Judges Please #II

Again, just answer the question.

You said something like 'Ben will have three times the wins Andrea has???" again, what was your point? Just answer that. You obviously knew the answer, you just hated what it meant.

^^
Well I wanted clarification just in case I had it wrong but, I also wanted to draw members attention to the fact that my whole thread was based on what I thought was, perhaps members with 'blinkers' on and, the stats were there to prove the point IMO.

The problem is, Hellon, you overplayed your hand on that thread and there were just one too many 'Bens' attached to your posts for you to deny how personal it had become for you.
I say openly now. I believe you hate that me and a few others win so much on this site and you simply cannot let it go. Your posts wreak of grudges and jealousy and you cannot accept that perhaps people actually win because others like their poems. You are obviously a very sad and bitter woman and for that, I am genuinely sorry.

Also, Abby said a few weeks back that only the best poems should win - people shouldn't be handed 'free wins'. Most people agreed. So I ask you now (and I am open) please post one of my winning poems that you thought was undeserving. Again, it comes down to what judges are looking for. Some look for the 'best' poems and others do like to be 'fair'. But you cannot dictate that. However, if you believe any of my poems were unworthy, post away and rip them to shreds

*You didn't want 'clarification'. Who are you kidding? You knew damn well you had it right but as above, you hated what it meant. And why blinkered? Why not just a winning poem?

If you are going to edit your post please use the edit button so that members can keep track of your thoughts..the sad bitter woman thought well...how many times have you used that one? Should I complain about name calling? Should I complain about bullying? You've called me names like that more than once that I remember but...WTF it's the internet, I'm an adult...I have a thick skin so, I wouldn't bother the mods.

As for posting your poems and ripping them apart..wouldn't that make this even more about you???

No, I am saying that if you have a problem with a winning poem of mine (and remember, YOU were the one using MY name as an example) then post away and say what the issue is. It is about me because you used me as a case in point. YOU did that, not me.

As for attention, Hellon, let's be honest. Every few months you post something controversial to be the very centre of the pnq universe. No one on this site craves attention more than you.

You are bitter. You are jealous. You have always had an issue with me - right back to when I was in Phoenix Rising when we had the same argument then. And yes, that does make you a cyber bully as trite and inconsequential as that sounds. All those Bens and all those statistics - who the hell do you think you're kidding? I know your go-to is 'ben plays the victim', but your 'subtle posts' and twistings of scenarios are clear for every one to see. You cannot stand me or my win ratio.

It wasn't an example it was a fact. The stats were there for all to see...I didn't 'use' your name it was already there.

As for your other comment....pish-posh.

But WHAT IS YOUR POINT? How is my winning so many unfair? I either deserve to or I do not - simple as that, And THATS why I said if there is an issue with a poem/s then post and say what it is. Not to 'make it about me'.

So...do you think you deserve it?

Very clever, Hellon. Even I am not that stupid...

I have to say, poor play indeed. I expect a little more from an expert like you on a thread like this, lol

I was being serious...

And that is what's funny.

I'm laughing on the inside...believe me...

But surely, that would have been an ideal time for me to shine and 'make it about me'?

what I think of my winning poems is not really for me to say in public. Honestly? I will only say that some are good and some are not so good. But as far as the weekly goes, I have no say. Some, I believe I deserve, others, I'm not sure. But I don't make the decisions. Is that an answer to your question without me getting too self-centred?

what I think of my winning poems is not really for me to say in public. Honestly? I will only say that some are good and some are not so good. But as far as the weekly goes, I have no say. Some, I believe I deserve, others, I'm not sure. But I don't make the decisions. Is that an answer to your question without me getting too self-centred

^^^

Contradicting yourself in your very first sentence mate!!!

i was aware of that, Hellon, but I did want to try and answer your (honest) question somehow. I don't believe it's quite for me to say - at least in depth - but I am aware I contradicted myself to some degree to accommodate your question - I'm sorry you couldn't understand that.

You know what Ben...just pore yourself another glass wine and try to chill man...ok...

Hellon, that would be lovely. A spiffing suggestion.

Yeah watch some tennis....I have to stay up half the night to watch it here..cheers :)

I love tennis! I quite literally watch Wimbledon from 13.00 to the time I go to work at 20.30! That Coco Gauff is quite something, isn't she? I knew we had something in common...

Seriously...you want to be my besty now????? :) :)

Look out for Ash Barty is all I'll say...

Oh no, not besty. That would require me having any other friends to compare you with. I have never been a great social animal, as you might imagine...

Ash Barty's currently in trouble. Not sure who will win the women's. It's open, that's for sure.

It won't be Barty...

