Is JEsus Real

Jesus is known to the Muslims as ‘Issa – this is the name for Jesus that we have been given in our scriptures.

To Muslims, Jesus – or ‘Issa – is a saviour, a reformist, the Messiah (the anointed one), the "Word of God". He was elevated to heaven. He could cure the ill, raise the dead, fashion inanimate objects and blow life into them, all by the Will of God.

We believe that the one who disbelieves in Jesus is not a Muslim, because the person who disbelieves in one the prophets disbelieves in all of them. So Muslims believe in Jesus and in his message. His message was one with all the other messengers. In the Qur’an, it is said that God never sent a messenger to mankind except that he was sent with one warning: Worship Allah alone.

LIPTON: On another note, when saying man wrote the bible - Man has faults, Man makes mistakes. Picture a classsroom full of 50 children and start a "chinese whisper" getting them to circulate it amongst themselves. I gurantee you whatever whisper they come back with is the completely different...what do you think has happened to the bible of the past thousands of years and through all the hands of man it has touched?

Just a thought...

=Eirisa=

"The Bible is LEGEND and FANTASY just like any other book is that you could pick up off of the shelf today. "

That proves nothing, save you don't believe the Bible is true.

Same for your religion statements.

Are you a priest/pastor? Have you dedicated your entire life studying the things in this topic (origin of religion, early early churches etc.)? How is it you can make such claims about the church, if not by entirely your own opinion?

Besides, you can't use logic to disprove the illogical. Nice try, but not nice enough.

~Ciao Lipton

"LIPTON: On another note, when saying man wrote the bible - Man has faults, Man makes mistakes. Picture a classsroom full of 50 children and start a "chinese whisper" getting them to circulate it amongst themselves. I gurantee you whatever whisper they come back with is the completely different...what do you think has happened to the bible of the past thousands of years and through all the hands of man it has touched?"

Wow, can you read? I said that nothing was put into the Bible without God's allowing it to.

Now you make the argument of "chinese whisper."

Oh, that's funny. The entire Bible was not whispered to the next generation. They had the written thing right there in front of them.

As for being passed down through each generation, I can assure you that anyone trying to change the Bible for power/to get people to like them (or whatever reason) then it wouldn't have been done without:
A) bloodshed
B) Large amount of fighting/debating whatever.

That's what Martin Luther's problem with the Catholic church was.

~Ciao Lipton

You can't gurantee on the behalves of the societies that have evolved and embraced Christianity that some selfish martyr didn't change a word Lipton, you can gurantee that for yourself...yes but not for others - I think your speaking for yourself hun, I don't think God is standing there telling you he didn't let anybody change the bible, none of us are blessed prophets so we are all speaking from opinion Lipton, myself included...

You cannot assure me of anything historical Lipton, you can assure your opinions are yours but that is all.

The bible may not have been whispered but the point I am trying to make Lipton is it has been handed down from generation to generation, translated after translation - not you nor I can gurantee that it is word for word as God spoke to Jesus all those years ago. Just like whispering Lipton its not hard to change the written form of something either...but I thought you would know that...

I can read, and I read that you stated "nothing was put into the bible without God allowing to" well unfortnately that lacks substance and proof to me, especially coming from you. You are not God, nor are you Jesus or Moses, writers of Gods word in the bible so how can YOU guarantee that - once again you can only gurantee your one sided opinion.

Peace =Eirisa=

"The Bible is LEGEND and FANTASY just like any other book is that you could pick up off of the shelf today. "

I agree Lipton, it proves nothing but Kaitlin opinion which is as valid as both yours and mine. But nor do your religious statements either.

You criticise others for having an opinion Lipton when you're a hypocrit because your "religious facts" are just the same - your opinions and beliefs, just as mine are and Kaitlins are but you have to stop trying to take away from the validity of them in order to make your beliefs more justifiable to yourself...

You can't use logic to disprove the illogical, no that was a nice try of you Lipton - you can't use illogical justification to disprove logic either...

=Eirisa=

Faith is illogical in itself, I respect everyones beliefs, and if the Bible works for you, great, but logic in my opinion SHOULD BE the basis of faith, and I see more logic that disproves the Bible than proves it.

Lipton, you and I have been locked into this discussion before, and you and I are both smart enough to be able to continue the great debate until Christ comes again (if he existed in the first place, gotta love it...), but I only posted what I did to play devils advocate to a certain extent, I actually disproved Katie's theory and gave her some REAL amo to use, because there is quite enough real ammunition to fire without having to sound ignorant.

