God or Evolution?

To believe that god came before evolution could seem to be common sense however without dismissing the theory that evolution evolved without a God could also seem justified....but how could evolution ever taken place without a higher being to have pushed it forward?

My beliefe is that God/higher being had to have existed for evolution to have evolved....

how about you?
what do you think?

Alright. Well, the way I see it, one belief (whether it be the scientific one or the religious one) is very wrong. Or maybe they're both wrong? I don't know, but truthfully I don't mind not knowing... Leaves more to the imagination and less questions about why things don't make sense. Because, in science we're always being taught a bunch of different things, and so many concepts destroy any reason to believe in God or evolution. Truthfully, even the big bang theory doesn't make a lot of sense, but only because of that stupid little quote "Matter cannot be made or destroyed, only changed''. How did matter become matter? There wasn't just a spark and then, there everything was. Right?
And if God had started it all, who started God? Was that just another spark too? And then *bam* some higher being?
Well I don't know about anyone else, but these random sparks seem wonderful. I can't wait till it happens, and we find another planet made of chocolate. Mmmmm, I want chocolate.

Not again.....I can't discuss this again!!

God is everything, Evolution is the changing mind of Gods ideas for everything alive.

Pah.

Kevin's right. This is beating a dead horse. These debates always make people crazy and don't actually shed any new light on the matter.

I don't believe in the evolution theory, or the creation theory.

I don't know how everything got created, but I just don't think it's by either of those two theories.

God is a kiwifruit!

evolution, creation... believe what YOU want to believe and try not to enforce your beliefs upon others.

I understand that most people don't believe in God or a higher being because they can't see him.
But there are a lot of things that you can't see, but all the same, you believe.
That's why it's called faith.

//T.L.//

^^ true...like the wind...you cant see wind exactly, you just see the effects it leaves for example on tree branches or whatever

I do believe God created this earth...I believe in God period...I have seen a miracle before my eyes before in a church and that is how I know there is a God...I have respect for those believe in evolution...but i don't understand it...if people think we came from monkeys and apes ( what kind of monkey do people who believe in evolution think we came from?) why are they still around...what made them stop having monkey babies who turned into human? Another question, if anyone who does believe in it could you answer please...I'd like to know someones personal oponion on what makes them think we really come from a monkey...I've asked someone before and they said that its because humans are hairy and how else would we get it? Well to me, I believe in what the bible says, because when man was created there were no clothes and God made us with hair all over our bodies to keep up warm (mostly back then)

its hard to educate someone on evolution without it taking quite some time...If you understand what "survival of the fittest" and natural selection would mean to the average genotype of, for instance, a population of monkeys if the climate suddenly changed dramatically, you are off to a good start.

I apologize for the lack of good english in this post, but I have only been taught this in Norwegian.

And yes, I strongly believe in evolution, as there are thousands of prooves of it actually happening.

first off, this argument will never ever be settled in our life time.

here is my opinion

i understand one celled organisms evolved into multi celled and they evolved into fish which walked on land after millions of years of dying trying to get out, which evolved into reptiles..... here is where i am confused, how did reptiles evolve into mammals

Of course it'll never be settled... but I, at least, think it's still fun to discuss.

lol aint that the truth.

I don't really wanna get into this subject because honestly it makes me kind of mad, but to put what I believe out there.. I believe that God was the one that created us, the world, and all living things in it.

“Kevin's right. This is beating a dead horse. These debates always make people crazy and don't actually shed any new light on the matter.”

I agree that it is difficult to shed new light on this subject. But in the metaphorical sense many philosophers and poets have changed our concept of the light. It is easy for me to see why our ancestors viewed the sun as a light that revolved around the earth. Many religious authorities defended this illusion with zeal. Ideally science, philosophy, and religion should unite under one goal. Preferably the goal should be to seek the truth.
I believe that the story of Genesis contains subjective truth.

Quiz’ What great religious leader believed that there was enough evidence to prove that evolution is scientific fact?

God's evolution... the perfection... in our muscles our brain... our movements... god... it's hard to explain but God created this is all.. because one day everything didn't just appear...

