Well lets talk writing

I've been thinking lately, how I could improve my writing. For some reason whenever I write something I always feel like I could do better. Someone told me long ago the best way is to read more, but to me personally reading isn't always the best option. That's why I'm open for constructive criticism. I'm curious what's your opinion on constructive criticism? Are you with or against it?

Also I know at some point you may feel like you're satisfied with what you write. So here I am asking when do you know that? Are you satisfied with what you write?

I don't know what more to ask lol. Since this is a poetry website I thought maybe we can do more writing discussions, If you have anything in mind you could share it here.

For me, when I was younger ( age 13 to 26) I always felt like my poetry was more of journal entries and I never wanted to share them with anyone... When I started to share my poetry publicly, I was always satisfied and happy with what I wrote.. Me personally I never wanted to improve , my confidence with writing has been stronger since sharing my poetry. I have evolved over the years. Its about evolving, changing, trying new things, but never change your style. I have had many people over the years say, oh you should be less silly and more frilly.. ha ha. My theory is .. be me.. be me in my writing and dont sway from that.

As an avid reader of your poetry I can say that you have evolved quite beautifully <3

Critiquing for me is good and wonderful and I welcome it- love it however I wont change the style or flow of my poem
but I am all about being told if I have a spelling error. My eyes are getting bad so I get so excited when someone alerts me
to that.

Hmm, in my opinion the best way to improve your writing is to write. But also, don’t be afraid to try something new, don’t be afraid to let your imagination guide you from time to time and don’t be afraid to have some fun while you are writing (if possible).

Reading helps to acquire new vocabulary and perhaps to get some ideas but I believe the actual process of writing, I mean the whole process of writing down will somehow help you to better engage your thoughts/feelings/creativity/imagination into paper or screen or whatever lol. Writing comments, helps. Writing poems, helps. Writing essays, help. Then reading what you are writing, helps. Reading what others write, helps, but it’s even better if you write down your thoughts on what you read. At least that’s my opinion.

I’m not fully satisfied on what I write. I have so many projects in mind but no energy to work on them. :( most of the poems I have written haunt me. I go back to read them from time to time and I get something from them. Sometimes I may end up editing a few or creating a new one. I get some sense of satisfaction in a few poems but not quiet there.

Ah, I’m just writing lol

I hope I made some sense.

Edit:
For unknown reasons, I was just reminded of this thread. It was a debate I had against Jenni a longggg time ago. Perhaps, you are looking for something like this to be repeated?

https://www.poems-and-quotes.com/threads/141868

*

I knew you started writing poetry from a young age, but I didnt know that you didnt share it before 26. Thats really interesting. I love how you put it as evolving!!! I never thought of it that way, because I would never want to change my style, but I want to convey my message better. I can’t imagine you writing in a style other than yours lol. Less silly? Hahahaha that doesnt sound right :p

Thank you that truly make me happy<3 you know you are the person who taught me the most about poetry ;)

I’m all for having someone correct my spelling too lol. So you’re saying to stay true to ourselves and styles, no matter what!!!

I confess to you, that I do get afraid sometimes lol. And that does make sense Luce and it sounds very much like you!!! I mean that in a good way :)

I do remember that we both used to focus on language, but I think we both do much less of that now, we just write :)

IMO it’s not easy to be satisfied with what you write, and that’s kinda what keeps us writing, isn’t it? Because don’t you feel satisfied when you let something out while writing, then the moment you read it that satisfaction disappears ? Maybe we won’t fully get there, maybe we should just accept that.

Maybe I make no sense too lol!!

Also I’m not looking for anything, I’m only trying to make the main forums more active in a diverse way; more than just challenges. And also I’m not making this about myself.

One more thing I thought I mentioned above, when I posted this thread.

Do you write anything besides poetry?

Nice thread, Star!
I read your link, Luce and found it very interesting. Do we write for us or for others? If I were writing a private diary, then this would be for me, but the umbrella of 'creative writing' is surely meant to be read/experienced by others? My fuel for writing is essentially feedback. My fragile ego needs it! Do I want constructive criticism? Yes, but do I know that us creative sorts, as i just mentioned have fragile egos. I forum where we can discuss our views and share what works and what doesn't has always been available here. Art, is like beauty, it is the eye of the beholder. One person may appreciate it on a level that the writer had never intended. Does this make the poem invalid? No, as soon as you post your words then it is in the public domain and open to an array of opinions.

