Religion: hot topic...sorry!!!! just confused.....

People can use the influence of religion in their lives for good or for evil, depending on what religion they choose to follow and how its principles are interpreted. Personally I believe that religion has brought far more good to the world than harm. But maybe that's because I believe generally in the goodness of humanity.

You could apply the same questions to any of the influences in modern society that we normally consider to be beneficial. For example, does education make you a better person? Education can certainly be used for good purposes. But education has also endowed people with the means to carry out some horrible acts. Wasn't it through education that Hitler acquired the literary skill to write Mein Kampf?

I think it is really how individuals choose to be influenced by religion or education or liberty, etc. that matters most.

Im a Christian and I think the answer to all three of your questions are "YES and NO" :D lol

1. There has been many cases where crimial turned their hearts to God and became a much better person... while there are also many "bad" people who claims to be Christian...

2. Religion supposedly teaches you tolerance, but not many people can be taught :) Jesus did say "If someone slaps you left cheek, let him slap your right cheek also"... if someone slaps my left cheek, I'll show him what I know from Judo....

3. This is really a combination of 1 and 2... Religion can change your life but I don't think so on the personality, for that defines who we are... That would be scary if all the people in the same religion acts and talks the same.... so no, grumpy people will still be grumpy, stubborn people still stubborn, happy people still happy...

My ex gf once told me that religion is merely a relationship... a relationship with God. Just like a bf/gf relationship, it can be great and it can turn bad, and boths sides must feel the same for it to work... but in this case, you call the shot, God is always there and always loving... you just have to love him back.

1. I think YOU make you a better person. The moral effects of religion are simple, it lays out a set of rules to be followed, with the desired effect of making you a better person. But you can makes these rules yourself without religion, and you can pretend to be a member of a faith and still break its rules.

2. Yeh, tolerance is iffy. Heck, not all religions even teach tolerance. When it comes down to it, religions are just different sets of codes and beliefs. Some of them preach brotherhood and understanding (e.g Christianity and particularly Islam), and others don't do much about it at all (e.g. Wicca).

3. Are certain people drawn to religion, or does religion make certain people? No idea, but I bet it is a combination of both.

This discussion brings to mind a poem called "The Blind Men and the Elephant" by John Godfrey Saxe.

reilgion. I can't say I beilve and I can't say I don't. I don't beilve in modern day reiligion. I'm not a christian and i'm not a catholic. I do beilve in gods & goddess. However why I bielve this I couldn't tell you a honest answer. Its just something I feel. And thats about all I could explain it. But I could tell you a million reason why i'm not a christian or any reilgion that is titled. What is religion? To me its just a feeling. Somedays I wake up thinking what i beilve in the wrong thing, what if hell is real and what if i go to hell for not beilving in "god". What if's drive me nuts day after day. ANd the more i talk to my husband about how confused I am the more he lets me know that religon is just something that people need in order to look up to somebody. What you beilve in is not wrong. To each there own I guess. But to each there own is right. If that makes sence. What i'm trying to say is that you don't have to title what you beilve in or even search for a "religion". It will eventully come to you and when you feel the right thing inside you, then you'll know that this is what you beilve.

OK

I am not here to argue with idiots that claim dinosaurs are in the bible, and that the earth is 10000 years old. Cause u r idiots.. end of story

Evil - view of wrongdoing

Gd - View of doing right

Perception - a view formed by an individual regarding a matter

Human - ignorant creature who wil beleive anything they are told up to a certain age, who cannot form any truths in their head because there are several answers to everything. And each human views something differently except those who follow blindly (being the biggest fools of all).

So.. to sum up

Human (fool) has perception ( idea) of evil (wrong) / gd (right)

hmm now lets just summarise that idiot, thinks of situation as right or wrong... ok..

Man kills own son because son is a nasty guy who hits mother, but only mildly

is that right? or wrong?

now you see about 78% wud say thats wrong, and evil and 22% wud say thats justified, well you're both wrong I'm sorry because you cannot comprehend the sitution as you are all fools.