And, again, all of your claims are based Biblically and from the Church, which I believe is a brain washing machine (although a DAMN good one, and I commend their successful efforts), so the REAL WORLD facts seem much more plausible from where I am sitting.

Then again, I'm sitting in my perception, so there you go.

The faith connundrum continues, but please guys, if you are going to disprove the Bible, do it intelligently and with a well thought out argument.

Here's something for your troubles:

2 Tim 3:16

"All scripture is inspired by God..."

Anyone has access to the original Greek and Hebrew Bibles. Go ask your pastor.

Apparently, you can't read, because you still keep trying to make points that I have already spoken to you about. People were (and still are, for that matter) VERY touchy when it comes to the Bible. Changing it in any shape or form would have resulted in more than just a "You can't do that."

"I can read, and I read that you stated "nothing was put into the bible without God allowing to" well unfortnately that lacks substance and proof to me, especially coming from you. You are not God, nor are you Jesus or Moses, writers of Gods word in the bible so how can YOU guarantee that - once again you can only gurantee your one sided opinion."

No, I am not God, or Jesus. However, most of what I say, when speaking about proof of the Bible, or whatever, I try to use God's and Jesus's words.

And I never said I was deciding anything for anyone. As far as I can see it, I haven't used much, if any at all, opinion when trying to back myself up.

~Ciao Lipton

"...you're a hypocrit.."

It's HYPOCRITE.

"You criticise others for having an opinion Lipton when you're a hypocrit because your "religious facts" are just the same - your opinions and beliefs, just as mine are and Kaitlins are but you have to stop trying to take away from the validity of them in order to make your beliefs more justifiable to yourself..."

Show me where my opinions lie. As I've said, I try to do everything I can to not use opinion, because I am well aware that that can't be used in discussion.

As for the quote of Kaitlin's reffering to the Bible being fantasy or not, I used NO opinion in my reply to that.

~Ciao Lipton

I am assuming both of those were for Eirisa... because I dont see how they were relevent to me.

You make good arguments for the "God squad," and "Bible thumpers," let others make good arguments in alternative stances.

That is, you make as good of arguments as you can, for quoting the very thing (Bible and Church) that we are disputing the very existance and factual basis of, which kind of X's out your facts in the eyes of the people who disregard it... but hey, c'est la vie.

Reincarnation is not a religion, although it is an aspect of many religions, and people do claim that there is logical basis, which is disputable for people who have not had experiance in metaphysical realms.

Here's something for your troubles:

2 Tim 3:16

"All scripture is inspired by God..."

**Lipton I respect your opinions, I know the scriptures but where is the proof that they are fact? It is your opinion and belief they are fact, where is the proof**

Anyone has access to the original Greek and Hebrew Bibles. Go ask your pastor.

**No I read the Quran not the bible, but I have studied Christianity at school and went to catholic schools through out my life, I do not have a Pastor I have a Sheik and he tells me differently**

Apparently, you can't read, because you still keep trying to make points that I have already spoken to you about.

**I can read, don't belittle me we are having a intelligent conversation here and comments like that only take away from the validity of the points you are making. I respect these points, simply don't agree with them is all. I understand you have already spoken to me about these points but your rebuttles are the same opinions and belief and all I am requesting is your proof**

People were (and still are, for that matter) VERY touchy when it comes to the Bible. Changing it in any shape or form would have resulted in more than just a "You can't do that."

**I understand that also, that goes for all the great books Lipton but human nature is fickle, and again you cannot gurantee that humans have not altered these words, touchy about it or not. After all we are human...and we make mistakes, we are greedy**

"I can read, and I read that you stated "nothing was put into the bible without God allowing to" well unfortnately that lacks substance and proof to me, especially coming from you. You are not God, nor are you Jesus or Moses, writers of Gods word in the bible so how can YOU guarantee that - once again you can only gurantee your one sided opinion."

No, I am not God, or Jesus. However, most of what I say, when speaking about proof of the Bible, or whatever, I try to use God's and Jesus's words.

**And where are Jesus or Gods words anywhere in what you stated above expect your scripture quote?**

And I never said I was deciding anything for anyone. As far as I can see it, I haven't used much, if any at all, opinion when trying to back myself up.

