Very important

Hey Mr do you agree with this statment. "If you were born in Israel you would probably be a Jew ie where you were born and into which family normally determines your views on religion and politics etc"

Have you ever questioned your beliefs ?

Why do you think it is wrong for those outside your religion to question the fundamentals of your religion?

Hey David,

...but Ms. Sunshine came in barging to his rescue, abhorrent to the idea, fearing that he may lose his religion.

^
he can go get married to his own sister, I do not care if he changed his religion or not, I do not care what you believe in or what anyone else believes in. Get over that, I replied to you enough of times, seriously, go watch yourself a little bit David, even those who come from the "western" world as you call it, were clear in their pms of how ignorant you were while I was trying to open up for you some good explanation.

Listen, do not mention my name without letting me know, "rude" of you, as I'd have to think whether to talk for myself or not.

Can't you see it ? you are the one who have problems with Muslims, and those who believe. I do not have a problem wth you non believin or anyone else converting or not. You keep postng over and over again, "Quraa" "holly text" "wars" killin in the name of God" you" she" he" they" fanatics" wrongs" rights" why don't you just get over it ? and move on, and live your life.

If you have a way to save the world, just go for it, without trying to pretened being open minded over these forums, you are the one over here who have a problem with us, we do not, we never talked about non-believing, stop bringing things up, others will stop trying to explain. I have not seen one member talking about people not believing, but you have problem with people defending what they believe in when YOU bring it up the way you see it and twist it all around.

If you don't care about people ruining the reputation of your beliefs, that's your own life, if a Christian doesn't care if the bible was being insulted, that's their own, (example) but that won't make it a rule, it seems like those who truly believe in their Islam, will not accept it being insulted, and that shows real faith infact to be able to stand up for your beliefs.

Problem is, whenever someone replies you, you say they are attacking you, please sit for a minute and see how you are the one pushing the buttons, you my sir David are the person who is not being able of getting over Islam and its teachings, not the other way around.

save the world, and change it, I don't care either :). Just don't bring me up again, when I am not even part of your anti religious discussion! you can worship the sun, the cow, the wall, the moon, the tree I do not have any problem, would not matter to me, I am only concerned about myself; to each his own.

Hope this explains, but I really doubt.

I wonder where did you extract this question from. Who said it is wrong for those outside my religion to question the fundamentals of my religion. You accuse me in something which I didn't say. I'm open to answer any question Nicko and you can start that tomorrow since it's too late. Nice to know new people like you. I like your profile when you say "Religion a last grasp atimmortality"

Khalid, no body has to say it's wrong, it is enough for you to reply, or to explain your self, or say one positive thing about your beliefs to be considered as a close minded person who doesn't accept others, and what they have to say ;)

Take me as an example, everytime I replied with explanation, I was said to be mocking attacking or disrespecting lol.

I'm not accussing you of anything.... i'm asking questions thats all.

The reason i asked one of those questions is this. It has been said on this site that if you are not Muslim you should not discuss it as only Muslims understand it. We also see this in the wider community ie the riots and the killings after somebody posted a video on You tube

Nicko, who said if you are not a Muslim you should not discuss, it has been said that as a NON muslim you should be willing to listen with an open heart to what a " Muslim" says, because it's a part of their life, how would you know their style of living and thinking more than them, themselves!

There are riots everywhere, crimes everywhere, rapes, killings, selling babies, trading women, corruption, wars, and many endless inhuman actions that are happening every single day, this is not about Muslims, this is about the corruption in the societies of this world.

We also see peace in other Muslim regions, just like we see injustice in "NON muslim regions/countries" for different reasons other than God and religion. O.o Why don't people also try and discuss that!

Yes, why do I feel like the other Muslim members are shy of saying it ? that we cannot change the world O.o I have not seen one perfect human being on this earth, just because Islam is a religion it does not mean that everyone following it is going to be as good as it asks the follower to be. We are born with feelings and wisdom, we cannot just be "mind" we have our emotions,

anger, grudge, hate...love...kindness..carin.. BLA..

no body said that anything or that anyone is perfect, but just like you want your belief of non-believing to be respected, you should respect what others believe in, even if it was a religion that you consider as dangerous.

you can't just expect people to be able to explain for you what others are doing, we all speak for ourselves from personal experiences and from our life styles.

We talk about Islam the way we were taught to see it and live it. It does not mean that we are liars either, it means this is how it is.

What's happening around the world is not just about Muslims or fanatics, it's about the world its self, and how far humans went with their low ethics, if therre are any ethics left up there.

You guys should leave this, stop making pressure and trying to pretend that you want to know, or that you want to ask just to get things clear, we all know no one is going to change what they believe in, be it positive or negative!