Most of us seem to perceive a parallel between time and perfection, depending on our perception of perfection. A cave may be perfectly dark, yet darkness may not be perceived as perfection. It is interesting to me that in genesis the inspired author did not refer to any creation as perfect. Even when God created the light He saw that it was good.
In other words if you believe that the light is equal to our sun, God gave it a four according to the rating scale on this site. Our sun in fact is a perfect source of light for this planet. I perceive evolution as an effect not a cause. I perceive the Creator as the cause not the effect

that is a damn good way of putting it michael. I have never heard it like that, and it makes a ton of sense. And I like the way you point out people's flaws with interpreting the Bible. They have a tendency to exagerate teh scriptures.

Thank you Cory,
It may come as a surprise to many that the late pope was quoted as saying that he believed that there was enough evidence to prove the theory of evolution
I remember arguing, with my mother and my aunt Agnes that the theory of evolution was accepted as fact. In those days I believe that I viewed evolution as not being compatible with my faith. I have come to perceive creation as an ongoing progress. I dislike being perceived as the dogmatic Catholics that my mother and aunt where, even though I loved them dearly . I believe that this debate has been going on for centuries in many forms and I believe I understand the confusion brought about by narrow mindedness on both sides. In the end we all have to admit we cannot explain a complex universe in a discussion forum

and what most people dont understand is that when a scientist uses the word evolution, he isn't usually speaking of the whole single cell organism to frog thing. Usually the scientist is speaking of the small things, that christians call adaptation, like humans lungs expanding and contracting depending upon altitudes raised in , etc. I think the problem is that both sides sit in too much ignorance of the actual definitions and intentions of the words being used by the other side.

Why is it impossible to mix science with religion? Why is there this invisible barrier that prevents us from learning how God (be he/she or it) made us and the world we live in?

Why can't earth be God's little experiment with life? He sows a seed and watches it develop. We do it every year in the garden, is it so difficult to think that God may have done the same?

Why is it always black and white when everyone knows that there are only shades of grey?

I know what Kevin was talking about when he referred to this thread as another one of those threads. I remember the first time I entered these forums it was in a thread entitled ‘do you believe in god’.
We all got crazy. In order to invoke emotion into my apposition I repeatedly referred them as accidentally highly evolved apes. I was surprised that to one of the most scientific minded persons in that discussion, the word he was most offended by was accidentally I gathered from what he told me that scientist prefer to think in terms of variables even though I believe some evolutionist use the term random

From that discussion I also learned about Occam's razor (also spelled Ockham's razor) is a principle attributed to the 14th-century English logician and Franciscan friar William of Ockham. Originally a tenet of the reductionist philosophy of nominalism, it is more often taken today as a heuristic maxim that advises economy, parsimony, or simplicity in scientific theories. Occam's razor states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory.

The funny thing was when he said that scientifically that there was not enough empirical evidence to prove the existence of God he sited the Occam’s razor as being widely used by mainstream regarded scientist

On the other end of the scale Giordano Bruno (1548–February 17, 1600) was an Italian philosopher, priest, astronomer/astrologer, and occultist. Bruno is perhaps best known for his system of mnemonics and as an early proponent of the idea of extrasolar planets and extraterrestrial life. Burned at the stake as a heretic for his theological ideas, Bruno is seen by some as a martyr to the cause of free thought.

By the way Nicolaus Copernicus was a catholic bishop who created the "Heliocentric Theory" which is that the Earth and other planets revolved around the sun. Until then, everyone thought that the Earth was the center of the universe because they could see the sun and other planets move across the sky and it looked like they were going around the earth.

My point is that church and science have always had conflicts

Gott oder die Evolution?

Entwicklung durch Gott.

Did you know that Darwin, who came up with this evolution theory, confessed in his deathbed that he made it up?

Hmmm that makes God a voyeur. Be mindful of that next time you shower or have a shuffle.

I think the theory of intelligent design was accurate, and I'm not asking anyone to agree with me. I just find that an answer to how we have minds, and how we think and develop.