So what have you learned?

gd and evil don't exist because everyone has no real concept of what they are and because different people have distorted forms of it or just different forms.

look at murdering a child from a mass murderers view, not your own, he sees no wrong in doing it, its ok to him,. does that make him evil? nope it ameks him a fool ..

soo gd and evil don't exist ok.. its humans eh

without gd theres no heaven, because lets face it ' god is imperfect' its in the bible, god apologizes many times such as in genesis when he realised he shudnt have killed all the humans on the earth when noah is saved. If god isnt perfect he therefore cannot forge coherence on what gd is.. hmm because its his imperfect personal view

without god theres no heaven and no hell.. meaning you are alone..

is this bad no.. it isn't. it means you are you try to mediate on this, all you can do is live, death is fast and quick and after you die you can't think about it so don't worry. When you die its just liek pulling a plug, that you dont know of, you cud die right now.

Just enjoy life to the full thats all you have, all you have is living and continueing the human race, happiness is all that is relevent

In my experience "religion" can be a misguiding/misguided church, or it can be a true power. Now I can't mention "God" because not all are Christians here, but personally i believe in a higher power that guides us daily, and who has made a destiny for us that we cannot understand yet. I won't say too much. religion is a very sensitive subject.

//Truest Lies//

”religion is confusing to me”
I believe religion confuses a lot of folks

”1.does religion make you a better person?’
In my opinion religion has been abused, and to many it is a term which is misunderstood. To me it is a spiritual path, and spiritual virtues can make better people.

2.” does it teach you tolerance”
virtuous paths should teach tolerance

3." does it greatly influence your life and your personality?" I believe so

”I am just wondering....I have been raised as a protestant.....and in Europe protestants were burned alive by Catholics in the 17th century”

I was raised Catholic, and the Catholic inquisition condemned a very young French girl to be burned at the stake after she was sold to the English by their French allies I do not condone these horrible acts of cruelty. I can see how it is confusing that the human impurities have always corrupted the very authorities of the church.
Of course the young French girl was Saint Joan of Arc canonized by the Catholic church years latter

Giordano Bruno (1548-1600), was an Italian philosopher, priest, astronomer, and occultist. Bruno is perhaps best known for his system of mnemonics and as an early proponent of the idea of extrasolar planets and extraterrestrial life. Burned at the stake as a heretic for his theological ideas, Bruno is seen by some as a martyr to the cause of free thought.

,” i think. also, hitler did believe in god”
Hitler is not remembered by most for his humility, or his communion with God

.....for some reason, i imagine that believers should be much better than me ..maybe i kinda idealize them....i don't know. or maybe i believe. but i do not really pray because i figure he is omniscient and can read my thoughts....and then there is my family: narrow minded people....but my grandmother must be praying like a hundred times a day....so where is their tolerance?? doesn't god teach you tolerance???

Your grandmother probably has the wisdom to know that human tolerance is at best a temporary illusion. Spiritual tolerance can only be gained through communion with God.

To a stupid deluded person: It will make him ignorant, omni phobic, bigoted and someone who will twist words quite easily.

To a smart person: It will be just a stepping stone to living his/her own lives in a more honest happy go lucky life….Lol. I know too whimsical, but religion is just a guide book, nothing more, nothing less.

but gd ppl dont do gd things, thats all garbage..

people do what makes them feel good, evil or good are just stereotypes.. no person is evil or does evil things, if u look into an 'evil' as you put it persons mind hes just a person.. people arent evil and can't commit evil. People are fools not evil, Hitler was a clever guy who became blinded by power and wanted to help the earth in a deluded way, he wasn't evil and his views were not, he was a fool, end of story. If you believe he was evil you don't understand any human or even who you are.

You've all been brainwashed into thinking how u do..

ur parents, ur teachers, the only way you will ever understand this world is to think for yourself and question things and then decide whether they are true, please don't just quote ppl without understanding what you are saying

David, I suggest you read over your post. Because you absolutely made no sense whatsoever.

I can understand the duality and frailty of the two opposing natures: Good and evil.

But it still has nothing to do with the post thread.

