Opinions on abortion? - HELP!

Touching Story...I mean really...

But let's face facts Bob, you say that abortion actually murders a human being...Well then that is your opinion. I mean it may be judgemental but it is your opinion, just like a woman wanting to have an abortion. Some say it's murders, others say it's "partial suicide" but again you have to refer to the actual person (woman) having that abortion.

If she wants to rid herself from something she and her other created, then again it's her choice. I will not blame or judge her for her own decision...

The foetus cannot survive without it's mother, and if it's mother does not want it. Then it her own choice.

Instead of looking at the morality of this issue and condemn these women for what they are doing, because lord knows everyone is doing that. What we need to look at are the other problems that are actually effecting the "living" children.

But ofcourse children who are in adoptions and foster care are soo happy with their living arrangements...

Britt: This discussion is about abortion, and my post was refrenced to it...So when I made the quote you alledgedly took out of context, I meant it in reference to what is being said about abortion.

And like I said before in my previous post you failed to actually read. The foetus cannot survive without the mother, so if she does not want it in her body...Who am I to judge...

Did you get that Britt

Abortion to me is like "Partial suicide"....

Oh and if you felt that I was being rude, truly I am sorry...But in my opinion I felt I wasn't...If I was rude, you'll definitely know it Brittnay..or is it Brittney...One shall never know..

Lol...

Oh I forgot to mention why Abortion may be a form of partial suicide...Let me explain.

Since the child is in the mother's womb, and is therefore expelled from it, it is "partial suicide...

But again one must remember that a woman has the choice, and not everything according to many is just "Black and White"

I'm sure she would've guessed that much, Noir. And I've comprehended your point well, as much as Bobby and Britt have. To cut a very long and dreary novel short: if the mother is considering abortion yet desires opinions, that is exactly where 'we' come in. And would you like to know what my opinion is? I'll tell you: it'd be the biggest mistake she ever makes and will surely regret it for the rest of her life. Simple. There is no point of an extended discussion.

I would like to thank those who have stood by me as the opposition to the popular sentiment and i wish you the best of luck but i promised the moderators that i would not get too personal and i will honor my word. in closing all i can say is God help us.

I find it ironic that many of the people who are anti abortion either support bush's war (which as far as i know kills more innocent people each day that abortion does), or support war in general. rather contradictory.

this issue is too controversial, which is why i'm pro-choice. there shouldn't be any new or altered law on this issue. everyone has different morals and beliefs, the government should just stay out of it. people will never agree on this so don't try and force them to. i'm not expressing myself very well but oh well.

Ok well i definautly think abortion is wrong. heres some ideas that i have. the father of your unborn child and you need to have a talk. tell him that if he really wants this baby that he needs to get a job, or it won't work out very well. With you being 8 weeks pregnant, the baby is already growing inside of you. once it reaches i belive 20 weeks it will have organs and a heart. If you were to finally make up your mind around that time. it would be totally wrong to abort it. its already LIVING maybe not on his/her own but its alive. Plus you'll have plenty of support for your family and sister. Don't you think it would be fun going clothes shopping and stuff with your sister? she's already gone through what you may go through, she'll be able to help and tell you whats best for your baby. you have a lot of support. =)

Ok so i went to this pregnancy site and got this information for the 8th week of pregnancy

Your baby has a face! Your baby's features are becoming more predominant as his lips, tongue and nostrils, as well as the buds for 20 baby teeth are already present. The back muscles are growing along the spinal column, and his or her reproductive organs have started to form and soon will become either testes or ovaries. The arms and legs are growing while elbows and knees appear as well. The fingers and toes are starting to show but are still webbed. Your baby is about 8 - 11 mm or 0.31 - 0.43 inches in length.

The process of ossification (hardening of the bones) begins as the bones of the fingers and toes have already reached the first joint. Your baby is already getting smarter as his brain continues to develop and grow. Your baby starts to show signs of reflex activity - an automatic response to certain types of stimuli Connecting you and your baby, the umbilical cord with all its blood vessels, are starting to function. In fact, what will be your baby's intestine is forming in the umbilical cord as well. An ultrasound done this week would show your baby's fluttering heart and reflex movements.