Am I happy with my writing? I am forever tweaking, reworking and often do this to the detriment of the poem. I simply cannot help it! It is the perfectionist in me. Lucky him, i hear you say! :) I joined a poetry community to learn and still do. I read lots on here and by others and am constantly inspired. We have a broad palette, so we can express ourselves in countless ways. My recent poem was, for me, unusual, in the fact that I had no idea what I was going to write about. I just knew I wanted it to read smoothly. By having no agenda my subconscious took front stage and, to be honest, it felt freeing. As I read it now, i can see that it is influenced, on the whole, by current affairs. What someone else may get from this could be different all together. That is the beauty of poetry, isn't it.

“Maybe we won’t fully get there, maybe we should just accept that.”

^ yeah, I think I came to accept it when I wrote the poem, “The feeder of our souls”

“ Also I’m not looking for anything, I’m only trying to make the main forums more active in a diverse way”

— hehe then you are looking for something and that’s making the forums more active per se ;)

“ And also I’m not making this about myself.”
— true, I sensed that your intention is to create more participation. I am just jumping in to help with that and tossing some ideas. . .

Great thread! I think the reason why people say to read more when you're trying to improve your own writing is that you should start to explore more writing, especially writing that you normally don't gravitate towards! You might find something that you like, or get exposed to something you don't like, and you'll slowly start looking at the structure of that writing subconsciously, and for writing that you do like, you might come back to over and over again and find new things about it, whether it's how the writer uses meter or don't, or how they structured it or didn't, the flow of the writing, if they employed literary devices or not, if they're descriptive or not - what they're descriptive of. There is much you can learn from reading, because when you're writing, the possibilities are endless. But you're right there is a point of diminishing returns, and you do have to write, to "get better". That said, I think there's nothing wrong with emulating poems or poets you love, in fact you should. I've done that over the course of the years, and still do that. I'll blend the voices of poets I love into my own, if that makes sense.

Constructive criticism is great, and needed! But it should be taken in doses, someone might not always like the way you like and might nitpick about that, and that's okay, you're just not their cup of tea, doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with your poetry or writing. But I guess that's up to the person giving the criticism, they should be able to understand that styles of poetry vary and comment on things that wont affect that. There should be a balance.

Personally speaking, I'm never 100% happy with what I write, but I'll arrive at the point I realize I should stop writing/editing and move forward. Otherwise, I'd probably tinker with a poem until it resembles nothing like the original draft forever, and never post. I also use writing as a means of processing emotions and stuff like that, so that also helps me prompt to move away from whatever I'm working on. I've written short-stories here and there but I should probably explore more of what writing has to offer.

I vaguely remember those debate battles! That would be neat to start up again, I think :p

When I was in the university, I took a creative writing class with a professor who every class we’d argue if we write for others or ourselves. He’d always tell me what we share is written for others and not ourselves. It doesnt matter what our opinion on that piece of writing is. I was so against that. I believe even if we write for others, we have to be true to ourselves. I personally write because it makes me feel good however good or bad it is.

It’s sooo interesting when something is written and interpreted in so many ways.

Isn’t it good to be a perfectionist when it comes to writing?

Your post is good!

Oooops you’re right I am looking for something :p

I get that your trying to help, I just dont want anyone else to get me wrong ^_^

“Do you write anything besides poetry?“

Hmm anything besides poetry?

Well, Uhmm, as you may or may not know... to me poetry are written thoughts ... so I guess the answer to that would be no because short stories are poetry, essays are poetry, right now I’m writing poetry.... but obviously, this poetry is of bad quality.

A long time ago, I was thinking about someone who is a carpenter. His profession is to build and repair structures made out of wood, right? So, i thought, I can build and repair something made of wood, then I can call myself a carpenter. I don’t do it for profit but I’m a carpenter, right? If I continue doing that, I will eventually get better and better. The quality of my work will improve over time. Then if the quality is high, I could perhaps do it for profit? But Regardless, I will still be a carpenter because I can build and repair something made out of wood. (Not the best quality though)

Most often, whatever one does as a profession is our title per se. But Here is the thing, i call myself a poet, however, being a poet is not my profession. I don’t get paid for being a poet. Being a poet is my hobby. So since it’s not my profession, should I not call myself a poet? Then what am I?

—- may be my ego is doing the writing

Thats so cool Mark, and you’re right that makes sense. Reading isnt my strong point though. You also gave me an idea for a challenge !!!!

Constructive criticism not only should be taken in doses but also given in my opinion, many times it’s a two way thing,

“ I also use writing as a means of processing emotions and stuff like that, so that also helps me prompt to move away from whatever I'm working on.”
^
That’s the case for many, that’s why I said even when we write for others to read we should find what we’re looking for in writing :)

I’m sorry but the end part of your post made me laugh, I want to have a talk with you ego, the way she thinks is so interesting!!