I have to go so will make this brief

Sunshine you are a lovely person and I have a lot of respect for you and yes you are Muslim, I work with Muslim people. So yes there are good, great Muslims in this world.

I'm an Atheist and over the many years ive been here have asked the same questions of Christians

I have seen the comment about the Muslim religion should only be discussed by Muslims on here, but will have to dig it out

On this site in the last 12 months there has been a lot of emphasis on Islam, maybe we have more Muslim members. Nothing wrong with that. But from an outsiders perspective or maybe it's just me but it's almost like I have to tiptoe around certain issues, well with all due respect I'm not about to do that.

But what happened around the world after some guy posted a You Tube video highlights the dangers of Islam. It was like a warning to the world "If you question us, mock us, fail to understand us, we will bring retribution to you" understanding that the violence was sanctioned my many high ranking Muslim leaders around the world and even members on this site. And yes you and many many others are not like that, but the scale of the reaction and the riots tells us that there are many millions that are...

and that is a concern to many

Another lengthy outburst, Ms. Sunshine, to a benign jocular comment in response to Rabea. Nowhere in this thread or even the other thread had I criticized any religion. I asked questions, with particular interest in learning what is the association of Quran's teachings with 2000 years of aggression, particularly the last 50-60 years, hoping to learn the association. I learnt absolutely nothing from you on that. Yes, I would not deny that much of your holy book probably teaches the same as the Bible, the Torah or any other holy book. However, your style of answering by a salvo of personal attacks and implied condescending remarks in all of your answers to prove how much of an ignoramus I am for asking questions is beyond me. Your comments speaks for themselves, so I have little to say. If I had asked the same questions to a Christian or Jew or Hindu about teachings in the Old Testament or Torah or Bhagwad Geeta, would I have received the same treatment for asking questions like these? This is exactly why I wonder why people who read/recite from your holy book daily, pray 5 x day to Allah, or sleep with it under their pillow, so easily pick up their fighting sword over little things.

I see this thread converting again to what I feared, confrontational and derogatory to people participating, unfortunately. Khalid started it respectfully, he tried to keep it calm, and I added some humor to it, but now we are back to the same thing, pointless accusations and finger pointing. So continue on, kicking the non-believers with your style of debating. This will never bring Peace and understanding, only bitterness.

I am proud. to be a non believer. the funny thing is my children attend a catholic school. they are being brainwashed weekly. i will show them my egg on the window sill. this is my god. i believe in fate and luck, we control both with paths we choose. when we die we are chucked into a hole and left to rot.

Nicko, I do understand what you're trying to say, that's to be honest, it's just that when being asked before, I did reply, all I got in return was mockery and more questions that everyone who've seen agreed that they were only comin out of hate, and were not even reasonable, because the replies I have made about previous questions, were neither read, nor commented on, not even taken into account! I am not supposed to talk for those around the world who did whatever they did, because of the utube, because there are other people around the world as wel who did peaceful moves in return to intruduce the real message of Islam. We talk about the enviroment we come from, and about Islam in my /our area.

And so, whatever I say about Islam or said, was truthfully how we live it, just because it doesn't seem as the ones you see on TV, that doesn't deny that, it is how we believe and how we live.

All I am saying, we are not expected to be the ones holding the key answers for why some go and kill in the name of God, we cannot prove for you how these people do not follow the real message of Islam, all I am saying, is that ALL I can do is introduce for you Islam the way we were taught about it, and that's what I did. As for how others live it, that's something I or any other member cannot solve. Impossible to solve, we don't live with them, we do not know them, nor can comprehend what's in their head.

thank you though...you are free to question these actions, because believe or not (probably) the ones who teach the book and the morals of Islam, who live in my area were all objecting on how people acted aggresively toward the movie, whether they were people from some parts of Leb. or any other Arab or non Arab world. They were clear that to object, you have to do it in a peacefull way, in a way to show how the Prophet was, not by doing actions that contradicts with the prophets teachings.

"To defend the Prophet, at least act peacefully like he would" that's one of the most common slangs that was lectured over here.

thanks Nicko, I appreciate what you're askin, I also ask myself the same questions, trust me. But I talk for my people the ones who follow this reliigion the way I do. This is the Islam I know, but please some people over here should stop expecting us to know why others kill in the name of God. we do not hold answers, Islam forbids killing an innocent soul, whatever that comes against that is not Islamic, that's all I can say. As to why and how, ...it is impossible for me to know! or anyone else who is not involved with the people who do these actions O.o

if you know what I mean :)...anyway..

---

And David, I could not finish reading this...I skipped to the last part that was pretty funny, kickin non-believers ? lol I wish Nicko would tell me where did I kick non believers O.o since he might know enlish better than I do...or perhaps you are reading somethin else...
possible!

from the begining of these topics with you I was pretty clear that what you believe in does NOT concern me, everyone is free to believe in what they believe in, I will not question you, all that was said to you, was to try and be a little bit respectful and less mean, and less ignorant when you are given replies. IF that's hard, then that's your problem, not mine.