**Well you have actually - you cannot proof the things you have said therefore it is not fact, it is illogical as you said yourself, it is personal belief and faith, just as mine is**

Thanks for your thought provoking answers all the same...

Eirisa :o)

"...you're a hypocrit.."

It's HYPOCRITE.

**My bad I forgot an "E", since when did you take JPM job of literary policing?** LoL :o)

"You criticise others for having an opinion Lipton when you're a hypocrit because your "religious facts" are just the same - your opinions and beliefs, just as mine are and Kaitlins are but you have to stop trying to take away from the validity of them in order to make your beliefs more justifiable to yourself..."

Show me where my opinions lie. As I've said, I try to do everything I can to not use opinion, because I am well aware that that can't be used in discussion.

**Opinions cannot lie, as they are just that opinions - I never claimed you were lying just that you were stating opinions of your own, and not proven facts, and opinions can be be used in a religious discussion as far as I am concerned. For the fact that there are so many religions how can everyones "facts" as you call them be true, they are beliefs and opinions we believe to be true...there is a difference between that and proven fact**

Thanks again Lipton :o)
Eirisa

"The Bible is LEGEND and FANTASY just like any other book is that you could pick up off of the shelf today. "

That proves nothing, save you don't believe the Bible is true.

Same for your religion statements.

Are you a priest/pastor? Have you dedicated your entire life studying the things in this topic (origin of religion, early early churches etc.)? How is it you can make such claims about the church, if not by entirely your own opinion?

Besides, you can't use logic to disprove the illogical. Nice try, but not nice enough.

**Again you said you have used NO opinion in replying to Kaitlin's statement about the bible being fantasy and legend...your above statement is completely opinionated, no fact nor religious reference**

All Done-

My metaphysical experiences are based in the energetic psychology realms, such as NLP, HBLU, Pranic healing, Astrology, etc.

Metaphysics is an open-ended science; the biggest difference between it and religion is that there is NO book, organization, or person, spearheading us. It is led by nothing and no one besides your independent thinking, and it is the search for how the Universe works.

Metaphysics in itself is not spirituality, either.

Also many "Christians," people, who subscribe to the beliefs and word of Christ, are New Age metaphysicians. Many of them that I know also believe in the Bible.

The great thing about my belief system is that I sincerely write no one else’s off, I have said it before, I will say it a million times before I die:

"I may come to find I am as full of shit as I find all of you people to be."

That is my modus operandi throughout life. Quite honestly, I have no personal problems with any belief system, but I am more than willing to share with anyone my logic as to why it does not work FOR ME.

If you study metaphysics, and it is a study and a science, you will come to find that it leaves more questions open ended than answered, and that the rabbit hole only gets deeper. Quantum physics, chemical and neurological programming, the energetic balances of the Universe, energetic psychology, etc. are all studies of metaphysics, whereas religions have one book of rules and one leader who decides what is to be believed, metaphysics and spirituality is philosophically oriented, meaning that it is open ended and no one can tell you what is ok and not ok to believe.

I have said this before, I believe in the use of the Bible as a spiritual tool, and if you look through my posts that I have made on the various theological discussions on this forum you will discover that I do not bash the Bible alone. I am open about the possibility of it being real, and open to it being a lie; which I will admit I find more probable.

I am against RELIGION for the spiritual and psychological boundaries it puts on people. That is my only reason for having such passion against it like I do, other than that to each their own, people will evolve when they are ready.

**Lipton I respect your opinions, I know the scriptures but where is the proof that they are fact? It is your opinion and belief they are fact, where is the proof**

Apparently, you don't believe in God. If you did, His word would be the only proof you need.

However, look around you. Look at your body. Are you trying to tell me it all was made of random chance?

Besides, the Bible has prophecies in it, that have been fulfilled.

Think about it. Keep going back in time. Back each generation. Where did the Bible come from? There is really no documented time that the Bible was written, save in the Bible itself. There is no "Published" date on it. You just keep going back and back and back, until you hit what?

Besides, there are other sources, as JPM has pointed out (the gilgamesh) that support the Bible in some ways.

**No I read the Quran not the bible, but I have studied Christianity at school and went to catholic schools through out my life, I do not have a Pastor I have a Sheik and he tells me differently**

Okay, what I'm trying to say is, we, as human beings, have access to the original, untranslated word of God. If you have a problem with the English version, learn Greek and Hebrew, and translate it yourself.

