I will as you all know defend myself

To my friend jordan...

"You must be right wing" ?? If by me wanting to protect our constitution the way it is written in depth. With all that is written to protect the rights of a free society? Then I suppose I am right wing if that satisfies Left wing description. Which of course it doesn't. I'd like however to be considered conservative. Conservative for the fact of the old Native American saying, "it is the wise the one that stays one step behind to be one step ahead".

Using history is a refresher course for those who have been cheated out of histories details. Looking in to the past shows where we are now. America has never ever conquered to colonize or imprison but has defeated and fought tyranny and oppression and danger to its own well being. All the talk about oil and dictating is hogwash. We have gained no increase in oil or control of oil from any mid-east nation. OPEC is in control of every drop. Was before wars and remain after.

Afghanistan was invaded why? Because after refusal by the leaders (the Taliban) and their insistent of protecting documented evidence of terrorist training centers and the worlds information that pin pointed to Bin Laden (admittedly himself. We with the cooperation of surrounding Islamic and Arab countries decided to take action to rid this disease called Al-Qaeda. Iraq was invaded for violating all 16 agreed to terms for a seize fire. Seize fire was given under those terms. They were to have a no fly zone that threatened. They repeatedly violated. They were to destroy all chemical and the missiles that could carry them. They repeatedly delayed inspections locked areas and were engaged in moving weapons. They even threw inspectors out of the country 4 or 5 times. They were to destroy all long range weapons. They were to only engage in oil sales for humane conditions such as medical, and commodities needed for survival. They made cash deals with rogue countries. They engaged in constant threats of using chemical weapons. Reality and past knowledge of them using chems on Kurds were an indication they would use them again. Up to the day Saddem Housien had to run and hide he threatened to use them. Never was there doubt by anyone, not our congress, not our Senate or any representative investigators. With exception of a couple of Iraqi sympathizers.

The world is much to complicated to draw a black and white vision. We offer only the tools for freedom. It is up to the people and their leaders to decide. Iraq for the first time in generations had won the right to vote and elect. Afghanistan the same. Libya, Egypt though questionable also still receives as do most middle east countries, millions if not billions of American tax payer dollars. We should at least have recognition the fact.

Real live is not a philosophy or a whimsical thought to be put in place. Real live is filled with diversity. And with it the cold hard fact there are those who can, and those who can not and all the in-betweens. Real live is complex. I like total freedom so I vote and support to that reality. I can because I live in a country that allows me that gift. When it comes to reality there is no room for mystics or theorists or negativities. I am reality, as is the young lady in the mountains of Pakistan who recently had her feet removed for her husband "suspected her of cheating". I will support any and all action to stop that kind of thinking...for I am real.
to reaba or what ever...Yes I did write that...and if you read deeply...its that fact that we are there. Trying to stop the worldly death march of the Islamic whackos.
to those who think me shalow thinker...hey its ok you think like that.
to those who think we steel oil,??? ever hear of OPEC...they control 100% of mid east oil. Probably since 1956 as I remember. pssst...want to really know whos sucking you people dry? its OPEC. how come they're all zillion-airs and majority of asians are in squalor? eh?

That's all for today folks I have to go to work now...(that's another story)

Just like I said Dan
I don't blame you
I pitty you

The effects of embedded journalism is everywhere I see in your post
The fact that you're desensitized and dehumanized to a certain ethnic entity is very visible, you come to us with the attiude that outside of America, thrre lives lesser people!!No-you quite simply just dont care about the death tol in Iraq! You Just care to savior the image of an imperialist war Mongol government that have ventured unquestioned to more than two dozens of countries in the last 50 Years alone.

So there is no point in trying to reason with you
I would urge you to check a documentary made by John pilger
Maybe someday somehow you will aquire a bit of the morality and sanity needed to understand the depth of your oblivaince.
Good luck in that quest, for god knows you need it

I don't wish to engage in any upcoming political conversation with anyone

I don't wish to engage in any upcoming political conversation with anyone

^
now that's something I was waiting, for, I hope so XD lol.