Well, in my opinion, abortion is hardly ever the right thing to do. in fact, i believe the only time abortion IS right is when carrying on with the pregnancy would seriously harm the mother and/or baby...but then how do you decide when things get that bad? its a tricky situation certainly.

i think a lot of women sort of use abortion as contraception nowadys, simply because its too easy to get one. i think thats wrong, it shouldnt be so easy, as many women abuse their right to have an abortion just to get rid of an unwanted baby.

as for rape...well, i know it can be hard, but its not the babys fault, so i think adoptino or something is better than abortion, at least then the baby can have a chance of a good life.

Point. Blank. Period.

ABORTION IS WRONG.

Rape. Too young. Not ready. Bad memories of someone else. NO.

you can't take out your mistake, your problem, your misfortune on a baby.

"And I still don't understand how it is partial suicide. Yes, it may be a part of you, but it ISNT you.."

That is why it's is called Partial Suicide...It is part of the mother, and needs her...But at the same time, it is not her...But it can still cause her some complications at the same time.

"what is the difference between first term and 6 months old...hmmm, I just can't get past that point in any discussion, especially because I consider conception a child...in the making, but still a child....therefore what difference does it make when you kill it, it's still killing a living organism. The same people who supported abortion and passed the laws sentenced dr. death to 20 years, I find that so ironic...."

Sigh....I find it really funny that you cannot or your trying to distingush a first trimester baby with a six month old baby...

It's is quite obvious what differences they have...So it would be pointless for me to sarcastically explain it...

What I find absolutely hilarious is that you distingush something "that is beginning to form human features" with "something that already has those features".

A first trimester child does not have a cereberal cortex, and if removed from the mother, there isn't a technicality of murder. I mean from the picture your giving out, you make it seem that the doctor will yank out a third trimester child and kill it instantanously. That will never happen...

What these doctors do, is help the mother in removing something she does not want in her...That is her choice, and she has that "right" to do it.

In this discussion we have had, all I heard is the "what if's" or the "what happens" but never have I heard the facts. Your sole drive is your own twisted morals on how the world should be in your own terms...Well face facts love, the world does not revolve around you, and it never will.

What these people are doing is for their own selves and not for you. You may hate it, but it has to be done. And from what I see, you'd rather see a child suffer without its childhood in adoption agencies and Foster homes...

Quite Funny but at the same time, pathetic...

Elysium: I will not comment on your post, because it is ofcourse a "What if" comment...And frankly I am tired of commenting or bouting on something that has little relevance, and yet borders on imagination.

^Who ever said that the only option after rethinking abortion and actually conceiving the child is bringing it up when one falls pregnant at 16?

But that's really self-righteous to say. You never really understand the full situation. Maybe the mother would die giving birth. Maybe the mother is on too many medications that she can't just come off all of them at once!! It's not like it's a "ITS YOUR FAULT" thing...it HAPPENS. And in my position having a couple almost pregnancy scares, I know that I'm too young to have a baby. And just because I was foolish a couple times doesn't mean I need to spend the rest of my life paying for a few moments of stupidity!!! And personally, if I had gotten knocked up at this age, I would have had an abortion. I'm not emotionally equipped...and if you say, "Well then you're not stable enough to have sex", i'll tell you to shove it. Who are you to tell me what I'm stable enough for or ready for? And if you say abortion is wrong, would you also say that birth control is not acceptable? Because you're preventing life from happening?! My dad and step mom are catholic and they don't believe in ANY form of contraception. And when I found that out, I kept thinking how ridiculous that is. I'm definitely pro-choice. My mom is and my grandma is. Abortion can be argued forever. But it's just an opinion. If you don't want an abortion, when you get pregnant, then don't get it. But it's a woman's choice...it's her body and her life. I mean...personally, I would need my boyfriend's support, but others may not care.

Well, different circumstances definitely matter but that depends.
Like, I don't know who said earlier in another post, but life threatening cases and other things such as the mother can't support or provide proper care to the child, abortion should be allowed. I know some people say put the child up for adoption, but who can guarentee they will have a happy life?
So pro-choice or pro-life but I just know there are factors for each. But no matter what, abortion shouldn't be made illegal.

^^Lol...

Wow Bob, Shaquille O' Neal...That's what you come back with...

Once again Bob, rather than using facts you use emotive language to say that abortion is again murder....Sigh how sad...