Religion Has Greatly Influenced My Life And My Personality, The Reason Why I Do Half Of What I Do Is Because My Religion Has a Strong Influence On Me To Do So...There Is a Such Thing Called Religous Tolerance, Thats Something Strongly Enforced In The Catholic Religon, No Matter What Christian Denomination Your Under, Religous Tolerance Follows, God Instills Tolerance In Your Heart....Wow Its Hard To Explain Sweety xoxo-Nikki-xoxo

k ive been called a satan worshiper for my beliefs im wiccan, and for me it didn't make me a better person, it did teach me tolarence and it doesn't really influence my life because no one really knows. it depends on the type of personyou are, not whether you have a religion or not.

k ive been called a satan worshiper for my beliefs im wiccan, and for me it didn't make me a better person, it did teach me tolarence and it doesn't really influence my life because no one really knows. it depends on the type of personyou are, not whether you have a religion or not.

The answer to all your questions is YES :O)

But because you do not have a religion does not make you any less of a person either...

all im saying is that an imperfect being cannot comprehend gd and evil,

god is imperfect as written in the bible and therefore cannot exist because this is completely flawed, an imperfect god cannot be usefull and cannot say who goes to heaven and who goes to hell because he can't make any 100% perfect choices.

not to mention that by accepting things as they r instead of turning to false religions can help u understand the world, once u understand that you are imperfect, and that no one is evil or good you might start to learn.

No Zealot can understand the world ever because they r blinded by stupidity and follow rather than question.

Religion is ignorance and ignorance is bliss

Again David, I suggest you read your post thoroughly because all you seem to be doing is nothing short than ranting your hate on religion.

God is not imperfect if he was, he would not be a god, rather a demi-god. He personifies ultimate good, and the devil is the scapegoat and personifies ultimate evil. Now both of them must exist to make the universe as it is now. A amalgam of the two.

We are but a mixture of good and evil, therefore we can comprehend what it is, and where the lines are.

Religion is and will always be a guiding path to all those who seek it.

Nothing more
Nothing less.

but there r parts of the church which believe god to be imperfect, and he does a stuff he regrets,

a perfect being cannot do anything he regrets, because his entire judgement is perfect.

read genesis, the entire noahs arc section!!!! there are other random parts fo the bible which support this.

and again i tell u that u r imperfect creatures and cannot discern between good and evil, all your views on it can never be proved to be right same as mine, which is why i don't believe in gd and evil i believe in people

David, do you believe that the darkness exist, or is it just the absence of light?

'god is imperfect as written in the bible and therefore cannot exist because this is completely flawed, an imperfect god cannot be usefull and cannot say who goes to heaven and who goes to hell because he can't make any 100% perfect choices.'
Why doesn't he exist if he is imperfect? who says he has to be 'usefull'? Just because he has great power and is the creator does not make him intrinsically, for search of a better word, 'perfect' Who is to say he is not evil, i mean there are many examples in the world of how unfair and imperfect things can be.

'a perfect being cannot do anything he regrets, because his entire judgement is perfect.'

How about if he was forced to make a choice that had two equally bad outcomes for example if he had to choose (hypothetically) to end the life of a man who swears he will murder somebody. If he decides the person would die then that could be perceived as evil because he is killing an innocent man.
However if he lets the man live and the man kills somebody then that would also be perceived as evil. So no matter how good his judgement is he can still regret doing things
I agree with Ismail here, you seem to be very narrowmindedly forcing your anti-religious thoughs on us, with out thinking what you are saying.

stil a perfect being, cannot feel regret, he knows full well hes made the best decision.