I second nana's remark .....i actually just yawned when i read that lol

*Edit...

Don't really want to keep this neverending discussion going any more.

Im very much a fan of tea.....green jasmine tea mmmmmmm it is very refreshing on a summers day with just a little sugar :-)

Next time I'm about to post anything politics related
I'm going to sing the spider pig song
Or maybe heal the word by Mj in a very very Loud
Unpleasant pitch

Hahahahha BENNY is it the one we drank last night ??
Rabea, chant for us lovely :] as we sip the sips of the sippy

Sipping the sweet sippy of sipdom,only to find that the sips have run dry :-(

Hahhaha or only to WAKE UP :( you know what I mean...
ice ?

^^^^

A little love scene in the middle of something else....I like it ..earl grey for me please :)

Lol mmmmm earl grey is also good, does one sugar hellon or not?

Tea is most definatly the finest of beverages, its calming effect on the body is second to none, the time it takes to make and brew leaves one time to contemplate the finer things in life, or perchance to write a little stanza or two whiles the tea infuses :-)

Wow Hellon I am impressed earl grey! That would be my choice as well!.

And I agree Benn we should write about that ^_^ my dear

Got to be leafs mind you...I'm not big on them tea bags you know....I'll bring the strainer....no sugar or milk....real tea should be drank as it comes :)

Lol hellon is a "purest" lmao

But i have to agree on the bag thing...it was an assult on tea when they invented the bag lol

Ok i need to put the kettle on lmao

Hope it's not an electric kettle....not only am I a purist...I'm a bit of a greeny too!!!!

Hellon, you sound just like an Australian copy of my mother ! Lol

I have no idea what are you waiting for in the 1st place, do you want her to think we're sting people! :P

edit:

HAHAHAHAHAH omg hellon.

Lol nooo hellon its steam powered lmao!!!

I have no idea what are you waiting for in the 1st place, do you want her to think we're sting people

^^^^

Eh? I'm just waiting for the kettle to boil haha!!!! What do you mean...sting people??? LOL!

and...please do not pour the water over the leaves just after boiling the kettle....the water has to rest for at least 2 mins...

I don't understand anything from this conversation what so ever

Lmao something is not right with me today, I keep doing this.

STINGY people, tight ones :P he's waiting for you to leave to serve the tea.

and lol

.the water has to rest for at least 2 mins...

^
I think you ARE my mom! aren't you ? hidden identity ..hhmmm

Hahaha Rabea...it's just tea gathering :P as we listen to this sweet debate

Stingy...yip...I know that word...(almost said Yap..LMAO)

You can't be stingy with tea....if you're serious about drinking it....after the kettle boils ( and I note that it's not electic) ...you then pour the water over the leaves and let that defuse for another two minutes....gives you lots of time to find the biscuits/scones that were to be served up don't you think?

OMG!! You people having a tea party and no one invited me!!
@_@!

Has anybody watched the movie or read its novel 'Love in the Time of Cholera'?

-shrugs-

Not again!!!!!!!!

aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhh

Hellon, your formalities would put mum & you in a club together.

Before she died she was horrified to witness me nuking a cup of water with a tea BAG sitting inthe water as it was heating up.

I'm very sorry to those who don't want to see this debate run on any longer, but it was directed at me...so:

Good job, Dan. A useful and informative post - exactly the opposite of your last. I hope you feel better.

"Afghanistan was invaded why? Because after refusal by the leaders (the Taliban) and their insistent of protecting documented evidence of terrorist training centers and the worlds information that pin pointed to Bin Laden (admittedly himself. We with the cooperation of surrounding Islamic and Arab countries decided to take action to rid this disease called Al-Qaeda."

So then why don't the US troops ever fly in to intervene terrorist activity in any other country where it is active? The rest of your post suggests that invading Afghanistan was done out of benevolence to protect the world and allow piece, yet the 'war' was stretched out and then ended up in Iraq...while Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with the war as we all know. Troops were sent into these countries because of two emotions - fear and aggression. There is absolutely no way that you can contest this.