I gave you the facts again and again, yet you twist it around claiming that abortion is murder. Please...Don't make me laugh...Oh guess you did.

Bob, it is not murder, it will never be murder, it is just expelling an un-wanted entity which clearly does not have the capabilities and features to which we attribute it as "human"...But of course, you would not see that because according to you it is murder....

If it was, it would be illegal...Don't ya think...But again it is your twisted notion of morality that is actually coming into this discussion.

Abortion is "BENEFICIAL" to society and I have already explained it

Abortion again is the woman's choice. And no one else

Abortion is not "MURDER" but it is rather partial suicide.

And this discussion has made me see that those that are actually against abortion actually use their own "perverse" sense of morals and values to be judgmental against those who actually chose for themselves to perform this operation.

But of course Bob, by my logic it would mean she can also kill her already 9 or 12 year old child as well. It's quite funny actually, because from what I can see I already explained the differences between a "foetus" and a "child"

But I guess you failed to see that because from what I can see you're clouded by your own twisted morals. Seriously Bob, let people make their own decisions.

If i chick wants to have an abortion let her. Thats what I say. It's her body she can do what she wants with it. If she wants to have the baby, thats OK. If she wants to scramble it's brains that's OK too.

I am so sick of these pro-life fanatics running around telling people how to live their life. But I'm not going to rant on about that.

What a tapestry we weave...Ha Ha Ha.

Noir - although I dont disagree with your viewpoints on some level - I dont think your arguments are that much stronger than Bob's - you continue to state that he is basing his argument or debate purely on his "twisted" sense of morals etc... but for what its worth - you are actually displaying the same sort of "morals" as you like to call them except on the other side of the fence. You are basing your argument on your knowledge of the facts. Morals dont have to be considered to be linked to religion or good vs. bad etc - its just your BELIEFS. If you believe that women should have the right to choose over abortion - then that is your belief and you should feel free to argue that point - but dont end your argument stating "Abortion is the woman's choice and no one elses" thus displaying a pro-choice attitude and then tell Bob that he has warped morals, thus undoing all your arguments for pro-CHOICE... just as you believe a woman should have the choice to have an abortion - Bob should also have a choice to be able to express his morals - just because they clash with yours doesn't make them warped or twisted.

When I say that you are acting on your knowledge of the facts - who knows who is right in this situation?? Some argue the fetus only becomes a "living thing" once it is born or after a certain period of time, others argue that it becomes a living thing immediately after conception - I suppose we will never know for sure without more research, and even then people will still argue over this matter.

Its all well and good to debate what is the correct or moral way to go, but at the end of the day - we're all only acting on what we know, and we will never know everything. :)

-edit-

-edit-

"Noir - although I dont disagree with your viewpoints on some level - I dont think your arguments are that much stronger than Bob's - you continue to state that he is basing his argument or debate purely on his "twisted" sense of morals etc... but for what its worth - you are actually displaying the same sort of "morals" as you like to call them except on the other side of the fence."

Really...I never knew...Did I state that my argument was in fact stronger...Nope, I actually stated that my words are evidenced by logic and science.

Nothing more...I was just laughing because although I backed up my reasonings with logic and science, all I get from the "other fence" is the *what ifs*...

And frankly after arguing with that, it get's tiresome, and frankly I just told it like it is as a form of penultimate way of finishing this merry-go round discussion.

I said that Bob has a twisted sense of moral because if we look at it from a *what if* comment you would see that children would suffer more if not aborted...And an example of that would be adoptions, foster cares etc... They may be a good place to put these "unwanted" kiddies but hey who am I to be a judge of that...

I originally was in a neutral position when I first posted stating that even though it may be wrong but who are we to tell them what to do...But as Bob challenged my argument, I took the pro-choice route because it seems that I would stand much more firmly if I argued at that stance.

It was fun...Lol.

Yeah I do agree that this topic seems to have gone around and around - thats why I said that even if science could prove 100% at what stage a fetus becomes a "human", there would still be arguments for and against - I was just saying everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I know I would never abort a child myself - but that is my opinion for my body and my child. Im not going to pass judgment on others for doing it for their own right reasons.

"Im not going to pass judgment on others for doing it for their own right reasons."