**I can read, don't belittle me we are having a intelligent conversation here and comments like that only take away from the validity of the points you are making. I respect these points, simply don't agree with them is all. I understand you have already spoken to me about these points but your rebuttles are the same opinions and belief and all I am requesting is your proof**

I still have yet to see my opinions. So far, I can see I use factual evidence or plain sense to support my reasonings...

**I understand that also, that goes for all the great books Lipton but human nature is fickle, and again you cannot gurantee that humans have not altered these words, touchy about it or not. After all we are human...and we make mistakes, we are greedy**

Greedy for what? Power? Well, I can assure you there would be some sort of uprising about changing the Bible. Not only that, but if these greedy people were to alter the Bible, and send it out, someone would have noticed it, because it would have been different from the Bible they've had for several years. It would have been documented.

Not only that, but by this reasoning, does that mean the Harry Potter books will eventually alter as well? Is any of Edgar Allen's work, that we have today, the same as it was then? What about histories of early civilizations and such. How do we know about them, if the information we have today may have been altered because, we're human, and make mistakes?

"No, I am not God, or Jesus. However, most of what I say, when speaking about proof of the Bible, or whatever, I try to use God's and Jesus's words."

**And where are Jesus or Gods words anywhere in what you stated above expect your scripture quote?**

I didn't realize I was trying to prove the validity of the Bible here. For that, I did quote 2 Tim 3:16 for you.
As far as I've seen this conversation, so far, it's just been you coming back at me saying my ideas are just that, ideas. Not that we were trying to prove the Bible.

**Opinions cannot lie, as they are just that opinions - I never claimed you were lying just that you were stating opinions of your own, and not proven facts, and opinions can be be used in a religious discussion as far as I am concerned. For the fact that there are so many religions how can everyones "facts" as you call them be true, they are beliefs and opinions we believe to be true...there is a difference between that and proven fact**

I was using "lie" as in, "Where are they? Where do they reside?" Not, that my opinions are lying to someone or whatever. I totally agree that opinions cannot lie.

**Again you said you have used NO opinion in replying to Kaitlin's statement about the bible being fantasy and legend...your above statement is completely opinionated, no fact nor religious reference**

Maybe no reference, but it uses common sense.

Her statement basically does say, "I don't believe in the Bible," I never had any opinion in saying that. And my questions were just that. Questions. There is no opinion in those questions. They were legitamate to the sense that they don't need any kind of historical/factual back-up.

Now, I say we move on to something else, because this is wasting life. We're discussing the same quotes over and over again.

~Ciao Lipton

"-I think you people are wasting time debating whether the Bible is factual or not. That's not the point of it."

You do have a point. There's no way my mind is changing, and I don't believe I'm going to change any minds. The only way to really find out is to die...

But we're wierd, and have no life, so what else are we supposed to do? XD

~Ciao Lipton

One moment in time seen with pure clarity that defies explaination and logic. That's all it takes.

Book smarts is actually something I have none of.

The mature outlook on life is one that understands and can pin point the grays, the blacks, and the whites, and deal with them accordingly.

I don’t BASH the Bible. I say why it COULD BE wrong. I play devils advocate all the time, because it is so easy to sway opinion with contradicting logic. I share with people why I have dismissed it, and my logic works for me. It doesn’t need to work for anyone else, and as for contradicting myself in general, the next time I do so please point it out for me and I will illustrate how I am right or indifferent on the occasion.

My arguments are well thought out, and I would no sooner contradict myself without reason than you would start writing your posts like a third grader, or one of these teenagers who TypS LiKe dYss.

Metaphysics is not something that is a faith-based belief, like religion. Metaphysics is something that is understood, being a science. My metaphysical understanding and my spiritual belief are two different things, although the second is contingent upon the first, in my case only; I cannot and will not speak for other people in that regard.

People will grow, or they wont.

All the Bible quoting and post quoting, trying to get people stuck in their arguments is not only a superfluous waste of time, but it only goes to show how desperate people are to prove their opinions have validity. Its almost like- “who are you trying to prove this to?”

Rationalization only does so much.

"Stories or better said folk-tales handed down generation by generation, not in scripture but oral. If I tell you a story and you tell it to someone else and so and so on, the story at the end of the line will vaguely resemble the original one. So how on earth can a story be exact after 1000+ years?"

