Let's debate!

Please keep this on track...

I've travelled a fair bit and have seen the arrows pointing to prayer rooms many times but never really took much notice. Too busy looking for my gate number first of all and secondly the smoking area. Recently I took the wrong turn and ended up at the door of the prayer room...thought I might enter and pray to give up smoking but....I wasn't allowed in....clearly it has been set up for the mulim travellers....is this fair? Why can't I use this facility..I can use all others and...everyone is welcome in the smokers lounge..thoughts please?

If you're looking for fairness or logic, I think you're on the wrong planet.

Can you elaborate....what do you mean exactly?

I mean the world isn't fair or makes sense. And the mere fact you look for it shows you don't really accept that.You could search the world and find thousands of unfair rules and laws. And while that doesn't make sense, we still have to live with them. What may seem odd to us is the norm elsewhere.

I was only searching for the smoking room to start with but...when I found this room in my own country I started to ask questions....No1....is my tax dollar payng for it? and..if so...why can't I gain access?

Because if you could that would make sense....and clearly we can't have that.
Well a way to find out is to research it some.

I'm trying to research it right here buddy....asking questions from fellow travellers etc....what I did notice was that all the shoes outside the door belonged to men so...do muslim women travellers not have access either? Actually are women allowed in mosques?

No, they are not allow is some parts of them. Funny, google could've answered most of what you ask. But it seems you would rather ask people. I applaud that.

Google....well yes...so many untruths have come from there....they state facts that are not acurate so...yes, forgive me if I ask the truth from people.

Forgive what? It is a rare trait to find these days.

It was my poor attempt at sarcasm haha!!! Honestly I've really enjoyed this little converation but...getting back on track...what do other people think about prayer rooms in airports that not all can access?

I know, but its funner to tease. I did read in a book that there is nothing preventing women from entering mosques, however most places segregate. And you are not allowed to enter during prayer.

Hellon....so they didn't allow you to come in and pray?

Page 417 - Acceptance (A.A. Big Book)
As much as I love a good debate I would prefer not to favor any belief system in an objective manner right away
I am trying to get the energy to favor one poet over another to repay the kind comments about me being the one of most abstract poets here.

Nam-myoho-renge-kyo
"When deluded, one is called an ordinary being, but when enlightened, one is called a Buddha. This is similar to a tarnished mirror that will shine like a jewel when polished. A mind now clouded by the illusions of the innate darkness of life is like a tarnished mirror, but when polished, it is sure to become like a clear mirror, reflecting the essential nature of phenomena and the true aspect of reality. Arouse deep faith, and diligently polish your mirror day and night. How should you polish it? Only by chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo"

'No, they are not allow is some parts of them.'

Solus, are you a muslim? If not, then...why would you answer such a question with such a wrong answer?

They are all allowed. Women, men, children and old people. But I guess the problem is that you cannot go in and pray unless you're wearing a certain ...let's say garment. You don't have to show any part of your body except your face, palms (or full hands I guess?) and feet. I guess that's why you weren't allowed there.

I don't pray in mosques at all. I pray at home, it's not better but I fear people there. :/

Solus, isnt wrong. I lived in Oman for over 5 years. Women, men and children are allowed in mosques regardless of their religion, given that you do not intentionally carry out an offensive act. I've been to multiple mosques, churches, temples.

Not once have I been stopped from entering any worship place in Oman. But yes, many regions across the world segregate on the basis of religion, ethnicity, caste, etc.

A good example would be my country, where the whole nation repeatedly brags about being united as one despite of the cultural diversity, the discrimination done on the grounds of religion and caste is horrifying.

If I am not mistaking all people are allowed inside a mosque, provided they take their shoes off and wear a veil (if they happen to be a woman) and not to enter when a service is going on. It is very strange things are different at an airport....

Yeh everybody is allowed in mosques
I am a Muslim and living in Egypt I am sure of what I tell you
maybe it was about the person who stopped u from going to prayer room
maybe you were smoking and smoking isn't allowed in there or anything
or maybe you were wearing a shoes
we don't wear shoes in mosques cause we need the ground to be clean beneath us while praying
but as I tell you everybody is allowed in Mosques even other religions

An LDS Temple was built here in north Houston and for the first two weeks the Mormons allowed everyone to tour the temple, being given guided tours. After this period was over, they replaced all the carpeting and only LDS members were allowed in. Anyone, by the way, can enter any Stake (analogous to a church), only the temple (analogous to a cathedral) is off limits to non-members.

In Istanbul, both Rosaura & I were allowed free, unguided access to both the Hagia Sophia & the Blue Mosque. We wore little white cloth covers over our shoes & she was given a veil.

Growing up Catholic, there were several areas only priests, nuns & altar boys were allowed. I note now that altar girls are common, though the Church still does not allow female priests.

Bringing it back to your original topic, I have no idea why you would have been excluded. Was there any conversation, or questions, or were you simply blocked wordlessly?