Theres another part of the bible where god gives into the devil and temptation.. I know this ain't a great help cause i can't remember which part it is lol, but God is rewarding this guy and hes prays and has a good life, and the devil comes down and says that the guy only has a gd life because god rewards him for his praying and service to god. So god kills the guys sheep, livestock and burns the guys house down, kills his servants and wife.. and the guy still prays to god..

now that is exactly the thing i'm talking about, in the bible you are never to talk to the devil not even if you are jesus himself, because he will tempt you. And God himself gives in which is a blantant act of imperfection.

an imperfect being cannot discern who goes to heaven and hell.. i've already said that.. earlier thats my point

its not that im anti religion, i accept that some ppl benefit from religion, in scientology (one of the most idiotic religions) (if u dont't believe that read about it www.xenu.net) actually helps people regain their confidence and thats all fine and dandy, but the bad part is it makes them believe in the intergalactic warlord Xenu, who's denying them superpowers...

now thats plain garbage.. i can accept some of the scientology but thats unfeasible not to mention that scientology was invented by a science fiction novelist.

similar things apply to other religions, pros and cons, depending exactly how deep or what parts of religion you accept it can be foolish or actually benefitial

But many just use it to ignore the problems in the world, they won't accept that they have to die and prefer to see a shiny version of what life is rather than reality. They can't accept anything bad and hide from it like mice.

Its people that are extremely into it that i don't like. People who value it over science or reason, or islamic militants and terrorists who use it as an excuse to become violent and spur all their frustration into it.

The fundamentals of religion like the 10 commandments moses was given are all so deeply rooted in society that they don't really apply to christianity at all anymore because they r automatic to us, after all i don't follow christianity and i don't steal, murder ppl or so on and i don't want to.

I'm not narrow minded , but neither of you have given me any reason why im wrong, all you do is critisice or offer explanations that don't really answer to what im saying.

'an imperfect being cannot discern who goes to heaven and hell.. i've already said that.. earlier thats my point'

you still havnt explained properly why an imperfect being can't discern who goes to heaven and hell.

Also you say
'Theres another part of the bible where god gives into the devil and temptation.. I know this ain't a great help cause i can't remember which part it is lol, but God is rewarding this guy and hes prays and has a good life, and the devil comes down and says that the guy only has a gd life because god rewards him for his praying and service to god. So god kills the guys sheep, livestock and burns the guys house down, kills his servants and wife.. and the guy still prays to god..'

Now here you are assuming that the bible should be read litteraly when in fact most followers of the religion read it as a metaphor.

I'm not narrow minded , but neither of you have given me any reason why im wrong, all you do is critisice or offer explanations that don't really answer to what im saying.

I am not saying you are wrong all i am saying is that you should be more tollerant to other people's beliefs; just because you think it is a load of garbage doesn't mean it is a load of garbage.

(edited out double post)

The story of Job is difficult to interpret from an objective point of view.

Let us suppose that a medical doctor was treating a patient that you cared about, and informed you that it would take a miracle for them to survive their affliction. How would you interpret that?

1.does religion make you a better person? It could.

2. does it teach you tolerance? There's a possibility.

3. does it greatly influence your life and your personality?? There's a 50/50 chance that it could...

It's all of what you make of it. Some people spend so much time trying to make their ideas seem right and so holy that they forget that we are all individuals. Not everyone is going to have the exact same thoughts as the other person.

Make your own thoughts about religion...see how YOU stand on it.

-Nora-

im not gunna bother any more, cause i explain things and then u ask again.. lol.. an imperfect being, cannot discern between good and evil because he cant tell u what they are.An imperfect being has no chance of ever being 100% right they are bound by flaws and can do the exact wrong thing with great ease when they mean to do right. I cannot say im 100% right about what i talk about but at least i understand that i'm not good or evil but just me.. thats all i can say in this world, I am me. I'm not a name, I'm not a specific good, evil..

***

I'm me and im imperfect but i understand that i am and you are and we all are. By understanding why people do the things they do, you can understand nothing in this world is good or evil its just an interpretation, we believe this because we've been brought up to believe and think this way, everything is not your beliefs they are someone elses. Its ok if you agree with them but to challenge them first and then decide is the path to true wisdom and understanding.

**No 1 view is correct, there is no good, there is no evil,

**because all acts are indefinable as good or evil by any means

** because there are people who believe any situation to be good or evil so it cant be either as neither creature is perfect and cannot form a 100% argument, convince the other, or proove anything.

***

and scientology is pretty damn bad, as i said read up at www.xenu.net this religion brainwash's people into believing absurd stuff. It does actually apply brainwashing techniques in it.