Your first sentence is a fragment. I don't know what it is you're trying to say. However, if you're trying to say what I think you are:

The Bible was not told orally through 1000+ years.

"I don’t think god wrote one word of those books himself."

Someone should hand you a cookie. Read the rest of this thread.

"Yeah right, may I remember you to the fact that religion has been used to suppres people for thousands of years. How could people rise up against changes in the bible if a few hundred years ago almost nobody could read except for the clergy men?"

Martin Luther didn't have a problem fighting the Catholic church.

"Out of the bible, who is interpeted a million different ways by a million different people, if the words of your so called god are so clear, why are there so many forms of christianity?"

The Bible is not a "who" for one.

For two, I never said that the words were so clear. Straw Man.

"Guess what everyone who doesn’t believe in god uses common sense as well."

For one, not everyone.
For two, I never said they didn't.

~Ciao Lipton

Wow, there are two discussions going on at once... This is interesting.

~Ciao Lipton

Apparently, you don't believe in God. If you did, His word would be the only proof you need.

However, look around you. Look at your body. Are you trying to tell me it all was made of random chance?

**Apparently you haven’t read my comments correctly, I believe in Allah and following Islam. This does not mean Islam is the right religion, or more factual to other religions to me…it simply means I believe it is the true path for me. I am not an act of random chance, I am the result of human conception a gift granted to us by the Almighty Allah**

Besides, the Bible has prophecies in it, that have been fulfilled.

**So do the Nostradamus prophecies and many other prophecies**

Think about it. Keep going back in time. Back each generation. Where did the Bible come from? There is really no documented time that the Bible was written, save in the Bible itself. There is no "Published" date on it. You just keep going back and back and back, until you hit what?

Besides, there are other sources, as JPM has pointed out (the gilgamesh) that support the Bible in some ways.

**I am thinking back and back and I can see and also respect the point your stating – lets leave JPM out of conversation PLEASE LoL :o)**

Okay, what I'm trying to say is, we, as human beings, have access to the original, untranslated word of God. If you have a problem with the English version, learn Greek and Hebrew, and translate it yourself.

**What I am trying to say is that this is what we as human beings are lead to believe, none of us these days no this is the actual word of God as it was Jesus Christ (in Christianity) and Mohummed (in Islam) who received the word, not you Lipton, nor I. We have faith and believe in our hearts this is the truth, we have no proof and know no facts but those in our hearts and souls.**

I still have yet to see my opinions. So far, I can see I use factual evidence or plain sense to support my reasonings...

**Yet all I am able to see are your personal beliefs support your self justification of your own reasonings – I see beliefs and opinions and no proven facts – but still it’s a stimulating discussion Lipton which I can appreciate more than anything**

Greedy for what? Power? Well, I can assure you there would be some sort of uprising about changing the Bible. Not only that, but if these greedy people were to alter the Bible, and send it out, someone would have noticed it, because it would have been different from the Bible they've had for several years. It would have been documented.

**Greedy for everything Lipton, and through out time and the increasing value of money in society it has only gotten worse. I realise there would have been an uproar if someone did decide to make some selfish alterations, there have been “holy wars” all through out history. But no one standing before us today can prove that there hasn’t been one, nor can it be proved that there HAS been one, I am simply stating – it is possible**

Not only that, but by this reasoning, does that mean the Harry Potter books will eventually alter as well? Is any of Edgar Allen's work, that we have today, the same as it was then? What about histories of early civilizations and such. How do we know about them, if the information we have today may have been altered because, we're human, and make mistakes?

**Should society change in views on things – yeah Lipton they probably would change Harry Potter books. Heck – do you think it’s the exact way JK Rowlings (I hope I got that right please correct me if I am wrong) wrote it – from her mind to paper? Goodness no, its been edited and played with – that I can guarantee.

As for historical civilisations as the like, you’re right we do know a lot about them from our previous discoveries and research…but we don’t know everything, we know about what we have found and interpreted to be facts by analysing evidence – where is the biblical evidence**

I didn't realize I was trying to prove the validity of the Bible here. For that, I did quote 2 Tim 3:16 for you.
As far as I've seen this conversation, so far, it's just been you coming back at me saying my ideas are just that, ideas. Not that we were trying to prove the Bible.