I didn't read all the posts, as some were replying without having a credible background to their answers.

1) you are not wearing a veil, and muslims cannot pray without their veils, now you would say, so God doesn't accept etc...no body can interfer between you and God, you can pray anywhere, since God is everywhere, but especially in the mosque, you aught to be wearing your veil.

2) to enter a prayer room, you need to be "sanitized" not in the literate wording, but i cannot find a better expression, before praying muslims wash their forehead, feet, hands in a certain way whilst they say certain words, an act of being cleansed before entering the holly place-mosque-house of God (As it's said commonly) hence

3) you won't be allowed to enter there without that.

4) Not about fairness or anything, you can pray everywhere, but each religion, culture etc got it's own traditions and beliefs, if we cannot break them, doesn't mean it's unfair or an act of discrimination.

5) I forgot an important point, if all the shoes outside were for MEN, then you were in the wrong section, although women and men are both allowed in a mosque, but they are divided, they don't pray with each other in the same room, it's usually either same mosque double floors, as one floor for men, and a 2nd one for women, or one room divided with something..if you know what I mean. Like a wall between men's and women's parts.

that's all! Even muslims who don't wear a veil, won't neither enter the mosque without wearing one , nor without washing.

Excluding the mosque or any other official place of Worship.

"clearly it has been set up for the mulim travelers....is this fair?

^ I'd like to get some views on the question. Is/are prayer room only for Islamic worship?. Even in an European country?. .or Russia?. .or USA, for example?. .Can't any other individual offer worship to his or her respective god in the same room?. .in which case clothing wouldnt matter, nor any sort of cleansing of the body?. because a prayer room is open to all individuals, from any religion for praying. So anybody can use it in anyway they want?. .

No offense. Just curious =)

^
in my reply, I was talking about Mosques, not any prayer room.

I don't know if there's anything like that either lol, prayer room ? Like kitchen ? and bed room ?

there is a church!
there is a mosque
there is a sacred place foe Buddha
bla bla...

to each his own, each with their own rules and beliefs. Nothing such as a prayer rooom,
the whole world is a huge prayer room,
why enter a place where it says "prayer room" ?? I don't get it, it's either a mosque, and hence yes with it's own rules and beliefs, or a church with it's own rules and beliefs.

Do you enter a church and do some acts that would offend it's sacredness or break a certain rule that your religion tolerates ? if it's on the contrary to what the church believes in ? ofcourse not.

Same token, if there's a prayer room, then everyone can enter it, if it stands for a certain religion, then we all aught to stick to what goes under that Title (religion)

just like when visiting a new country, you are obliged to follow their own laws.

Yup, it is a matter of respect.

I once entered a church to pray. I also all the time go to weddings and enter the church and pray, say some things with people even though I don't know what they really are or mean and I respect all the rituals there. And I'm (everyone is) always welcomed. Because a holy place is open for every person who needs and believes in God or wants his forgiveness. In mosques, things get a little bit more strict, as Nana said, you cannot go in there without your veil, with your shoes or to the wrong section. Women have their own section, men have theirs, too. This is our religion and these are the rules.

'Solus, isnt wrong. I lived in Oman for over 5 years. Women, men and children are allowed in mosques regardless of their religion, given that you do not intentionally carry out an offensive act. I've been to multiple mosques, churches, temples.'

I don't know if this was directed at me but I said the very same thing hence Solus IS wrong, lol! I don't know if we are on the same page but he said that our religion (the whole world) isn't fair which is not true. Women are as equal as men.

Funny how this debate was about this subject because a member on here and I talked last night for hours about it...religion. He was a muslim too and we had different opinions but if I remember correctly, that we both (all muslims) agree that our religion is fair enough. People are not fair but religion is.

As Nana also said, and I feel I'm repeating her, whatever, there is no such thing called 'prayer room'. You can pray wherever you want. Outside, at home, in your bedroom or...perhaps in your backyard. God is everywhere, after all.

When the poster talked about fairness, he meant that it is not of a surprise that Hellon was not allowed in, since the world is so full of injustice...(that's what I understood) he was not targeting the religion itself.

However, not that for a mosque it is stricter, most holly places got their own rules, different in their own ways.

this is somehow going astray. lol

I was going to answer this, but Nana obviously said everything :)

Women are allowed to enter mosques and pray, but they shouldn't be present with men because in Islam, mosques are the houses of God, and they have their own sanctity, just as churches and temples do. But obviously, each holy place differs in some ways.

And their sole presence requires:

1- being 'sanitized' in a chronological, specific way (as Nana said)

2- a veil and long clothes that cover all body parts except hands, feet, and face (some Islamic sects require a woman to also cover those three parts).

---- You weren't allowed there, Hellon, because men were there, and you are a woman, knowing that in such places there should be a divided praying room!

Haha yo' ladies do not know there are prayer rooms for Muslims?

there are such rooms in malls, airports, airplanes, etc...