Everyone has their own opinion, and that is a fact...But when you pass judgement against someone which many have done, it just makes me think their lives must be soo sad for them to think like that...

Pathetic in a way...Oh well..

Bob ever heard the word sarcasm..."But of course Bob, by my logic it would mean she can also kill her already 9 or 12 year old child as well."

^^This was sarcastic...

I gave facts, and I said why abortions was beneficial to society, what are the distingushing features of a foetus and why it is different to a child and why it is not technically murder.

It's nice to see you yet again twist my words, but you're quite right in saying that this should be ended, and it is...

Your beliefs are your own, your morals although twisted are yours as well...But again children cannot be protected 24/7 unless you actively do it.

I think at the moment you are both arguing more over each other's debating skills more than anything! :)

Maybe we should start a new thread on that instead...

Enjoy your weekend everyone!

Mo

The only way i agree with aportion is if you where raped or going though the pregnancy can harm you or the unborn child.... i don't care if your underage if you are old enough to have sex you are old enough for the responables..

Okay so how about this to the above poster? Say you were at a dinner party with your friends and you drank just a little. Not too much. But just enough to impair your vision. And say you were driving home and the police pulled you over. And say they decided to give you a life sentence in jail.... (not that they would, this is a hypothetical situation here)...

Do you think you deserve to spend the rest of your life paying for a mistake you made one night?

I don't.

Now I don't encourage multiple abortions or even abortions as a form of contraception like "Hey, lets have unprotected sex and oh well if I get knocked up, i'll just get an abortion. La la la la la". HOWEVER, everyone does make mistakes...stupid ones, thoughtless ones...

But the thing I hate most about this whole thread is the feeling I get when I read it. Personally I've never gotten an abortion before, but if I had, and I read this, I'd be crying my eyes out. Calling people who get an abortion "murderers"! Wow, isn't that harsh?! I was called a murderer before by my own boyfriend's mom for taking the morning after pill! and I know that at 16 that's a horrible feeling. And if I had gotten pregnant and decided that an abortion was what was best for me and my child, how do you think I'm already feeling? Nobody walks into a doctor's office with excitement and says "YAY! MY FIRST ABORTION!"...

Most women are terrified, hurt, mortified, and just plain scared to death! Just like I was when I took the morning after pill! I was trembling and crying and you would have thought I was dying just by how scared I was. And I was thinking about this last night because I couldn't sleep...

Would you really call someone a murderer who was just trying to defend himself/herself? I wouldn't. And since no one knows when a fetus becomes a definite life, why call a woman that and hurt her? As if she doesn't walk in for her abortion without remorse and pain. And not to mention, it's not an easy decision to make. Abortions aren't exactly painless!

This is why it hurts me when pro-life people get so opinionated. Because you're willing to pass judgment on others and tell them what they're doing isn't right. Like you're God. Like you know what God personally wants for each of us. Well I may not know if God even exists, but I know that if he did, he wouldn't want me to suffer that way. And that's just my personal view on God. And no matter what you say to oppose that, that's truly how I feel.

^^Nicely and Eloquently put...

I think this discussion is over and from what I can see, I am hoping an argument would not ensue from this...

This topic is over...

Thanks, Noir. =]

I'm not trying to argue but i'd like to say that no baby should ever have the word "mistake" branded on his or her forehead. there are no mistakes, someone decided you were a worthwhile child, what makes any other kid different? does he or she have less of a right at life?

Hmm, pro-life opinions. many of them male.

yeah.

while i think
if your girlfriend/wife/SO should consult their partner before making any such decision,
in the end,
I believe the choice should stay with the woman.
and the woman alone.

no uterus, no opinion.

it's not a man's argument
you don't have to be involved
it's not like there's a population decrease.

but, like I said,
out of respect,
she should talk to you.

you can do whatever you want after that.

if you're in a commited relationship,
there's probably a really good reason that the woman wants the abortion...if not, like not wanting stretch marks, that's lame.

if you're not particularly commited,
you should've seen it coming.

I agree with mandy, i fell pregnant on my 17th b'day and i don't believe in abortions, i had a lot of complications during my pregnancy with my health and my son's but having him today at 7 months, i could never imagine my life without him. my preganacy was an accident, but i would never have an abortion, if someone doesn't want a precious child, then they should wear protection or use contraception. well that's my opinion