But then if I’m unemployed or employed in something else other than my original profession. Would I not call myself a poet, journalist, engineer, biologist, chemist, counselor or whatever it is?

Just because you’re not going in the direction of that profession, doesnt take away from the fact that you a carpenter and a poet! You’ve done that for a long time, enough for you to be a poet :)

Well... Constructive criticism I think is the best way to improve, though I'm not much good at leaving it - or listening to it, lol.

I write short stories and longer books, sometimes leaflets on random things! I'm not sure if a diary counts, but if so, then that too! :)

I’m not that good at leaving it either !!

Maybe we could read your short stories sometime :) I think writing in diary is writing. Any form of writing helps us improve I believe!

Star, that's interesting you had a creative writing class at university and was told that. We can grow as writers and still be true to ourselves and I think that's key. Or at least find a balance between the structure/technical aspects of poetry and whether you are emotionally satisfied with it or not. If you gain anything emotionally from it, whether that be relief, peace, validation, etc. I also took a creative writing class at university and I remember it fondly. My professor was a slam poet in the city and his exercises got us to open up and write about what matters to us. We did a lot of freewriting, and worked on metaphors that held emotion for us. We read them out loud to the class, which was only a dozen or so people. I don't remember being scared or anxious, because we ALL were being vulnerable and there was no judgment. Every single person had their own style, and we offered different ideas to make that poem stronger, if the format could be altered or they could play around with line breaks.

Constructive criticism: some people love and hope to receive it, some people are probably indifferent to it. Unless a poet specifically says that they don't want feedback, in which case I'd honor that, I'll give suggestions if I have any. I think that we can continuously learn and evolve, especially in this community, but the beauty of writing something that is your own, is that you hold the reins. Whether you feel that poem is complete in your eyes, that it doesn't matter how anyone else views it, or if you're hesitant and think it's unfinished. I also think of constructive criticism as nothing personal against the poet, if the tone seems super critical, but something that at least should be heard first before the author decides if they want to disregard it or not.

Generally, I'm "satisfied" to a degree. It's therapy. Being able to pen something is a step closer to processing it, even if there's not immediate closure. Lately, I've had more and more poems saved in drafts, because I don't want them to be one-dimensional and feel they can be developed further. Other times, the full range of emotion is there in the moment, and if I don't capture it all in that one go, I've lost it. I can't force it again.

I've started, never really finished, a few short stories. Mostly silly things. As a teenager, I had lots of story ideas, over dozens, and would introduce characters only to abandon them weeks later. A few years ago when work was slow, I wrote about a witch and included magic powers and my co-workers in the story. When I was let go due to COVID, I re-visited the story hastily, and added new characters to represent the new co-workers then sent it to my boss. He enjoyed it! Also, out of boredom and not having much work this past summer, I started a story about two beagles who are brothers. They traveled back in time to meet dinosaurs lol.

It'd be cool to do more "workshops" here. On specific things or themes we need more practice on. I'm weak on dialogue. Reading comes in handy because I can evaluate how realistic the conversations are and their flow. I'm also not great with action sequences. It's amazing to read fantasy novels and see all the work the authors put into world-building and making the action feel engaging and not drawn out or confusing.

I took several classes actually, there was something called a minor and I chose creative writing, though it’s not related to my major at all. Sadly, I never got to take a poetry class. I was told so many things and sometimes nothing at all which is funny. It must’ve been fun MA, I’m sure you’ve learned a lot. It’s brave of you to read what you write, I can never do that >.<

It’s so interesting to read how you guys feel about your poetry. It is therapeutic, I agree. The worst thing ever when you lose what’s in your mind!!

I’m curious to what your stories are like. By any chance are your latest poems related to them?

A workshop would be sooo fun!!!

What was/is your major (if I can ask and if you feel like sharing)? I was going to minor in creative writing as well! It's funny because I had a creative writing class and a journalism class. My communications counselor said I would probably hate one and love the other. I ended up dropping journalism because I was not as invested, and it wasn't as freeing as creative writing lol. There were lots of deadlines and word restrictions and word counts ahh :O

Yes, agree about losing what's in your mind. My computer went through a thing of randomly shutting down and there were some issues with it, so I would sometimes lose the document... let's just say I try to be way more careful now. There is no frustration like losing the exact phrasing.

Nope, not related to my latest poems, though that's interesting you thought that! Some of it is prose or prose based from dreams. The actual stories are much fewer now, as I used to write about mermaids/fantasy when I was younger, then apocalypses more recently. I'd like, someday, to either write mostly non-fiction but change the names/specifics rather than write something completely fiction that I may have a harder time connecting with. I have an issue with not following up with characters, and the passion and ideas for them are often abandoned.

