'd be doing a hell of a lot better job at it than this.

And apart from personal member information and penalizing and stuff, I can't think of a single instance where we haven't explained our reasoning, or where we have tried to cover something up. If you have an example, let me know. If you guys could peek inside the mod room, you would see that this is true. We're really rather boring in there.

I wonder where are the people that jumped on me for saying the 'lying' word.... lol....

Nana, it's better for you to save yourself the headache. I suggest you quit your position... it's useless debating over this, I mean. Let them replace you so that we can see how they can handle that.

You are not eating chocolate eventually because of being a hostess...

Nicko thank you a lot :)

---

Well Abed, I did ask to be demoted, not for the headaches, as I don't mind. I do love what I'm doing, it doesn't take much time really. It just need some focus for an hour and a simple check when the comments and votes are received, except for when we have the glitche errors.

But it passed my mind for another reason, which is someone implying that I was manipulating the votes, and then Britt, talking about asking to host again, before (when she had time) when I did not even speak for myself, as if I am not doing my job, regardless of the fact that she or anyone else have no idea if I organize or not, if I have contact with the mods or not, or if I am checking the votes whenever received.

It's such accusations that disturbed my honesty and dedication for this contest that made me feel like I should be replaced, to satisfy others, but I guess the majority still trusts me for being mature enough, not do such evil things. So no, I'll stay up for this, unless the Mods see otherwise.

I have a life you know, and I have responsibilies, I cook for 3 other members, I have uni, I have students and a translation job, also a family, friends and a boyfriend, and then I have my relationship with my fellows here and the contest. I am not lifeless, but I am an organized person I still have a lot of free time just yet.
I am around a lot, maybe not online 24 hrs a day but I keep on checking every couple of hours.

I have no reasons to do evil, and if I did not have time either to organize the contest I would have not taken the position.

With that said I am certain that the issue is a site related one, I have been dealing with many judges, and still I'm dealing with them, I know the votes that went wrong, were correctly submitted by the judges, but somehow someway due to some error they were scored for the wrong poem. Although at times I or the mods could solve this, but this is something that no one but Janis should be fixing.

What did you cook today?? :P

Today "Kosa me7she" you like ? I love it.

for those who don't know :P

"zucchini" stuffed with rice and meat, cooked in tomatoe sauce. yumyum lol

According to mood only :P
not a big fan... except if there was wara2 3areesh with that!!

There may be a simpler answer to this mystery. Coding and human errors have probably nothing to do with it. The poem list rolls every few seconds/minutes or so, so if you delay your voting by longer, you may be actually voting for the wrong poem on the list.

Try this, judges, mods and Nana, refresh the list, right before putting your vote for each poem you intend to vote, and see if the voting errors stop. If it does, then tell Janis to make the list static or fix it somehow.

Invite Nana!Yummy yummy

"The poem list rolls every few seconds/minutes or so, so if you delay your voting by longer, you may be actually voting for the wrong poem on the list"

That would be "the human error" we've been talking about.

Sibs, what you interpret as human, is actually the other way around. Computers are already faster in this, so by the time your mind and finger connect, the computer has outscored you!. haHa

But David, would that happen to a newly nominated poem ??

and ahaha Karla, all yours

David, the nominations don't move while you're looking at them. They only get reshuffled when you navigate away and back, or otherwise refresh the page. They won't suddenly move as you're getting ready to click on them. As long as the page is open and you haven't clicked, they should be static.

I am not sure on what you mean by a newly nominated poem in the context of scoring for the weekly by the judges, Sunshine.

----------------------------------

Sibs, that I know, but I wonder, that when the finger hits the button on the poem visible to the judge/mod, the order of the poems has already changed, say from #20 to #25 when the score gets relayed to the scorekeeping computer? Just a wild thought, may not be correct at all.

I don't recall this happeninng when I judged Dec-Mar. So something else changed, as Larry suggested, perhaps in July.

The poem that appears in that place - should- be the poem that the site thinks is also there. They should move together. It's not, then that was discussed above as well.

"Could it be possible that the site still "sees" cast votes in their old position in the list, even if a new poem has taken its place? I don't know why it wouldn't happen all the time, if that were the case, but maybe it's a possible explanation. "

Is that what you mean? I was thrown off by your "computer moves faster than the voter" comment.

First, in direct response to Hellon: you took my original remark about this past Sunday and juxtaposed it with my remark about an event from previous in the Fall & invalidly connected the two.
To clarify, the first posting you quoted was made immediately after yours, at 7:31 am on Oct 31st.
The second followed postings by Andrea (7:35am on Nov 1st) - Sibs - Nana - Abed (ending 13:50 on the 1st) and my post was at 13:54 on the 1st. Given that you said you read all the posts, given that my two posts were 30 hours apart and given the context was so completely about two different matters, and since both postings are surrounded by the proper context, I believe you are deliberately falsifying your claims & will now cry innocent. Balderdash. Go peddle your drama and accusations elsewhere, I'm not buying.

David: the site does not change order except when you actually refresh the page or navigate back and forth to it. You can stay on the page for an hour and it remains the same.

Sibs: when do we start the experiment?

No wonder you're a law man.