And michael without good and without evil there is neither the 2 metaphors dark or light..

Religion in a pure form can nourish the soul, as milk can nourish the body
Milk is good for most people. When milk becomes infested with harmful bacteria it is not good for you. And what is not good is bad

David you are correct that I intended light as a metaphor for good. But light is as often used as a metaphor for truth. Do you have a problem with truth?

you can't ask anybody about religion b/c it is different for everybody...if you truly believe in it it will give you strength, but if you are skeptical then you are wasting your time...i personally have no opinion on the topic of religion, b/c i have never been shown any real proof other than the theory of evolution, but even that cannot take us all the way back

Talendor:

“God is not imperfect if he was, he would not be a god, rather a demi-god.

^^^Are you saying the Greek Gods and all the polytheistic religions don't have real gods? Just Demi-Gods?”

Ok…Yes, they were demi-gods, or at least parts of who we are. The Greeks and other polytheistic religions, believe that dividing the each section of the universe and embodying it with a character much like them, that is and was a flaw to begin with. How can you worship a god, that rapes and ravages and delights the way they do. How can you worship a god, that abuses his/her power all in the name of jealousy and envy? How can you worship a god that is very similar to humanities’ characteristics.

As you can see Talendor, the Greek gods have become stories and myths, that entertains man again and again.

Hinduism, is a mystery to me, because they have the same principals as polytheistic religions, yet they believe that all of them are but extensions of one al-mighty god.

A mystery indeed.

Religion is a guide, you either follow it, or stray from it. Your choice!

Sayonara...

truth is what humans need to embody,
once this happens people will understand others easier,
accept that they are human and who they are, but this has little to do with religion, except for those who use religion to shield themselves from them truth, but as was said earlier by ismail, religion is a guide, it doesn't hold all the answers.

It might not hold all the answers but it does give great answers to age old questions.

Religion doesn't change crap

My support for that statement is thus;

1. people will find a way to bend the guidlines of religion or will ignore a part they dislike

2. religion does not teach any morals or what is right or wrong; the child's parents are the cause for morals and ethics and whatever else there is

3. people desire power, it is a basic element in humanity, females are attracted to power (which is one reason why they love movie stars because they are rich and famous, money = power) and males to attract females will inevitably (spl?) try to gain power by any means and will use religion as a catapult to power, take the Crusades against Muslims, the kings wanted the rich land of Jerusalem - maybe not necessarily for a females attention, greed was a vital part of it and the Kings used the whole "God wills us to take the holy land" crap.

1. Yes if your religion gets you close to God yes.
2. Tolerence against people yes
3. Yes i was heading for the wrost well in my situation but my religion got me closer to God ansd since then i did not thik of doing it again

Let’s as you suggest, take a look at the bible only from a speculative objective point of view. I wonder how anyone could sit down with a quill and write the bible without faith that it would be accepted by the masses?

So you do believe the bible, or parts of the books of the bible were written before the common era, and not by someone?

probelm is.. that no one was around when theses biblical events happened, the disciples were not 4.55 billion years old.. where do the stories come from..? did they sit down and have a lengthly discussion with 'God' who doesn't really do that sort of thing.. you'll most likely find that pretty much all religions are created through greed and power.. the chruch was always fairly corrupt in those days, now it has no power in england at least.. and they cudnt really wave any power..

the people who create these religions are elevated to gods by the followers, mormens are a good example.

he 'finds' some 'gold plates' burried under a 'random hill' which an angel 'randomly' appears and tells him about.. and it says that the jews went to america.. when moses lead them to the promised land... well where are they??? are they the native indians.. who don't follow god?

and then he funds a religion on it.. strange enough no one has ever seen these plates and no one except mr morman ever saw them, and they disapeered after his death.. cough

yeeaa. he then applys gd rules and more rights for women to get them to join his religion/society

and bingo.. loads of women join some who drag their husbands along others find there aint as many men .. he then releases laws allowing multiple wifes.. and bingo hes got tons of women, money , his own town, his own army.. . . and the breeding of his society is enormous..