I kind of agree with Bianca.

Just an opinion.

It would be a revolting development if the Creator revolted against creation
I am fascinated by the universal laws of the universe, Failure to adapt to progress results in extinction

okay, say it with me, Intelligent design is not a theory. it's a faith-based idea. Faith has absolutely nothing to do with scientific fact. it doesn't necessarily contradict it, but it cannot be mistaken for it. that's why it's called "faith." you believe in it because you choose to, because you want to, or need to. but it is not fact, facts are fixed and have no mercy for one's feelings, and therefore, ID cannot call itself a theory.

Have any scientist recreated the condition necessary for primordial soup in the laboratory that would theoretically convert inorganic matter to organic matter?

i dont like either way, they both seem like a load of shit, so i gave up caring...

It's God for me. I don't think I have to justify why. There are those who will understand and those who will remain ignorant for the rest of their cluless lives.

Thought I'd be of slight randomness there.

God bless,
-Elysium.

So if people don't understand you pov then that makes them ignorant? And that they are clueless? Personally, I think that's a little rude or judgemental... whichever you prefer.

Michael, do you mean something like this?

http://www.accessexcellence.org/BF/bf02/awramik/bf02a2.html

Of course, it is difficult to recreate a process that (as science would suggest) takes millions of years in a test tube over a period of minutes, hours, days, months or years.

And my question (again) is why is it seemingly impossible for science and faith to work together? Does the explaination of life detract from the power of faith or affirm it?

You can find elements of science in the bible, so why cannot people find elements of the bible in science so to help affirm our beliefs what ever they may be?

Thank you Bret I was not sure that had ever been done before. To answer one of your questions I think the more answers we find about the laws of nature for me it affirms my faith because it shows how finite mans knowledge of life is. Every time one performs an experiment with the exact variables the results are the same.
It seems that the laws of nature are the only constant in an ‘ever changing’ universe
With my limited knowledge, I believe that the natural is a fragment of the supernatural. Somewhere in my nature is the desire to explore philosophy. But like the first ape that stood upright to free his hands I like to monkey around with ideas

The inspired author of genesis was indeed poetic and we have eaten from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil

if god really made the world, it wouldn't be such a damned place,
and then there are ppl that say that all bad things are just a test in faith...............right, just tell that to those who have a terminal disease or so
god just isn't
and if you do believe, I had a very nice t shirt which said" religion ist heilbar" ( religion is cureable)
so ,evolution

It's called free will. God made us and it is up to us to stay on the path.

As for cancers and terminal disease, they're a part of life, tests we have to face. If your sole reason for denying God is because everything isn't rosy in this world I can only compare you to an ostrich hiding from predators or a little kid that hides under the pillow, fingers in his ears shouting "lalalalala bing bong bing bong lalalala can't hear you!"

If everything was rosy life would be boring.

"If everything was rosy life would be boring"

if everything was rosy this would be utopia...............now, just why would god not want that, why does faith need to be tested ,
simple; because it's not real, fantasie , to make bad things seem less bad

"God ain't there.. so for now, I'm going with evolution. It's a scientific fact."
that i like

Evolution vs. Creation?

Creation has no evidence.

Evolution has evidence that can be proven true.

Therefore... I go with Evolution. Look at the scientific research and evidence, their proof clearly states that we evolved from the common ancestors as apes.

"its just that some awnsers are not meant to be known"

I agree with that

I think religion can sometimes work with science, but religion takes leaps that science can't accept -- because they're based on faith and not scientific fact. The greater the distance between the two determines the amount of strain on the relationship. Religion can use science to prove it's beliefs, it's not required, or necessarily plausible, but it can and has been done before. Science can use religion as another way to search for the greater causes of age-old questions. They have to be willing to say, "Okay, I believe this way, and you believe this way, and niether of us are going to change, so let's just use our seperate beliefs and put them to a use that benefits others." There can be no compromise. Their differences are the strength of the relationship. Attempts to discredit either side simply polarizes the effort and often (except in extreme cases) do more harm than good.