No...it won't be her...bummer :(

This really has become quite farcical.. The thread "Judges Please" forum whether intentionally or inadvertently was only ever going to be a provocative platform designed to cause upset. There are better less provocative ways to broach subjects than by telling judges to pick poems rather than poets but then there is clearly a sense of mean spiritedness and provocativeness throughout the thread.

However what did come out of the thread was the agreement that poems are art and as such mean different things to different people so in fact each poem is judged on its merit by the judge at the time. People it seems are quick to complain about the efforts that others put into the community but lack in their own efforts to give back something to the site.

It's easy to publish poems and to complain but being part of the community is putting in time and effort to do things like commenting and supporting your fellow poets and volunteering to be a weekly judge. If everyone read and commented on at least ten poems a week and volunteered to be a weekly judge for one term a year - what a positive difference that would make to the site. It would also ensure that we would have a full complement of judges and perhaps the diversity of winners that some of the complainers crave.

Healthy debate is good but it is not good when it becomes bullying. In the past bullying happened often without consequence but we are living in a much enlightened age and bullying is no longer tolerated especially online..

To be absolutely fair there are still some people who don't recognise when they are bullying and there are others who do but try and disguise it thinking they can get away with it but not any more...

There is a fine line between healthy debate and bullying and this and the previous post have gone way beyond what is considered bullying but if you have any doubt about which of it that you are doing then....

- Provoking someone to get angry or to respond to your post or to upset is bullying!
- If what you are saying is continually targeting another or bringing up their name when it is clearly not necessary then its bullying!
- If it is causing someone distress or making them or others feel uncomfortable or upset then its bullying!
- Continually ridiculing someone in front of their peers when they have asked you to stop is bullying!
- Where someone asks you to stop your behavior because it is upsetting and you continue - is bullying!
- Publishing private and confidential information or images - is bullying!
- Threatening to do them, their family or possessions harm is bullying!

This feels like yet another thread designed to to promote unrest and upset and a platform for bullying- So before anyone else posts here just make sure that you are not posting just to get a reaction or rise from someone else, because deliberate needless provocation is not healthy for the site nor for its members.

For future reference - Bullys crave attention so if you see bullying on the site - please do not engage no matter what the provatation because that is fuelling their need for attention....

I can't speak for anyone else but, I come to this site to get away from this kind of stuff. Drama. Judgement. Jealousy. Accusations. This is supposed to be a place of comfort. A place we all feel welcome to express ourselves and share things with others. So why is it that it keeps coming back to this?
Don't get me wrong, I get upset and jealous when I don't win or when I feel like my poems have been overlooked. But good poetry is what wins. Every time. And just cuz one judge feels different than others, doesn't mean the poem isn't worthy of a win.
This crap going on right now is just sad. And it makes me want to leave the site so I don't have to see it in yet another area of my life. Hope you all figure out how to work this out...

'So before anyone else posts here just make sure that you are not posting just to get a reaction or rise from someone else, because deliberate needless provocation is not healthy for the site nor for its members.'

I am inclined to agree with the above. Part of the initial reason Hellon wanted other poets to win, I believe was to influence, and motivate them to stay, no? Whether or not their poetry is any good is another question, of course. I firmly believe, still, as others have said multiple times, that the poem should win. If that's Ben, myself, a new member, whoever, it doesn't really matter if the poem is considered good by those who consistently volunteer their own free time to judge and pass comment every week!

Another reason poets stay, such as myself, is the openness here, and the community. If existing members, like Aegis are thinking of leaving because of the negativity, and arguments going on, how do you think a new poet might feel coming onto these boards for the first time? This has not particularly been the most civilised and adult of discussions, and it needn't have dragged on so long? I've seen it quiet for days, and members try to leave the discussion, only for it to start again. Surely a lot of it could have been confined to private message, even if the initial point seemed a relatively valid one to begin with.

Daniel, lovely post.

I wonder if the number of volunteers would grow if judges were esteemed. We cannot possibly expect the standard to rise (or change) when the number of volunteers dwindles each term. At the rate we’re going, we won’t have judges soon and the site will pick at random. That’s the real issue at hand if you’d all step out from the shadow of denial. There will be no judges to be hyper critical of and this thread and ones like it will be moot.

I really dont understand why there are no volunteers, when it seems that everyone on this thread has time for posting. Is it because of these threads? Or is everyone busy with life? Are judges afraid to be judged? Everyone has there own thing, and no one likes to be judged, but that is the only way to keep the weekly contest alive. And I believe if the weekly contest dies, P&Q may follow it.

Let the enthusiasm of this thread, run the weekly contest.

Dear Rania. You are honest with me always and I love you for that. I, as you rightly mentioned said: " certain administrator" and you Interpreted to: "if you are talking about so-called moderators" There is an S at the end of your Moderator, my administrator had no S in the end.
Please read my lips, you are a God sent, Michael Nelly always regarded you like sunshine and I believe him. Meena is my 12-year friend on this site. And AM I knew her for years, but I got to know her in the last four months. she is awesome. All of you are responsible and lovely people.