I also told you you are free to hate Islam or any other religion and to express it, but do it with good manners !

please stop convincing yourself of your innocence, I will not say anything about you, I hope one day you will be capable of seeing, what kind of people you are making out of yourself look like in these forums. Save it, and really try move on.

The funny thing that always dizzy me is that 'Who started WWI, WWII, and... if not soon WWIII.' ?

Moslims?

NO. A big NO NO. like NO NO NO, x 10000.

There were Atheists who started that. and all types of other religions.

Nicko, I am the one who should be afraid. Not YOU.

Really sad.
We live in a world of hypocrites.

-

It's SIMPLE MATH to compare between the two lives taken by both parties. What do you conclude?

Please.

If your house is made of glass, don't throw others with stones.

Aboudi, are you seriously still trying. This will not work this way, how we live and act toward difference and non believers, is somethin they do not know and cannot know, at least will not accept or believe. How we accept others and get them involved in our families is something they cannot believe either, all that is taken into account is utubes and news. don't take this topic into something that some will refuse to admit, or to see. This is just about Muslims, what's happening around the world, no matter how cruel, is not up for questioning as long as the word Islam is not involved.
Can't you get it yet. :P just leave it, no body can change the world. No body

I quit trying a long time ago :P

Maybe a reminder here and there would still come handy lol.

When you wake up in the morning, remember your history well, people.

^^^^^ A lonely soul.

My post isnt entirely related to the original thread.

This will never bring Peace and understanding, only bitterness.

^ I have always found Peace = Optimism. Since the dawn of time, peace has never prevailed between any species. And yet still, we are defiant. While I have not read every religious book. From most of those which I have read, the purpose of life is not peace or war. Nor good or bad. But, it is self realization. The elimination of the duality. In the physical world we perceive matter with duality in its nature. Black and white, tall and short, male and female. The soul is said to have no gender, since it is energy. Every desire ones hold dear, is not of the physical body. Rather the soul desires. Peace cannot be found in the physical world, but within one's self.

^ This is my derivation from the books I have read.

And the religious killing or the guilty verdict for a sinner, just on the basis of religion. Who are we to decide who is a sinner and who is untainted? ..If there is a god, than we are not the judges, he/she/it is. We do not have the right to declare a verdict against any human being. Thus, we do not have the rights to punish someone as far as religion is concerned. Books do not mention god commanding his followers to slay any other follower turned bad, since only the god can judge one as good or bad. Even in case of apostasy, various translations speak of the god deeming the follower a sinner, should he/she forsake his religion, convert and speak ill against the religion. OR oscillate between religions thus disrespecting them. Even in such a case, the followers are not to punish the follower. That authority is held by only the almighty.

So every human that has ever harmed another human in the name of religion, has done wrong. Deprived another of his/her human years of joy and sorrow.

And if god does not exist, then how will we justify the religious honor killings?..Who is the devil in such a scenario?. .the horror shall depict humans as savages. How many religious books speak of the light spectrum? .It was not theorized until the 17th century. Most religious books were written before it, but the white light being composed of seven different colors should have been mentioned in the books, a relatively easy task for a god to describe to his followers. A rainbow, or a prism should have done the job.

And just in case if god exists. True faith does not require validation. A follower must be content on the inside, regardless of others views about his religion/beliefs. Violence exists because people voluntarily opt for it, in the name of religion and politics. Humans playing god, how unsatisfactory.

Who are we to decide who is a sinner and who is untainted?

^^^

Hey George..don't you think that..in leaving the 10 commandments..the christian god was saying....hey abide by these rules or else? Some of them seem really ridiculous now...actually they all do if I'm being honest but..maybe, thankfully most of the minions in this religion realised that and backed off...whereas other religions could possibly still be following certain words/rules/readings that are...well... outdated and setting punishments up that are as neanderthal as their scriptures?

Lebanese phoenix, gotta pick you up on this.

"The funny thing that always dizzy me is that 'Who started WWI, WWII, and... if not soon WWIII.' ?

Moslims?

NO. A big NO NO. like NO NO NO, x 10000.

There were Atheists who started that. and all types of other religions"

Actually, if you cared to know anything about those two world wars you'd realize they had nothing to do with religion, or a lack of it. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen people like yourself mistakenly cite hitler and stalin as being perfect examples of athiest leaders. That is such a retarded distortion of what went on and what motivated them that I am utterly amazed each time someone is stupid enough to suggest it.

Hitler didn't go to war because he was an athiest (even though he regularly invoked God in his speeches). Hitler went to war because he felt that germany was disgraced in the great war because of the jews. He had promised the German people he would deliver them eastern Europe in his 1924 book "Mein Kampf" He also felt that since all germans were the greatest race they deserved all the land they wanted. There was dozens of other reasons, most of them political/social.