It was Biology. My counselor told me to choose something related, but I ignored her lol I ended up with the two things I love the most thats what mattered at that time. I never tried journalism but I get what you mean, creative writing was sooo freeing especially because what I studied was intense :!!

Then let me tell you what I do, I have an email dedicated to all the poems I write, I send them to that email. There is no way I know of that would let me lose them :)

It's because they feel like there is a deeper story behind them. Writing non-fiction has its own charms, so go for it ^_^

Very neat! I think that's what should definitely matter, pursuing the things you love. And thanks for the idea of the email, that's clever!

I've always read a lot and really believe that reading certainly increases your vocabulary. I didn't personally start writing poetry until I was in my late forties and wasn't really sure how to start I just needed something to do to keep my mind occupied and poetry was manageable. I initiall presumed that all you had to do was write out a draft poem then go back and tweak it until it rhymed and made sense but I found that there was so much more to it.

Reading and critiquing as many poems as possible really helped me get to grips with the different styles, beats, what works and what doesn't really helped me develop my writing skills and explore my own style of writing because the more you put into something the more you get out of it.

Genuinely given constructive critism and feedback is very useful because it gives the writer a feel for where they can improve and also what the readers are taking from the poems but not everyone feels comfortable receiving critism in public. So sometimes it's nice when it's delivered via private message.

Star what a great way of storing your poems Thank you for sharing xx

Lucero, may I just say I agree with you. It isn't whether you are paid or not that makes you a poet. If you write poetry, you are a poet, simple as that. I think the idea that you are not a poet until it is something you are making a living out of condemns poetry into a hollow abyss. In fact, there are plently of paid artists who I would say represent the complete antithesis of true art. There is no passion, feeling or genuine content - they churn their stuff out for the money, and once that happens, the beauty becomes diluted if that makes sense.
As for myself, I have never even explored the idea of writing to publish. My own fragile ego simply couldn't cope with the rejection! :) but does posting on here mean I write cor others? Not sure. I've written poetry since I was 12 or 13, and didn't join this site until I was 35 and this was the first place anyone else had read my stuff. Primarily, it's for me but do i like to know others enjoy it and maybe get something from it somehow? Of course, and I'm not sure anyone can truly say otherwise, or why post to begin with? Art should be enjoyed and viewed by others and yes, critiqued too.

I used to be really self-critical of what I wrote, and to a degree, other people's work too. Loads of lecturers and writers told me 'all writers read', and being young and cynical, I thought it was just a way of motivating us to read all the literature they chucked at us, but workshops with other writers, and reading other 'amateur' poets' work really improved my writing. I think! They had such interesting comments and thoughts, and it was inspiring. When I'm not reading, I'm hardly ever writing either.

I enjoy giving constructive criticism, I really do. I don't consider myself an expert, and I don't think my opinions should be considered any more or less meaningful than any one else's, but I honestly think it helps. In fact, I'd go as far as saying it's essential for technical growth because you'll very rarely be a decent critic of your own writing.

If I had more time, I'd leave more comments on here. I welcome constructive criticism on my own writing too, as I know there are always things I overlook. I tend to write poetry really quickly, and if I don't finish it that day, then I delete it. I feel it's important to capture the moment when I'm in the moment, or it'll never be 'satisfying' for me.

P&Q should really have more discussions and workshops. It's been really interesting reading all of your viewpoints. I do promise to be more active on here when I can. :)

It would be really cool if people sent some poems anonymously to an account each week, and they were all posted on the message boards to pass comment on!

It’s very nice to know everyones story, how they started writing. How did it feel when you started writing?

I know very well that reading is helpful, it’s very inspiring too. I cant read for long periods of time so i try looking for other options.

What you said about constructive criticism is very true. I think it depends on who is giving it and whose receiving it.

I’ve been using this way to save what I write from eight years ago, I have writes that are so cringey I dont want to read them lol

It’s an interesting point you brought up Ben, publishing. Though I think you’ll do well if the book is well made!

“ Primarily, it's for me but do i like to know others enjoy it and maybe get something from it somehow? Of course, and I'm not sure anyone can truly say otherwise, or why post to begin with? Art should be enjoyed and viewed by others and yes, critiqued too.”
^
That’s so true!!!

Do you know that your constructive criticism is an eye opener? You alway bring up points I’ve never thought of before, yes I dont always adjust what I’ve written. But I keep that in mind for others when it’s fitting, its very helpful!!

The account idea sounds fun!!

In lieu of an account, someone can set up a a google form and have anonymous submissions turned on, truly anonymous that way :) I think it'd be a great idea.