Since only mosques require being 'sanitized' (with water) and taking shoes off, people when they are outside their homes, or far from a mosque, they can enter those rooms which are like houses provided with water and clarity.

In a 'prayer room', you don't have to be abluted?

^ stupido :P I MEANT PRAYER ROOMS IN GENERAL LILKE OPENED PLACES :P haha

ofcourse I know we have prayer rooms that stand for Muslims (example) called "mosalah" :P but there is nothing such as prayer room, like for everyone's own God. That doesn't even make sense. If it's christian, then christian beliefs should be respected, if it's Islamic then Islamic beliefs should be respected.

:P

edit:

NAno, ofcourse you should be! That's why he said, water :P

Noura,

There aren't like policemen outside who'd force you to be sanitized.

Only God requires you to do so. And your prayers without being clean from the outside (and inside of course) wouldn't be.... how do they say it. lol ?

---

Nana, ahh okay lol... yes, I don't think there are prayer rooms for Christians for example... They can just pray everywhere.

But Moslims cannot

Why am I stupid, Nana? :( I know that lol.

Edited: Nana, he said:

'Since ONLY mosques require being 'sanitized' (with water) and taking shoes off'

And I was like...what!?

Abed, you mean 'accepted'? :P

No stupido was for Aboudie my boy <3, but ofcourse I was kidding.

Noura, I wouldn't go for the word 'accepted'

NEVER.

Why?

All other religions do not require being sanitized from the outside. So their prayers wouldn't be accepted?

I'm sure not..

Too complicated for me to understand

I dunno. That's what they taught me in elementary schools. And are we back to comparing Islam with other religions? Ughhhh.

Comparisons make you think logically, sometimes...

and change your beliefs

I mean we all pray.. whatever way we pray, we are praying...

I believe God hears us all

that's it for now.. good night <3

Why can't men and women muslims pray in the same place at the same time?

Hellon2sexylegs, hello!

The several prayer rooms or 'chapels' I've seen in airports and hospitals have always been quite plain and simple, almost making a mockery of religion. From what I remember, there is an ugly small room, lit with fluorescents, freshly painted walls with a clinical colour, no pictures whatsoever, some seating, and, if you're lucky, a ridiculous altar where you can spin a disc to give you the symbol of your choice: a crucifix, a star and crescent, or the star of David.

If it was a prayer room reserved only for Muslims, I suppose it might have been in a region where there is a relatively high concentration of that religion. Many Muslims worship God quite formally, with strict prayer schedules and rituals where they kneel on the floor, facing Mecca, and pray several times a day, dictated by the sun. Around Melbourne, I have seen Muslims hunched on the ground between cars in car parks, in the stationery room in offices, in quiet alleyways and hallways- all manner of places.

Hospitals and airports are busy, important places where people are often stranded for long whiles, so it is with some consideration that prayer rooms are provided so that nobody trips over anyone in prayer, and the worshipper is afforded some privacy and peace.

An airport prayer room is strange and the last place I would want to pray in, but I'm not against it. They don't take much from the facilities and funding- they are very small (although I do think the space could also be utilised as a laundrette- my clothes always need a wash when I'm travelling, and that's the perfect time to do it). It's a matter of convenience and courtesy. I equate it to a public baby change room. Sure, you can change your baby's nappy on the carpet between people's legs, but it's always nice to know that someone has thought of your needs as part of a large proportion of the population.

Noura (The poetess)

No I was not targeting you. Solus is right about logical limitations of humans. He did not target you or Islam on a personal level.

You are right, religion does not discriminate, humans do. So in all fairness, he is right. There isnt a pattern that one can find when it comes to justifying equality.

It is appropriate that there is a prayer room. In Islam you have to offer Salat Namaz atleast 5 times a day, and at a fixed time. Well. .not exactly fixed but approximate timings. Other religions do not have such a ritual. Thus in case people are out of their homes, a prayer room would be appropriate since kneeling down in the middle of the mall might attract unwanted attention, the floor would not be clean, People might accidentally bump into you, etc.

It is said that god himself is present before you when you are on your knees praying to the almighty, that is why the path before a praying person must be clear. I find this thought beautiful.

And Islam has attracted criticism not for its rituals but followers. A few rotten apples in the basket. Tawakel Karman, the 2011 Nobel peace prize recipient is fighting a battle for press freedom and Women liberation in Yemen. Such a rebel would exist only if things were unfair, which they are. Islam is a fair religion. Humans tend to impose their own agendas. I am sure that you are aware of the fact that apostasy in Islam in an offense punishable by death?. .Yes, you will receive a death penalty if you leave your religion or convert to any other religion. Even though the Qur'an does not state any such law.

I've always been treated nicely when I visited other gulf countries.

MsSunShine.

Yes, I knew you were talking about mosques, thus I excluded them in my statement. And yes again, to obeying rules upon intending to visit a worshiping place. One must be obliged to follows the mandatory implementations.

Anyways, thank you for such nice answers. It seems I am including more than required. I tend to do that.

And once again, no offense. ^^,