If you are going to limp in like that with a reference to Germany and Hitler, make sure you have it right.

^^ Hellon

Can the gods virtues, his aspects be diminished by a human not accepting him?. .is god that sentimental? .. A god that kills a human being for rejecting religion is but a dictator. I wish to be no part of such an existence.

That sounds offensive, but I had to say it. if the moderators find it to be inappropriate, then edit/delete it, though I am not targeting anyone. And shall any member find this part to be inappropriate, please do come forward and make me aware of it. I shall delete it, once it is verified with a moderator. I am posting as an observer, unbiased and non specific to any religion.

Gods glory and his love isnt that narrow. The omnipotent being, is said to be most merciful. His love know no bounds. Is infinite. And similarly his fury is devastating. if he/she/it exists in the first place.

Religious books are not commands. They are guidelines. History of most religions speaks of human beings that were bad, received enlightenment from the god himself and were allowed to feast with the gods. And many a good fellow were denied asylum in the heaven for multiple reasons. God will not judge someone for only their loyalty, rather their deeds as well. I'd rather an individual spend his energy feeding and clothing the poor, than waste his energy scanning betrayers. Peace cannot be won, good does not exist simply. It must be worked for and maintained, should one choose to believe in it and yearn for it.

I doubt anyone would find your comment offensive George....least of all me. I don't really believe in god but...being brought up in the catholic faith I did have a lot of questions when I became a teenager...the 10 commandments....well it was probably the second question I asked...you know...Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife but....it was alright for the priest to molest....(I'm not talking about myself here BTW)

and...Thou shall not commit adultery....haha!!!!

LP let me get this straight are you calling me a hypocrite because you think an Atheist started WW11 three and what ever??? If so, are you serious, hopefully you'll take note of Kevin's post... But really what has that to do with this??? And are you suggesting Moslims never started any wars, what about the ones your Prophet started..

Manfred

You lost my point, smart Kevin.

What I intended to say is that Muslims did not spill blood like others did (referring to Nicko's fear of them). I don't care about Atheists or what they worship... mice, skunks, eggs, golden apples.... or who weren't true to this sect like Hitler, Stalin, whatever..... I made my point, and it's my zero intention to fight with an Atheist.

~

And then came Nicko to lose more points, lol...

whatever.

this was my only idea.

"Remember your bloody history."

Chaw

^ Hellon

I hail from a religious family. I do believe in a god, but not the god that humans project to create fear and an ordained religious community. I do not believe in the god that grants wishes of cars or money of love or any other desire. But I am optimistic about the existence of a self aware energy under whose dominion all reality is governed. The cosmos is too ordained and a mystery.

I've seen women get beat up, abused. I bare no sympathy towards humans anymore that live their day to day lives. All we do is of our choosing and none other shall bare their consequences.

Whoever gives a hungry beggar food, is a god for him.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife but....it was alright for the priest to molest....

^ The harsh reality.

Yes....reality George but...It was hidden back then...underneath the robe so to speak....

I've seen women get beat up, abused.

^^^^

also reality but...if you seen it...did you do anything about it?

Lose points...Mate it's you who needs the history lesson

And what about the blood that's being spilt on the streets at the moment is that not Muslims killing Muslims...

And you can cut out the little snide remarks, the only one that is belittled is you...

^^

Those of whom I knew, I have intervened. Police does not help. They refrain from interfering as long as they get paid. The rescue is temporary in most cases. The women is most likely to get beaten up another day.

Public abusing is hard to interfere with. What is more shocking, is that people on the road will just watch. Women in general are placed below men in every society. Men are given more privileges and the authority to use their fist against a women. Women are imprisoned within four walls of their home. I feel so helpless.

This is very very hard for me to comprehend George....having the freedom that I do have here as a woman....you find it shocking and yet...nothing is done? I don't mean by you in particular because....you probably fear yourself what would happen if you intervene but...wow.....feel even luckier today now!

What's with the attacks, Nicko ?:)

I know that Atheists have big hearts... big minds. lol

Maybe if you pray, you'd cool off?

Can't you see that this kind discussions only separate us. We want the same things. In the end we are all the same. Muslims, Wiccans, Catholics, etc. We are human beings. Why can't we respect each other?We don't have to like people. We have to respect and accept them with their idiosyncrasies.

Hey guys it's more than 100 posts here so please start a new thread. I can feel the speech is deviated sometimes from the main subject, including belittling, disgusting shooting others' feet etc. We want to get benefits of this discussion or just finish it.

Karla I agree, but because we are Christians Muslims Catholics Jews wiccans is why we have wars..

Sad but true