**That is right – they are your ideas and beliefs and opinions. If they were as factual or accurate as you claim them to be – wouldn’t everyone be following Christianity?**

I was using "lie" as in, "Where are they? Where do they reside?" Not, that my opinions are lying to someone or whatever. I totally agree that opinions cannot lie.

**Yeah! We agreed on something Lipton LoL – Well that’s one step**

Maybe no reference, but it uses common sense.

**What you consider common sense – no what we all consider common sense because I didn’t see the common sense in it – I merely saw opinionated statements. Hey – define common sense**

Her statement basically does say, "I don't believe in the Bible," I never had any opinion in saying that. And my questions were just that. Questions. There is no opinion in those questions. They were legitamate to the sense that they don't need any kind of historical/factual back-up.

**That is right, I do not believe in the bible – I follow the Quran. They might be what you consider “legitimate facts” Lipton but I do see them as legitimate opinions. My point is that this is what YOU believe, not what everyone does**

Eirisa

PS: It is interesting :o)

Are you guys ever going to get sick of quoting each other, nit picking, getting defensive, and then getting nowhere?

By all means, keep it up if you think you are proving something, but both of you are obviously immovable. Its entertaining for the onlookers though ;)

Continue on...

Truly, I don't think we are proving anything. You're right, this conversation has turned from a discussion, to a nit-picking argument.

Of course, if you wish we continue, then I guess we can... =)

~Ciao Lipton

lol, Lipton, I love you. Always up for more (quite like myself, haha).

silent pete- If you just read the Bible you would realize that Jesus died, but He rose again in three days.

I would respond to silent Pete, but I can't even see a way of doing so without getting a tirade of the usual tired bible burning crap.

"anyone who belives what they read in a book that claims to be describing actual events without offering evidence is an idiot..."

do u have any evidence of that? or is that just wut u believe?

Im gunna agree to disagree Lipton thanks for the discussion :o)

"Old testament was."

By who? Right off the bat I can tell you Moses wrote the first five books of the OT, David wrote Psalms, King Solomon wrote Proverbs, and Song of Solomon, etc...

"?" (as to my "Straw Man" fallacy)

Straw man fallacy is the fallacy of putting words in one's mouth, and then using that as an argument.

YOU SAID:
"Out of the bible, who is interpeted a million different ways by a million different people, if the words of your so called god are so clear, why are there so many forms of christianity?"
I SAID:
"The Bible is not a "who" for one.

For two, I never said that the words were so clear. Straw Man."

You made an argument about something I didn't say. That is called a "Straw Man" fallacy.

"Your opinion
You implied it."

Not my opinion. A lot of people try to enter discussions without fully knowing what they're talking about. Just read this thread.

Also, you inferred that. I didn't say, nor did I imply it.

"Lipton is right, this sucks and I suck at arguing/dicussing in english anyway. Disussion closed."

Discussion not closed just because you think you suck. You can be done with it, but the rest of it is still debateable with the rest of us.

~Ciao Lipton

Kaitlin:
I try -_-

Eirisa:
You're welcome. Same to you. ^_^

~Ciao Lipton

Silent Pete: There is so much logical backing that you could have pulled for your argument. Next time just offer it and you will seem much more convincing, because your statement has broad basis.

But Bret was right, I would only get quotes back, and I dont want to deal with that.

And Lipton, lol, just had to get the last word. Love it.

As for proof of the Bible, which I saw to be hinted at somewhat throughout the discussion:

The Bible cannot be proven outside of itself. Yes, there are people that believe it can be, but truly, the Bible is unprovable (a word?) by any outside sources. That is why one must have faith to be a Christian.

As per why one has faith, because one can, because one wants to. You don't believe it? That's fine. You don't have to, if you don't want to. If you're tired of people saying, "You will go to Hell if you don't believe!" Ignore them. Don't try to rouse an argument, because it will always boil down to:

I have faith that the Bible is true.

You don't.

We are then at an impasse, and the hours we spent debating have gone up in flames.

Anyway, that's my bit for the day... Now, I'm going to sleep... z_z

~Ciao Lipton

Kaitlin:
I try -_-

Oh, wait...

~Ciao Lipton

Goodnight everyone!

Amen, Lipton. Sleep well.

Broken hearted: Like...?

~Ciao Lipton

Jesus Is Real, But I've Got a Great Idea Don't Believe In Him Keep Doubting! And I'll Send You Postcards From Heaven Billions Of Years Later While Your In Hell xoxo-Nikki-xoxo