Lol, Bob thank you for your kindness. The internet bears a lot of miscommunication. It doesn't matter if it was in singular or plural. I was just pointing out that all this has nothing to do with the administration.

All I was trying to say, there were a lot of dramatic posts and in my opinion, I say it again it is my opinion, each person already involved in this thread and the previous one already had the chance to save the hassle. If a person doesn't want drama they can simply act accordingly. Especially that the main issue was raised between adults who can explain and defend themselves without the intervention of others. I just think when others start defending others it becomes like adding fuel to the fire. And it seems like my words were interpreted as so. In all cases, I apologize if I didn't sugar coat my words better and for any misused term that could have offended any of you guys. It's not a big deal, people shouldn't be waiting for one another on a slip to defuse their anger.

And as you mentioned it. I miss Michael so much.

Yeah you aew right..if they all can post and have do much to say then show it all in the contest, be a Judge

Milly....your post was very long and took a while to get to the point which, if I'm reading it correctly, you think I'm a cyber bully, is this correct?

You apologize to everyone too much. You have been the most courteous of all.

By the way what happened to Michail Nelly. He was solid like rocks. I miss him too.

Thank you <3

Last time we spoke on* Facebook. But I haven't used that platform for a while*. I will try get in touch with him and bring him back here.

Anyway, I genuinely hope everyone has a good week.
For now, Wimbledon is on so I cannot spare another moment for this thread :)

If Megan Rapinoe played Tennis she'd be there. ;8-)

We don't talk about her round these parts, Larry...

I love how everyone complains about the weekly contest but only a few and i mean a very few amount of people even know how to comment anymore. This site has become a joke to people who actually come here to read poetry and comment and actually want criticism on their poetry to help them grow. I am honestly ashamed to be part of a site that only cares about some stupid f'n contest now that in the end doesn't mean Sht. You are isolating the people that actually care about this POETRY site. And i for one am done posting new poems on here.

Edited::
Guys, Jamie is the only one remaining angry after everyone cooled down.
One never can get everything, s/he wants from a collective like this. we have to find general consensuses.
Jamie writes a lot of long comments and gets very little in return. ~ maybe he is commenting the wrong crowd I don't know.~
( rule #1 don't expect a different result taking the same action on and on). But I agree it is frustrating if commenting turns to a one-way road.

I wrote over fifty comments, all more than one paragraph or so, in the last few months and did not and won't even get credit for them because I would never reveal or post them under the poems, Why? because I know those who they were written for already read them in the weeklies. Now revealing those comments is like telling them I wrote those comments because of me not because of you. For the 'you' part is already fulfilled by them reading the comments. Then 'me' part is when I insist on revealing the 'me' part and letting the 'you' know... But that is not necessarily a bad thing or a crime, don't get me wrong. Actually, it is very normal. It is good for networking, connectin, and relating... and so on. But for me from this part on, it is not about the 'you' part anymore. That part is fulfilled already. In the other hand, it is okay to be showy to a certain extent, but too much of that, I don't guess is healthy. Also keep it in mind that in the spirit of authenticity, a comment should merely be about the poem and the writer.

Jamie also writes very talented poetry, but our survival in this site must learn to be independent of how wrong the system is, was and could be., or at least try. We are all here to write poetry, ( unless those friends that writing for them is a hobby and are here mostly for interfacing. ) so let that be our first priority to grow TOGETHER as poets.
Though we must adapt to the system for getting the most out of our times here and turn away from its flaws. t We must FIRSTLY protect ourselves, then if we could, try to better the system on our ways. For, because we are humans.

I add: Talented poets are very sensitive too; they are emotional and raw Jamie and Larry's 'proverbial duck' as he calls it (not an ugly duckling like me for sure) are two examples. So to the poets like these that are so many around here::
We must play within the very limits of your sensitivities ( which gives us the poetical freedom) and our desire for perfection. Because they are innate and necessary components to one another, yet also they are the biggest rivals. ( paradox )

In the end: Real poet's destiny (that because of his/her talent is mostly given not chosen or earned) is one of the most difficult challenges ones of all and has the highest rate of suicide in all the arts. ~~There is nothing in all the arts, as emotional as poetry. ~~

Though the secret, the very secret is, (I hope you trust me on this) that if the universe, nature, revolution, God,.. whatever, has given you THE gift. The gift that would make your life living hell potentially, be sure the same force also provides you with the mean to survive and protect yourself against it. The extra gallon is hidden somewhere beneath your wings, in your feathers..., but be sure one day you find it if you know how to search.