If the US was so worried about protecting the innocence of the world, they'd put down their goddamn weapons and help His Holiness The Dalai Lama spread his word.

"The world is much to complicated to draw a black and white vision. We offer only the tools for freedom. It is up to the people and their leaders to decide. Iraq for the first time in generations had won the right to vote and elect. Afghanistan the same. Libya, Egypt though questionable also still receives as do most middle east countries, millions if not billions of American tax payer dollars. We should at least have recognition the fact."

Are you kidding me? THE TOOLS OF FREEDOM. Your tools of freedom are actually tools of oppression. Do you think forcing someone to do something by gunpoint is giving them choice?

Here, look at this.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/friendlyfire/fogofwar.html

Explain to me, in detail, why Canadian soldiers, US soldiers, New Zealand troops, etc. needed to be killed for freedom?

Granted, these were accidental deaths, but these casualties as well as all of the other countless ones, are just another example of why war is such a reckless mistake.

Get your head out of the past sir. I really do appreciate that you hold the past as a valuable piece of information, but this is not the past. Things are different now. Human rights are at an all time high all over the world. We need to push for change because our world is stuck in a terrible hole - and while it might be great for you and your generation, it doesn't work well for the up-and-coming leaders of the world.

Of course, the world IS going to change...maybe faster than you think, whether people with a conservative point of view help or not. It just makes it slightly more difficult.

I'll leave you with this quote - it explains why you and I can't handle each other:

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains." - Winston Churchill

-----------------------------------------
EDIT:

Whoawhoawhoawhoa I just caught this. How did I miss it?

"America has never ever conquered to colonize or imprison"

AHHHAHAHAHAHA. What about all of the Native Americans that have been slaughtered because they wouldn't adhere to the ways of modern society? It was the same thing - ultimatum. "You can come and live like us white folk, or we can kill you and your families."

I don't even know what to say, bro.

I am no longer a fan of political posts, but everyone else who made these off the wall comments not pertaining to the original topic, I find it very rude.

I get not wanting to go around and around, and stating that and not involving yourself is one thing. But then you can simple remove yourself from the thread and not go on about tea and such. It's disrespectful.

If a thread gets derailed, that's one thing. But threads don't usually derail after one post.

Derailing a thread which continues an endless & ultimately fruitless debate consisting primarily of chest beating and chauvinism from most participants is itself a political statement.

Quoting a protest sign from my own era:

"What if they gave a war & no one came?"

Hahahaha Larry I love that; true. you no bet are a good law man. you know what I mean

Recommended reading:

http://terrorism.about.com/b/2007/02/02/war-in-afghanistan-how-did-the-us-get-there-again.htm

Unfortunately, many of our younger members were either 7-15 years old to really appreciate the horrifying feelings of an American or the entire world on 9/11.

"Derailing a thread which continues an endless & ultimately fruitless debate consisting primarily of chest beating and chauvinism from most participants is itself a political statement."

Truth.

^Dear lord. Get over it! We are feeling for you, Americans. We are not against your public. We love public. I love public, hate the government yes but that is excused because it killed my father. And it's killing us everyday.

I was saddened and horrified by 9/11, but that won't make me hold a gun against my country because it's dying too for the sake of that event. Wtf don't you understand!?
Gr.

Edited: sorry Jordan, my comment was directed the Lonelys way.

DAN... DAN... DAN... dear Dan

"Afghanistan was invaded why? Because after refusal by the leaders (the Taliban) and their insistent of protecting documented evidence of terrorist training centers and the worlds information that pin pointed to Bin Laden (admittedly himself. We with the cooperation of surrounding Islamic and Arab countries decided to take action to rid this disease called Al-Qaeda. Iraq was invaded for violating all 16 agreed to terms for a seize fire. Seize fire was given under those terms. They were to have a no fly zone that threatened. They repeatedly violated. They were to destroy all chemical and the missiles that could carry them. They repeatedly delayed inspections locked areas and were engaged in moving weapons. They even threw inspectors out of the country 4 or 5 times. They were to destroy all long range weapons. They were to only engage in oil sales for humane conditions such as medical, and commodities needed for survival. They made cash deals with rogue countries. They engaged in constant threats of using chemical weapons. Reality and past knowledge of them using chems on Kurds were an indication they would use them again. Up to the day Saddem Housien had to run and hide he threatened to use them. Never was there doubt by anyone, not our congress, not our Senate or any representative investigators. With exception of a couple of Iraqi sympathizers."

^
^
^
^
^

I Laughed my freakin ass off when I read this. You are so blinded.... I can't even.... I can't.... Are you brainwashed to this extent????????

To begin with here's a "left" wings view of why we are in Iraq.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcvgAMnMne0

# two; Afghan was not willy nilly invaded to just wipe out simple terrorists. It was to wipe out the terrorists that blew the WTC. Hahhaahha.???? (Sic) and to try and make hard if not impossible to have it happen again. A promise to the American people and shared by 65 nations as allies in battle. Of which has had terrorists the same.
We're not to go back and draw on history for some reason. History only draws on at what stage and reasoning for. We are not to go to other countries that are and have been targets of unrelenting terrorist body bombers, assassins. We are supposed to blame America for trains being blown up in Germany, Russia, and England +++. We are to Blame America for all and everything related to violence and death un-mass

I am the dumb-ass even though all who argue use rhetoric, innuendos, false reports, endless propaganda repeats that were spoon fed zoo parrots babbling on and on with repeated brainwashing that never reaches a point of why, where or what and how. In the meanwhile countries continue to slaughter their own by thousands and thousands every week, every day. Never reaches the point of answering with solvable conclusions only a decided fear of truth that could cause conclusion if blame would be in prospective and not forced on illusion. Most on here weren't even born when terrorists spread their wings into every corner of the globe. No one seems to remember or close ears when threats of world dominance are pronounced. No one remembers or close their ears to not hear when a proclamation of elimination is announced.
"America invades countries (Jordan again)and to say they don't colonize is untrue, they colonized and killed all the Native Americans" I am 1/5 native American Jordan , they missed my family... shhh Besides reaching back to distorted history the story of America is not completely accurate. (Another debate). Let's not go there here.
to others,
The thread is of a subject. If you don't want to participate don't come in here. We are consistently told by mods to be courteous and non offensive...and yet... if you run out of defense to your plight...go read...if not interested...go do something else.

to the boy who laughs his freaken ass off and goes on to tell me I'm brainwashed..... can you clearify your position its a little incoharent..???

Dare i say but .........anyone for a biscuit ?

^A biscuit would have been nice 20 minutes ago while I was still reading.

Just a little reminder, keep the thread courteous please.

I don't know what incoharent means, but anyway...

1- obviously, you are totally brainwashed by your western media, controlled by the zionist lobby which works its ass up to blemish and photoshop and edit and cut to liken your government to some angels or even... God!

2- you are trading our blood with the lamest of excuses... ie; to every massacre happening, you are digging and digging to find some angelic factors behind it..... behind why your politicians are invading our homelands, killing millions, and stealing our natural resources......

Dan........ even the blind and the deaf knows everything you are saying is NONSENSICAL, irrelevant, and doesn't quite verify any lame excuse. So forgive me for saying this....

stop trying.

Enough for the peace pigeons that your government have because when they dump shit over us, it turns out it's not SHIT... but BLOOD & BONES & BOMBS & more warrrr.......

Your peace, your claims of saving the world from terrorism and planting comfort, wealth, and happiness, your shining globalization slogans are nothing but.......................

LIES....

and what's more fun is that you believe your own lies.

Dan........ even the blind and the deaf knows everything you are saying is NONSENSICAL, irrelevant, and doesn't quite verify any lame excuse. So forgive me for saying this....
^^

I'm not blind...nor am I deaf....and...also I don't believe everything Donald has said in both threads is NONSENSICAL..most of it I'd agree with to be honest.

The rest of your comment well...I'm not even American and I find it quite offensive....

Why am I back here BTW????